I'm in the market for a V8V but my question is unusual..
Discussion
Good morning all.
As per the title, I'm looking at purchasing a V8 Vantage. I'd promised myself one by the time I was 40 having driven a couple as a Ferrari apprentice back in the mists of time when they were brand new and (in my opinion) leagues ahead of the 360/F430 for build quality, cabin ambience, sound and class and somehow the relative lack of performace made them feel more fun.
Well here I am with a modest budget to purchase outright and probably looking at a 4.3. From what I've read the later 4.7s are a little more firmly sprung. I've got other vehicles if I want razor's edge handling rather than simply "fun" and 40bhp is neither here nor there when even my old Discovery has 500bhp. If I really find it's not quick enough I'll supercharge it.
I had an E39 M5 which I bought as a stupid extravagance/sensible investment. I'd intended to keep it 6 months but kept it 6 years and pretty much doubled my money on it when I sold it.
I'm intending to keep a V8V for a little while and attempt to if not make money, at least not lose any.
So, my questions...
What are they like to work on?
I'm fairly handy with the spanners so I'll be doing any work on it. In my experience special tools aren't usually a problem as they can be made or improvised. I can weld and have machine tools such as a lathe etc.
My main concern is dealer level diagnostics - I've got some fairly high end diag gear but I do begrudge having to pay dealers when my kit won't read stuff. Does anyone have real world experience of this?
Manual V Sportshift... I realise the actual driving experience is somewhat subjective. When first faced with an F355 F1 as an 18 year old apprentice, I hated the idea of flappy paddles, I was a manual kid through and through.. then I drove one and really enjoyed it.
I realise different manufacturers means they aren't directly comparable but I'm not going to dismiss the Sportshift until I've driven a few.
My concern is regarding clutch learning - do they need dealer diag to do this? do they require dynamic balancing? I ask as I assume I'll have to put a clutch in at some point.
Is there anything I should be aware of when going to look at them? I figure if a dealer won't let me see it on the ramp then they have something to hide...
Any information would be useful, from the trivial to the arcane.
Thanks
As per the title, I'm looking at purchasing a V8 Vantage. I'd promised myself one by the time I was 40 having driven a couple as a Ferrari apprentice back in the mists of time when they were brand new and (in my opinion) leagues ahead of the 360/F430 for build quality, cabin ambience, sound and class and somehow the relative lack of performace made them feel more fun.
Well here I am with a modest budget to purchase outright and probably looking at a 4.3. From what I've read the later 4.7s are a little more firmly sprung. I've got other vehicles if I want razor's edge handling rather than simply "fun" and 40bhp is neither here nor there when even my old Discovery has 500bhp. If I really find it's not quick enough I'll supercharge it.
I had an E39 M5 which I bought as a stupid extravagance/sensible investment. I'd intended to keep it 6 months but kept it 6 years and pretty much doubled my money on it when I sold it.
I'm intending to keep a V8V for a little while and attempt to if not make money, at least not lose any.
So, my questions...
What are they like to work on?
I'm fairly handy with the spanners so I'll be doing any work on it. In my experience special tools aren't usually a problem as they can be made or improvised. I can weld and have machine tools such as a lathe etc.
My main concern is dealer level diagnostics - I've got some fairly high end diag gear but I do begrudge having to pay dealers when my kit won't read stuff. Does anyone have real world experience of this?
Manual V Sportshift... I realise the actual driving experience is somewhat subjective. When first faced with an F355 F1 as an 18 year old apprentice, I hated the idea of flappy paddles, I was a manual kid through and through.. then I drove one and really enjoyed it.
I realise different manufacturers means they aren't directly comparable but I'm not going to dismiss the Sportshift until I've driven a few.
My concern is regarding clutch learning - do they need dealer diag to do this? do they require dynamic balancing? I ask as I assume I'll have to put a clutch in at some point.
Is there anything I should be aware of when going to look at them? I figure if a dealer won't let me see it on the ramp then they have something to hide...
Any information would be useful, from the trivial to the arcane.
Thanks
JohnG1 said:
Hello!
Welcome!
Don't do that. Unless you want a grenade engine...
It's not designed for pressure charging. And it'll go boom unless you do a lot of work.
See previous threads ad nauseam here!
Hello and thank you!Welcome!
Don't do that. Unless you want a grenade engine...
It's not designed for pressure charging. And it'll go boom unless you do a lot of work.
See previous threads ad nauseam here!
I said that a little tongue in cheek. I know a reasonable amount about forced induction. I wouldnt just bodge on any old blower and hope for the best.
In all likelihood I'd leave it standard as the circa £15k I'd end up spending could be better spent on another motorbike or something.you can download a workshop manual and everything else you need
diagnostics - you can do most with a £200 foxwell obd tool, you may already have similar
gearbox, I prefer the manual over sportshift. Much of the benefit for me of an auto is easy town driving and the SS is not a real smooth auto, its a press button manual. So I stayed with manual.
Clutches are a bit random, you can never tell. Ive had over 73k miles out of one clutch, then my current car has had 3 clutches in 62k so far. I will upgrade to a twin plate whenever it goes again.
There are proven upgrade paths out there for the 4.3 to bring it up to 4.7 performance for a few grand, although you do start to think if you are performance hungry, then it makes sense to stretch to an early 4.7 in the first place.
Overall they are very reliable cars and its rare bad luck if you get one that has a lot of issues. Most the running costs are consumables that are no different really to any big premium car. If you DIY or use independent garages they are cheaper to run than a hot Audi etc.
Service history and consumable condition is everything when buying. You dont want to buy a car that needs a service, tyres, brakes etc in the first 6 months otherwise you can soon end up spending a couple of grand.
Good luck with the search
diagnostics - you can do most with a £200 foxwell obd tool, you may already have similar
gearbox, I prefer the manual over sportshift. Much of the benefit for me of an auto is easy town driving and the SS is not a real smooth auto, its a press button manual. So I stayed with manual.
Clutches are a bit random, you can never tell. Ive had over 73k miles out of one clutch, then my current car has had 3 clutches in 62k so far. I will upgrade to a twin plate whenever it goes again.
There are proven upgrade paths out there for the 4.3 to bring it up to 4.7 performance for a few grand, although you do start to think if you are performance hungry, then it makes sense to stretch to an early 4.7 in the first place.
Overall they are very reliable cars and its rare bad luck if you get one that has a lot of issues. Most the running costs are consumables that are no different really to any big premium car. If you DIY or use independent garages they are cheaper to run than a hot Audi etc.
Service history and consumable condition is everything when buying. You dont want to buy a car that needs a service, tyres, brakes etc in the first 6 months otherwise you can soon end up spending a couple of grand.
Good luck with the search
I was told the other day about a trader who had bought fifteen track experience cars, including quite a few 4.3 Vantages.
Probably not the best example to buy, but I did wonder whether it might be difficult to know about the history, unless the previous registration shows a business name.
Dewi 2 said:
I was told the other day about a trader who had bought fifteen track experience cars, including quite a few 4.3 Vantages.
Probably not the best example to buy, but I did wonder whether it might be difficult to know about the history, unless the previous registration shows a business name.
sidewaysste said:
Ooh, Where might I find a workshop manual? That would help massively even pre purchase.
Official info here, not sure if they are still free, might cost you £10 or £20 to register and download everythinghttps://technicalhub.astonmartin.com/amtis/
An interesting video to watch.
I must admit I find the language and attitude a little distateful, but then being introspective I have been in similar shoes to his and not said anything so maybe I'm just annoed with myself for being too polite?
Technically I agree with what he's saying - FI on an engine that's at 12:1 is just crazy - your mbt will be massively affected by the need to retard timing and dump fuel in. For any serious supercharging effort you'd have to lower compression ratio by at least 1.5 points, but then if you were doing it properly you'd be fitting different pistons as a matter of course.
Valve timing - yes again big overlap, whilst advantageous on an NA car isn't great when FI. I wonder how much of that could be controlled with tuning of the variators (or whatever AM's name for them is?)
The biggie for me is the ECU limiting factors - That's where you start, can you get the ECU to do what you need it to do? can you scale injectors correctly? can you remove any abuse limiters that might get in the way? what type of load sensing can you use? How about throttle tip in? If you can't then how successfully can you integrate a standalone unit into the vehicle wiring architecture?
I must admit that if a kit is retailing for £10K or more, I'd expect the above issues to be addressed.
I must admit I find the language and attitude a little distateful, but then being introspective I have been in similar shoes to his and not said anything so maybe I'm just annoed with myself for being too polite?
Technically I agree with what he's saying - FI on an engine that's at 12:1 is just crazy - your mbt will be massively affected by the need to retard timing and dump fuel in. For any serious supercharging effort you'd have to lower compression ratio by at least 1.5 points, but then if you were doing it properly you'd be fitting different pistons as a matter of course.
Valve timing - yes again big overlap, whilst advantageous on an NA car isn't great when FI. I wonder how much of that could be controlled with tuning of the variators (or whatever AM's name for them is?)
The biggie for me is the ECU limiting factors - That's where you start, can you get the ECU to do what you need it to do? can you scale injectors correctly? can you remove any abuse limiters that might get in the way? what type of load sensing can you use? How about throttle tip in? If you can't then how successfully can you integrate a standalone unit into the vehicle wiring architecture?
I must admit that if a kit is retailing for £10K or more, I'd expect the above issues to be addressed.
That seems an awfully expensive kit to me.
Yes I'm aware bespoke kit isnt cheap to make as explained in one of BR's videos but looking at that kit it appears to use a TVS 'charger and a water injection kit. I don't see any fuel injectors and why wouldn't you include an intercooler or charge cooler?
Water injection, even standalone ecu controlled injection tracking failsafe mode WI is nothing new...
Anyway, this is all getting a little off topic. I'm aware the V8V isn't that fast. If speed were my sole objective I'd buy a Cerbera and fit an LS3.
Yes I'm aware bespoke kit isnt cheap to make as explained in one of BR's videos but looking at that kit it appears to use a TVS 'charger and a water injection kit. I don't see any fuel injectors and why wouldn't you include an intercooler or charge cooler?
Water injection, even standalone ecu controlled injection tracking failsafe mode WI is nothing new...
Anyway, this is all getting a little off topic. I'm aware the V8V isn't that fast. If speed were my sole objective I'd buy a Cerbera and fit an LS3.
Hi,
In answer to your original question, my experiences have been largely positive, very easy to work on and have done some fairly major jobs on my 4.3, haven't needed any special tools so far.
There's a well trodden path for 4.3 power upgrades, cats, remap etc etc.
Foxwell et al can read almost everything, there are two OBD ports, one for engine as you'd expect and one for 'body' the latter covers things like key programming, air bags, door mirror auto fold etc etc and you may have limited ability to set these with anything other than AM kit.
I have a manual so can't comment on the sport shift but I do know that a clutch change on an SS car requires at least a re-learn which I doubt Foxwell etc can do. There are many more knowledgeable people on here who can probably advise better but my dealer believes short clutch life can be attributed to the wrong software set up on SS cars (but he would say that!)
Either way, great car, lot's of fun and easy to maintain - enjoy.
In answer to your original question, my experiences have been largely positive, very easy to work on and have done some fairly major jobs on my 4.3, haven't needed any special tools so far.
There's a well trodden path for 4.3 power upgrades, cats, remap etc etc.
Foxwell et al can read almost everything, there are two OBD ports, one for engine as you'd expect and one for 'body' the latter covers things like key programming, air bags, door mirror auto fold etc etc and you may have limited ability to set these with anything other than AM kit.
I have a manual so can't comment on the sport shift but I do know that a clutch change on an SS car requires at least a re-learn which I doubt Foxwell etc can do. There are many more knowledgeable people on here who can probably advise better but my dealer believes short clutch life can be attributed to the wrong software set up on SS cars (but he would say that!)
Either way, great car, lot's of fun and easy to maintain - enjoy.
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