Subaru vs bike head on collision.

Subaru vs bike head on collision.

Author
Discussion

Mr Tidy

22,065 posts

126 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
ericmcn said:
BMW fanboys must love to see this, as tragic as it is. Subarus have awesome handling and control but its all down to the driver at the end of the day as its he or she who is at the wheel and like any car they crash if driven badly

hopefully that biker will recover
I don't think any driver wants to see this sort of incompetence, regardless of what car the numpty was driving or what any of us drives!

"hopefully that biker will recover" seems a pretty pathetic comment, but then it is from a pretty pathetic forum presence.

To me it just seems like an accident that didn't need to happen, which makes it even sadder - my thoughts and best wishes go to the bike rider, his family and friends.

Debaser

5,665 posts

260 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
Captain_Chaos said:
Debaser said:
Looks like poor driving to me.

You'd be amazed how many drivers don't know where the limits are. They'll corner or brake fairly hard (approx. 0.6-0.8g) convinced they're at the limit of what the car can do.
I wouldn't mind betting that 0.8g of cornering force meets or exceeds what the majority of cars are capable of.
Which is my point. If someone thinks their car can’t corner or brake at 0.8g, they’ll drive up to that point and think they’re at the limit.


A1VDY

3,575 posts

126 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
Debaser said:
Captain_Chaos said:
Debaser said:
Looks like poor driving to me.

You'd be amazed how many drivers don't know where the limits are. They'll corner or brake fairly hard (approx. 0.6-0.8g) convinced they're at the limit of what the car can do.
I wouldn't mind betting that 0.8g of cornering force meets or exceeds what the majority of cars are capable of.
Which is my point. If someone thinks their car can’t corner or brake at 0.8g, they’ll drive up to that point and think they’re at the limit.
The problem here with talk of vanishing point, heel and toe, racing line, cornering at 0.8g ect ect is that we're talking of the public roads here.
All this bks needs to be kept for the track..

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

233 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
The guy just didn't know how to drove properly. A real shame.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
A1VDY said:
The problem here with talk of vanishing point, heel and toe, racing line, cornering at 0.8g ect ect is that we're talking of the public roads here.
All this bks needs to be kept for the track..
Vanishing point is a road driving concept with no relevance to the track.

FrenchCarFan

6,759 posts

204 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
Rawwr said:
ericmcn said:
BMW fanboys must love to see this, as tragic as it is. Subarus have awesome handling and control but its all down to the driver at the end of the day as its he or she who is at the wheel and like any car they crash if driven badly

hopefully that biker will recover

Mark Higgins practice run up Transfagarasan highway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x29oahegQbI&t=...

Subaru Impreza overtaking everything on a track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI1PGErtAjU&t=...
There really isn't an upper limit to the amount of brain tumours I hope you develop over the next few days.
Tough crowd flol. hehe

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
Rawwr said:
There really isn't an upper limit to the amount of brain tumours I hope you develop over the next few days.
Eric is crass and lacks self awareness, however that's a bit harsh.

As for the crash, the section of driving released to the public is short. The police and CPS will have seen much more if it to come to their charging conclusion. There will also have been the driver's explanation for being offside at that moment, which we don't have.

On my understanding of the law, had it been a simple misjudging the severity of an unfamiliar bend, it would be hard to charge dangerous.

Debaser

5,665 posts

260 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
A1VDY said:
Debaser said:
Captain_Chaos said:
Debaser said:
Looks like poor driving to me.

You'd be amazed how many drivers don't know where the limits are. They'll corner or brake fairly hard (approx. 0.6-0.8g) convinced they're at the limit of what the car can do.
I wouldn't mind betting that 0.8g of cornering force meets or exceeds what the majority of cars are capable of.
Which is my point. If someone thinks their car can’t corner or brake at 0.8g, they’ll drive up to that point and think they’re at the limit.
The problem here with talk of vanishing point, heel and toe, racing line, cornering at 0.8g ect ect is that we're talking of the public roads here.
All this bks needs to be kept for the track..
If you could avoid an accident on the public road by braking as hard as possible, would you?

Leptons

5,113 posts

175 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
Rawwr said:
There really isn't an upper limit to the amount of brain tumours I hope you develop over the next few days.
I think that puts you in the same boat as the bell end you’re having a go at to be honest.

It’s frustrating seeing all those piping up say “he just couldn’t drive”, “he didn’t know how to handle the car” etc.

SWITCH ON. Do you really think the chairman of the SIDC wasn’t used to driving quick? He did trackdays by all accounts. It wasn’t the cars fault, it wasn’t the roads fault, he simply made a mistake on that particular corner which had tragic consequences.

We’ve all made them whether it’s on the road, on track, flying a plane..... it’s just most of the time we get away with it. Think about this next time you make one.

Janluke

2,552 posts

157 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
As a biker I hate to see this sort of accident as it makes me question why I still ride. I am aware of the risk, aware that I am more vulnerable on two wheels but to date it's a risk I'm prepared to take.

As motoring enthusiasts both 2 and 4 wheeled what we want to see in these cases is some blatant mistake, a piece of driving/riding so reckless that it reassures us it can never happen to us.

What I see in the video is a moment of poor driving, a small lapse, a moment that if we're honest most of us will have experienced at some point in our driving history and got away with. Its just in this case it proved to be life changing for all concerned.

Literally and figuratively we don't know what's around the corner

fausTVR

1,442 posts

149 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
I haven't read all posts but that corner was off camber, that's why the car washed out wide like that. 100% driver error of course, way too fast there for that reason. Only local knowledge and skilled driving could have avoided that. Shame he didn't stuff it in the verge but we are kind of conditioned to keep on the road no matter what.

I hope the poor sod on the bike makes a good recovery.

Hungrymc

6,642 posts

136 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
rxe said:
GC8 said:
I think that we can be divided into two groups when watching the video: those who immediately think ‘steer right!’, and those who think ‘what? what?’

Hopefully everyone here (and on the roads) is in the former group. Sadly, it appears, most are not.

If you think that I am wrong, then know that I think that you should take the bus.
Honestly, I think most of us would do precisely what he did - mash the brakes and freeze.
I find it hard to accept that (although many have said it so I have to). When things go wrong your first reaction is to find an escape route. ... iIts often a key part of accident avoidance (hence abs etc) , the bike can’t steer as his rear wheel is 2ft in the air.

There is no decision to make in this video..... Horrendous head on crash, or bouncing through a verge / field ? How can anyone chose the former? The reaction should be throw the car into the verge?

Anyway, people do, so it sounds like something that we all need to consciously try to bring into our driving / riding.






Hungrymc

6,642 posts

136 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
ericmcn said:
BMW fanboys must love to see this, as tragic as it is. Subarus have awesome handling and control but its all down to the driver at the end of the day as its he or she who is at the wheel and like any car they crash if driven badly

hopefully that biker will recover

Mark Higgins practice run up Transfagarasan highway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x29oahegQbI&t=...

Subaru Impreza overtaking everything on a track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI1PGErtAjU&t=...
What is wrong with you ?

Baldchap

7,505 posts

91 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
Hungrymc said:
I find it hard to accept that (although many have said it so I have to). When things go wrong your first reaction is to find an escape route. ... iIts often a key part of accident avoidance (hence abs etc) , the bike can’t steer as his rear wheel is 2ft in the air.

There is no decision to make in this video..... Horrendous head on crash, or bouncing through a verge / field ? How can anyone chose the former? The reaction should be throw the car into the verge?

Anyway, people do, so it sounds like something that we all need to consciously try to bring into our driving / riding.
People's typical response to an incident is simply to brake hard. Nothing else, just hold on and brake. You'll find that most seasoned bikers have learned to overcome that gut survival reaction (and it transfers to four wheels too), but in my experience most car-only drivers have not, because they didn't fall off when they learned that reaction.

JakeT

5,406 posts

119 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
SlimJim16v said:
Looking at the video and the street view, an experienced driver would have seen clues to a possible left hand bend. You certainly can't be sure it's a straight road, so should be driving accordingly.

Oh, the other thing, is using Sat-Nav, especially on unfamiliar roads. Not only is it a must for speed cameras, it also gives you advance notice if the road is straight or bends.


Edited by SlimJim16v on Saturday 11th January 23:35
I'm not an 'advanced' driver type, but this is where one should use their intuition, and limit points whilst arriving at the bend. It can be seen that the view of the road is limited as they come toward the bend, insinuating that they should be slowing.

As a BMW fanboy, I really don't enjoy this sort of thing. I know many have Lambasted you, Eric but come on. You really need to tone it down with such unbecoming behaviour.

meatballs

1,140 posts

59 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
Leptons said:
We’ve all made them whether it’s on the road, on track, flying a plane.....
In command of a military anti aircraft installation.

warch

2,941 posts

153 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
Leptons said:
SWITCH ON. Do you really think the chairman of the SIDC wasn’t used to driving quick? He did trackdays by all accounts. It wasn’t the cars fault, it wasn’t the roads fault, he simply made a mistake on that particular corner which had tragic consequences.

We’ve all made them whether it’s on the road, on track, flying a plane..... it’s just most of the time we get away with it. Think about this next time you make one.
I think it is a mistake to equate being a member of a car club or doing track days with being a good driver. In my case I think I'm quite a safe driver because I'm not very good (as in I can't drive fast/corner that hard) so I drive quite conservatively. Basically it isn't worth it to me to push on and make a mistake, especially on the road where unlike a track there is traffic coming in the opposite direction.

But yes this was just a mistake.



meatballs

1,140 posts

59 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
Hungrymc said:
I find it hard to accept that (although many have said it so I have to). When things go wrong your first reaction is to find an escape route. ... iIts often a key part of accident avoidance (hence abs etc) , the bike can’t steer as his rear wheel is 2ft in the air.

There is no decision to make in this video..... Horrendous head on crash, or bouncing through a verge / field ? How can anyone chose the former? The reaction should be throw the car into the verge?

Anyway, people do, so it sounds like something that we all need to consciously try to bring into our driving / riding.
For the driver it's difficult because he's not expecting what happens so it has to be gut reaction. For the biker if he was constantly evaluating escape routes as he goes there's potential. But that's a lot of mental concentration to maintain for every corner for something fairly unlikely.

My evaluating of escape routes is normally other lanes on a motorway, if someone is alongside.

Country roads near me are nearly always hedgerow/walled/housing/trees which makes the evaluation much harder, even if you are thinking about it beforehand.

I've seen people reaction jink onto other lanes on motorways as they realise they can't stop for sudden braking - most of the time they get away with it but if someone is coming fast in that lane then it could be a worse crash (20mph into stationary or 70 into 20 and a spin across the motorway etc.

Also people being conditioned to stay on the road is generally a good thing, have also seen people take the pavement to avoid collisions in a split second and that doesn't bare thinking about if there are pedestrians there.

The infamous moose test shows some people steer to avoid, but I know I quickly brake whenever a situation starts to occur and it has always prevented an accident. So I am very conditioned into that course of action.

Edited by meatballs on Sunday 12th January 10:46

Jim on the hill

5,072 posts

189 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
ericmcn said:
BMW fanboys must love to see this, as tragic as it is. Subarus have awesome handling and control but its all down to the driver at the end of the day as its he or she who is at the wheel and like any car they crash if driven badly

hopefully that biker will recover

Mark Higgins practice run up Transfagarasan highway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x29oahegQbI&t=...

Subaru Impreza overtaking everything on a track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI1PGErtAjU&t=...
Please sell your Subaru, you are an embarrassment. How you can possibly think a biker getting injured is fuel for your so called rivalry between Subaru and BMW, honestly grow up.



Edited by Jim on the hill on Sunday 12th January 10:48

Dont like rolls

3,798 posts

53 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
quotequote all
I thought the group wisdom on PH is the Moose Test in just that, a single test without relevance to a cars handling in everyday circumstances ?
From what I have read there are many cars that score lower than others (at times by some margin) but are regarded as road kings.
Would ESP have made the difference here ? Was this Subaru type fitted with it ?