Re : Porsche Cayman S (987) vs. 718 Cayman T

[RSchneider]

Which of them has the better in-gear instant acceleration? For the typical gap-jumping lane change?

[Richard-G]

RSchneider said:

Which of them has the better in-gear instant acceleration? For the typical gap-jumping lane change?

The 718 has a sports response button that once pressed increases boost, shifts down to a lower gear and puts the pdk in it's most aggressive setting and holds the gear to 7500rpm.

It also has a slug more torque, so I'd say 718. The 30 - 70's certainly suggest so.

[ratty6464]

I had a 718 Cayman T for 48hrs as a courtesy car recently.

The lasting impressions were: massive rear end traction on greasy roads, disappointing numb steering, sound where I had no clue what revs the engine was at, and a very strong and unexpected lunge across the last 1000rpm to the redline.

[PhantomPH]

I know it's been well documented elsewhere, but deactivating the soundaktor in the 718 makes a big difference to the way the engine sounds whilst also removing some of the harsher 'rattling' sounds that can happen at certain revs. It smoothes out the sound across the rev range and makes the experience a lot more pleasant.

I still think my ideal combo would have been the engine (and sound) from my 981CGTS, in the body of my 718CS. Best sound and best looks.

[thelostboy]

Not sure I'd agree with that; I'm not a fan of the flat, featureless look of the 718 from the front.

I think you could make a similar comparison with any 10 year old car versus a new one. The newer the car, the more mechanical grip and less interaction. For 90% of people, 90% of the time, they value speed and grip over steering feel and driver input. I'd venture even to say that even a majority of Pistonheaders don't know the difference between grip and handling.

Anyway, the great news is that the 981 exists. For anyone who bemoans the flat four, there are plenty of still fairly new 981 GTS out there available with warranty.

[Porsche718S]

PhantomPH said:

I know it's been well documented elsewhere, but deactivating the soundaktor in the 718 makes a big difference to the way the engine sounds whilst also removing some of the harsher 'rattling' sounds that can happen at certain revs. It smoothes out the sound across the rev range and makes the experience a lot more pleasant.

I still think my ideal combo would have been the engine (and sound) from my 981CGTS, in the body of my 718CS. Best sound and best looks.

Only in Sport mode...soundaktor is not active otherwise.

[Plate spinner]

thelostboy said:

Not sure I'd agree with that; I'm not a fan of the flat, featureless look of the 718 from the front.

I think you could make a similar comparison with any 10 year old car versus a new one. The newer the car, the more mechanical grip and less interaction. For 90% of people, 90% of the time, they value speed and grip over steering feel and driver input. I'd venture even to say that even a majority of Pistonheaders don't know the difference between grip and handling.

Anyway, the great news is that the 981 exists. For anyone who bemoans the flat four, there are plenty of still fairly new 981 GTS out there available with warranty.

Spot on imo

[greenarrow]

Plate spinner said:

yonex said:

saxy said:

I know the appeal of a cayman/boxster was always in its handling department. But I find it crazy that my Stinger GT that I bought fully loaded for the price of a base 320i, accelerates faster and has a higher top speed. I guess same can be said about golf R's and a35's nowadays. Every time I want to go check out these 2nd hand heros that I once loved, just don't make sense buying unless it's for the manual gearbox and that I have a free extra parking space because a Cayman would have to be someone's 2nd car, and not their only.

A Kia Stinger. What relevance is that?

Since the Boxster launch there have always been faster saloon cars.

They’re not hypercars, they’re entry level mid-engined sports cars that always prioritised good handling & being fun to drive.

This is very true. At launch the original 2.5 was out-accelerated by the Volvo V40 T4. I know which one I'd prefer to drive though!

[deebs]

It's been mentioned above but it's important to note the car in the article is a 987.2, which are typically 2009 onwards, although there is the odd 987.1 on a 09 plate . Visually they don't look too different between .1 and .2 but the engine changes and they design out the earlier issues that afflected the 3.4S. However it's often overlooked that the 2.7 Cayman in 987.1 flavour doesn't really have any issues, making it a relative bargain.

I own a 987.1 2.7 "base" Cayman as they are sometimes referred, oddly the 3.4S car launched first and then the 2.7 "base" model appeared. Mines is a 2008, so more or less the last of the 987.1. It's got a modest output in today's standards, just 245bhp, most of its torque only comes into play beyond 4200RPM and on paper it yawns it's way to 60mph in 5.8 seconds. But I think it's a lovely thing to drive on a sweeping B road. Stick a nice exhaust on there and keep it at 2nd or 3rd gear above 5k revs, the long gearing means it will just go and go, screaming it's way around, even though you're only just above NSL speeds.

It will however be out accelerated off a roundabout by anyone in a modern powerful, diesel. When you drive /buy one you decide if that's important.

I have though never driven a 718, but a back to back drive would be a fun few hours . I couldn't afford to buy any car at the type of money they go for.

[PhantomPH]

Porsche718S said:

PhantomPH said:

I know it's been well documented elsewhere, but deactivating the soundaktor in the 718 makes a big difference to the way the engine sounds whilst also removing some of the harsher 'rattling' sounds that can happen at certain revs. It smoothes out the sound across the rev range and makes the experience a lot more pleasant.

I still think my ideal combo would have been the engine (and sound) from my 981CGTS, in the body of my 718CS. Best sound and best looks.

Only in Sport mode...soundaktor is not active otherwise.

Is there any other mode than sport? Ha ha.

[homerdog]

Plate spinner said:

Ooh you’re defensive aren’t you hun

At least he doesn't come across like a typical Pistonheads idiot.

[2Btoo]

deebs said:

It's been mentioned above but it's important to note the car in the article is a 987.2, which are typically 2009 onwards, although there is the odd 987.1 on a 09 plate . Visually they don't look too different between .1 and .2 but the engine changes and they design out the earlier issues that afflected the 3.4S. However it's often overlooked that the 2.7 Cayman in 987.1 flavour doesn't really have any issues, making it a relative bargain.

I own a 987.1 2.7 "base" Cayman as they are sometimes referred, oddly the 3.4S car launched first and then the 2.7 "base" model appeared. Mines is a 2008, so more or less the last of the 987.1. It's got a modest output in today's standards, just 245bhp, most of its torque only comes into play beyond 4200RPM and on paper it yawns it's way to 60mph in 5.8 seconds. But I think it's a lovely thing to drive on a sweeping B road. Stick a nice exhaust on there and keep it at 2nd or 3rd gear above 5k revs, the long gearing means it will just go and go, screaming it's way around, even though you're only just above NSL speeds.

It will however be out accelerated off a roundabout by anyone in a modern powerful, diesel. When you drive /buy one you decide if that's important.

I have though never driven a 718, but a back to back drive would be a fun few hours . I couldn't afford to buy any car at the type of money they go for.

Ha! Another 987.1 2.7 Cayman owner here and I could have written that post word-for-word (only not as well.)

Thanks for saving me the hassle Deebs!

The only thing I'd add is that if the 718 has a chassis that is so far ahead of that on a 987 then it must be an utter wonder to behold. I look forward to the day when I try one but the 987 is a cracker in that department.

[C.MW]

yonex said:

saxy said:

I know the appeal of a cayman/boxster was always in its handling department. But I find it crazy that my Stinger GT that I bought fully loaded for the price of a base 320i, accelerates faster and has a higher top speed. I guess same can be said about golf R's and a35's nowadays. Every time I want to go check out these 2nd hand heros that I once loved, just don't make sense buying unless it's for the manual gearbox and that I have a free extra parking space because a Cayman would have to be someone's 2nd car, and not their only.

A Kia Stinger. What relevance is that?

I get what saxy is trying to say. It's not that outright speed is everything but since a Cayman is still a Porsche, one could reasonably expect it to handle better AND go faster than a sporty family saloon like a Stinger. Btw that car's received many good reviews on the other side of the pond.

[Plate spinner]

C.MW said:

yonex said:

saxy said:

I know the appeal of a cayman/boxster was always in its handling department. But I find it crazy that my Stinger GT that I bought fully loaded for the price of a base 320i, accelerates faster and has a higher top speed. I guess same can be said about golf R's and a35's nowadays. Every time I want to go check out these 2nd hand heros that I once loved, just don't make sense buying unless it's for the manual gearbox and that I have a free extra parking space because a Cayman would have to be someone's 2nd car, and not their only.

A Kia Stinger. What relevance is that?

I get what saxy is trying to say. It's not that outright speed is everything but since a Cayman is still a Porsche, one could reasonably expect it to handle better AND go faster than a sporty family saloon like a Stinger. Btw that car's received many good reviews on the other side of the pond.

But as has already been pointed out, when the Boxster was launched it was slower in a straight line that a Volvo T4.

Why do people think a Porsche should be fastest than... well anything? Plenty of them aren’t.

[CABC]

C.MW said:

I get what saxy is trying to say. It's not that outright speed is everything but since a Cayman is still a Porsche, one could reasonably expect it to handle better AND go faster than a sporty family saloon like a Stinger. Btw that car's received many good reviews on the other side of the pond.

absolutely not.
more speed typically requires heavier drivetrain. which needs heavier other bits, and so on.
bring corners into the equation and 'faster' becomes more multi-dimensional.
sometimes, less really is more. this is just an engineering self-evident truth. go to some of the classic racing where you see whales and minnows together lapping at the same rate, but faster in different parts of the circuit
Volvo & Saab were producing faster saloons decades ago, but Porsche was no worse for it then.

[glasso]

Whatever about everything else the Cayman is now a much better-looking car than the 987 was.