Myth about former luxury car brands

Myth about former luxury car brands

Author
Discussion

Baldchap

7,503 posts

91 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
GTiWILL said:
Just playing devil’s advocate here...

What about the notion that BMW, Mercedes et al. are a premium product, and that those who are suggesting otherwise are just trying to excuse the fact they bought something humdrum?
I had a Golf GTI when my brother had an Octavia VRS - the Golf was a much higher quality interior and a generation ahead in tech.

After my Golf I bought an Audi. The interior/tech is better again.

It is almost as if the more expensive car is actually a better product, rather than just a different badge... But what do I know? laugh

Weekendrebuild

1,004 posts

62 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Baldchap said:
GTiWILL said:
Just playing devil’s advocate here...

What about the notion that BMW, Mercedes et al. are a premium product, and that those who are suggesting otherwise are just trying to excuse the fact they bought something humdrum?
I had a Golf GTI when my brother had an Octavia VRS - the Golf was a much higher quality interior and a generation ahead in tech.

After my Golf I bought an Audi. The interior/tech is better again.

It is almost as if the more expensive car is actually a better product, rather than just a different badge... But what do I know? laugh


True this is just the usual German car bashing thread you get on here. Every other story is how some rust heap Mondeo or fiesta is far superior to any German offering

dhutch

14,198 posts

196 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Zetec-S said:
Stick a private plate on a well cared for E46 3 series and lots of non car people would have no idea it’s shed territory.
You don't even need to do that, I've got a x-reg 330ci and most people think it's on a private plate already!

Deep Thought

35,720 posts

196 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
dhutch said:
You don't even need to do that, I've got a x-reg 330ci and most people think it's on a private plate already!
Some years ago my wife went from a two year old Prodrive modded Subaru Impreza which she had bought new to a 2000 BMW 330Ci with 130,000 miles on it. She was getting comments like "oh you've moved up in the world" from work colleagues even though the Subaru had cost x10 as much rolleyes

lowdrag

12,868 posts

212 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
It is interesting to see that a few years back Mercedes ditched their tried and trusted 2.2 engine for the 1600 Renault engine. Better economy and emissions it seems, but a lot of complaints about reliability.

FA57REN

1,012 posts

54 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
Baldchap said:
I had a Golf GTI when my brother had an Octavia VRS - the Golf was a much higher quality interior and a generation ahead in tech.
What 'tech' do you mean?

Surely any car these days offers Bluetooth connection for Android Auto or the Apple equivalent plus all the mandatory safety systems. What else is needed?

In the wider context, more 'tech' just means more bugs and points of failure. So why pay money for that in a car?

Edited by FA57REN on Sunday 19th January 09:18

av185

18,432 posts

126 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
Weekendrebuild said:
Baldchap said:
GTiWILL said:
Just playing devil’s advocate here...

What about the notion that BMW, Mercedes et al. are a premium product, and that those who are suggesting otherwise are just trying to excuse the fact they bought something humdrum?
I had a Golf GTI when my brother had an Octavia VRS - the Golf was a much higher quality interior and a generation ahead in tech.

After my Golf I bought an Audi. The interior/tech is better again.

It is almost as if the more expensive car is actually a better product, rather than just a different badge... But what do I know? laugh


True this is just the usual German car bashing thread you get on here. Every other story is how some rust heap Mondeo or fiesta is far superior to any German offering
Could well be in the reliability stakes at least:

Baldchap

7,503 posts

91 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
FA57REN said:
Baldchap said:
I had a Golf GTI when my brother had an Octavia VRS - the Golf was a much higher quality interior and a generation ahead in tech.
What 'tech' do you mean?

Surely any car these days offers Bluetooth connection for Android Auto or the Apple equivalent plus all the mandatory safety systems. What else is needed?

In the wider context, more 'tech' just means more bugs and points of failure. So why pay money for that in a car?

Edited by FA57REN on Sunday 19th January 09:18
Few years back now so forgive me if the memory is a bit hazy - we both agreed Skoda had held the Octy back to differentiate. From memory it was things like adaptive cruise as standard, a better infotainment unit etc. Nowadays the Golf gets the digital dash, not sure the Skoda does yet.

The Golf kit was excellent to use and didn't have any bugs to my knowledge, neither did the 7.5 that followed it, neither does my current Audi. It's almost as if they test this stuff before they lob it in a car. In fact, other than having to reboot a Tesla from time to time (to me they're a tech company that makes cars, not the other way around), I've owned a car with a modern feature that has had bugs...

slopes

38,748 posts

186 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
Chris32345 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
franchise servicing on German cars is very expensive and out of warranty work can be mind blowing expensive at main dealers

£300+ for just an oil change, pollen filters being an extra over the service cost, 'inspection' services where they do no actual work but charge you to find faults they can correct (at least audi and VW do this)

and when you get to the high end stuff £1500 for a set of front discs and pads lol
To be fair that all main dealer's regardless of make not just the Germans
I not long ago got rid of my Peugeot 308 GTi 270 and part of the reason was the potential cost of replacement discs and pads. The dealers wanted circa 1500 for front discs and pads and if the calipers ever needed to be replaced, they would be £2500!

I think an earlier comment about perceived lesser brands making more high end cars and perceived luxury brands making more low end cars is spot on, the market is changing constantly and manufacturers are having to move with the trends or they will suffer big time.

Baldchap

7,503 posts

91 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
slopes said:
Chris32345 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
franchise servicing on German cars is very expensive and out of warranty work can be mind blowing expensive at main dealers

£300+ for just an oil change, pollen filters being an extra over the service cost, 'inspection' services where they do no actual work but charge you to find faults they can correct (at least audi and VW do this)

and when you get to the high end stuff £1500 for a set of front discs and pads lol
To be fair that all main dealer's regardless of make not just the Germans
I not long ago got rid of my Peugeot 308 GTi 270 and part of the reason was the potential cost of replacement discs and pads. The dealers wanted circa 1500 for front discs and pads and if the calipers ever needed to be replaced, they would be £2500!

I think an earlier comment about perceived lesser brands making more high end cars and perceived luxury brands making more low end cars is spot on, the market is changing constantly and manufacturers are having to move with the trends or they will suffer big time.
Brembo (better than OEM) brake disks are £80 on Euro Car Parts. OEM equivalent are £70. Sounds like someone was trying to pull your pants down. biglaugh

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
jakesmith said:
I'm not sure I agree with that, the appearance inside & out of Audi, BMW & Merc are far more appealing than most others. I had a look a Lexus & Volvo, and the interior and dash cluster / console really did look diabolical by comparison.
This is highly subjective, though. Have you considered that you have been conditioned to favour that Germanic style of interior by your prejudices about the prestige of German cars?

Baldchap

7,503 posts

91 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
otolith said:
jakesmith said:
I'm not sure I agree with that, the appearance inside & out of Audi, BMW & Merc are far more appealing than most others. I had a look a Lexus & Volvo, and the interior and dash cluster / console really did look diabolical by comparison.
This is highly subjective, though. Have you considered that you have been conditioned to favour that Germanic style of interior by your prejudices about the prestige of German cars?
Even when I owned a Lexus I had to concede that Mercs and Audis had nicer interiors. If you were to detach from your argument for a moment, you'd agree too.

Evercross

5,881 posts

63 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
Baldchap said:
Even when I owned a Lexus I had to concede that Mercs and Audis had nicer interiors.
All very subjective. Merc interiors these days appeal to the 'bling' generation more used to costume jewellery than craftsmanship. Fair enough their interiors of old were quality-over-style, but get inside a Jaguar from 10 years ago to feel what quality AND style looks and feels like.

PS, Mercedes standard 'leather' feels more like rubber.

lowdrag

12,868 posts

212 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
Evercross said:
All very subjective. Merc interiors these days appeal to the 'bling' generation more used to costume jewellery than craftsmanship. Fair enough their interiors of old were quality-over-style, but get inside a Jaguar from 10 years ago to feel what quality AND style looks and feels like.

PS, Mercedes standard 'leather' feels more like rubber.
Well, as someone the wrong side of 70 it is entertaining to be called as "of the bling bling generation". The inside of my C-class Mercedes for the last 20 years can only be described as sober and functional. The only annoyance is the rear wiper switch, but the dashboard is a model of clarity and efficiency. The cloth seats have not worn, and apart from the steering wheel getting a trifle shiny she wears her years well. I have had but one new Jaguar all my life, an X300 in 1996, and I kept it ten months. Gearbox failures, three sets of wheels where the lacquer fell off in chunks, a window that went down and didn't come back up; on it goes. But yes, the leather seat were comfy and the dash pleasing to the eye, so I guess that is more important than getting from A to B.


Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 19th January 16:23

Wooda80

1,743 posts

74 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
av185 said:
Could well be in the reliability stakes at least:
This graph is rather like looking at F1 qualifying times and concluding that the drivers at the bottom of sheet can't drive for toffee, when in reality the difference on the road between top and bottom is negligible.

Number of faults per single car on the best performing car = 1 ( to the nearest whole number )
Number of faults per single car on the worst performing car = 2 ( to the nearest whole number )

If the difference was any smaller it wouldnt be worth reporting.

av185

18,432 posts

126 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
Evercross said:
Baldchap said:
Even when I owned a Lexus I had to concede that Mercs and Audis had nicer interiors.
All very subjective. Merc interiors these days appeal to the 'bling' generation more used to costume jewellery than craftsmanship. Fair enough their interiors of old were quality-over-style, but get inside a Jaguar from 10 years ago to feel what quality AND style looks and feels like.

PS, Mercedes standard 'leather' feels more like rubber.
Or plastic:

g3org3y

20,606 posts

190 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
Zetec-S said:
Stick a private plate on a well cared for E46 3 series and lots of non car people would have no idea it’s shed territory.
yes

As a sheddy E46 330 Coupe owner, can definitely attest to that.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
Baldchap said:
otolith said:
jakesmith said:
I'm not sure I agree with that, the appearance inside & out of Audi, BMW & Merc are far more appealing than most others. I had a look a Lexus & Volvo, and the interior and dash cluster / console really did look diabolical by comparison.
This is highly subjective, though. Have you considered that you have been conditioned to favour that Germanic style of interior by your prejudices about the prestige of German cars?
Even when I owned a Lexus I had to concede that Mercs and Audis had nicer interiors. If you were to detach from your argument for a moment, you'd agree too.
No, that style doesn't do anything for me. It looks too much like expensive office furniture. And Lexus have a history of aping it, with varying levels of success. Volvo plough their own furrow, though. Conceptually I would take a Tesla interior over anything the Germans are currently selling, albeit that the execution isn't all that. Current Mercedes interiors are hideously vulgar.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
g3org3y said:
Zetec-S said:
Stick a private plate on a well cared for E46 3 series and lots of non car people would have no idea it’s shed territory.
yes

As a sheddy E46 330 Coupe owner, can definitely attest to that.
Non car people would just assume that it was something old.

g3org3y

20,606 posts

190 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
g3org3y said:
Zetec-S said:
Stick a private plate on a well cared for E46 3 series and lots of non car people would have no idea it’s shed territory.
yes

As a sheddy E46 330 Coupe owner, can definitely attest to that.
Non car people would just assume that it was something old.
Non car people generally can't see beyond the badge. BMW = fancy/expensive.

No-one at work believed my E46 shed was 20 years old and £900.