Re : The Porsche 718 GTS bombshell | PH Footnote

Re : The Porsche 718 GTS bombshell | PH Footnote

Saturday 18th January 2020

The Porsche 718 GTS bombshell | PH Footnote

The idea of a 4.0-litre, six-cylinder Cayman is heavenly. But at what cost?



If there is a band of people out there somewhere hoping that the combustion engined performance car will soon meet its end, they’ll be licking their wounds this week. I’d only just stopped daydreaming about the Toyota GR Yaris – the most interesting new hot hatch for a very long time, I reckon – when the press release dropped in from Porsche confirming that GTS versions of the 718 Cayman and Boxster are ditching the underwhelming flat-four turbo engines in favour of a naturally-aspirated flat-six. If good news comes in threes, perhaps next week PH will be reporting on a factory-approved manual gearbox conversion for the Alpine A110. We shall see.

I’ve been wondering what the knock-on effects of Porsche’s announcement might be. On the not unreasonable assumption that these new GTS models will turn out to be really rather good, I think the fallout might look something like this…


Reduced demand for 718 Cayman GT4 and 718 Boxster Spyder

Before these latest GTS derivatives were announced, there was one very good reason for the Cayman or Boxster buyer to covet the range-topping models: they were the only way to dodge the tuneless turbocharged four-pot. But now you can have the same six-cylinder powertrain as the Porsche Motorsport models, minus 20hp and a couple of hundred rpm, for 10 per cent less outlay. Not bad.

Porsche has already said it’ll try to meet demand for the Spyder and GT4 this time around rather than favouring long-standing customers, as has tended to be the case with its GT models, but that won’t happen right away. Regardless, this week’s announcement will probably let it off the hook. After all, if your OPC tells you that you won’t be getting your mitts on one of the halo models for a little while yet, are you going to stamp your feet and write angry forum posts about it, or buy a GTS and get on with enjoying the thing?

Chances are, too, that anybody who might have been hoping to flip a GT4 or Spyder to spin a few quid will now have a harder time of it. Hear those tiny violins ring out.


Four-cylinder 982s lose value

Now that Porsche has publicly declared that a four-cylinder engine with a turbocharger attached to it actually isn’t the right kind of motor for a high-end sports car – which it just has, effectively – who’s going to want one with exactly that behind the seats? I suspect four-cylinder 982s will quickly become less desirable and lose value as a result. Suboptimal for anybody who owns one now, sure, but very good news indeed for the rest of us, not least because a four-cylinder Boxster or Cayman is actually a very desirable car. Okay, so the soundtrack and power delivery aren’t quite right, but they offer very punchy performance and what could be the best chassis in the business. If 982s slip far enough, I would gladly overlook an uninspiring exhaust note.

As an aside, I’ve just spotted something curious: official figures suggest Porsche sold about as many 982s as six-cylinder 981s, but in the PH classifieds right now there are 206 four-cylinder Boxsters and Caymans up for sale, but only 102 six-pot 981s. It seems owners of four-cylinder cars are twice as likely to want to move them on.


981s lose value too

It seems likely to me that values of pre-2016 981 Caymans and Boxsters, with their lovely 2.7 and 3.4-litre n/a flat sixes, were being propped up by the quiet suspicion that they could be the last of their type. And now we know they’re nothing of the sort. They won’t be quite so sought-after in that case and, what’s more, plenty of owners will upgrade to a new GTS and 981s will flood the market. In either case, values take a tumble.

Other manufacturers follow suit

Okay, file this one under ‘wishful thinking’. I don’t believe for a moment that BMW will be inspired to turn its back on downsizing, cylinder-shedding and turbocharging, but wouldn’t it be grand if it did introduce a high-revving V8 for the next M3? Actually, as long as we’re daydreaming about this sort of thing, I would have Mercedes-AMG reintroduce a modernised version of that show-stopping 6.2-litre V8 from the SLS Black Series and drop it into the AMG GT. Yummy.

In more ways than one, then, the introduction of these new six-cylinder GTSes is very good news, whether you’re about to put down a deposit for one or not. But mostly I’m encouraged by this development because it comes at a time when many of us were beginning to assume that really evocative engines were becoming a thing of the past. For giving the naturally-aspirated performance car engine a stay of execution, let me say this: thank you, Porsche.


Search for a Porsche here



Author
Discussion

Repent

Original Poster:

358 posts

173 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Great article.

I currently work for a global organisation that is heavily involved in the understanding and advocation of climate change reversal, and as a lifelong petrolhead the recent, swift changes to the automotive world leave me conflicted.

The move in general makes complete sense to me and I couldn’t be more behind it, which feels odd, but the right thing given the overwhelming evidence. However the impact of a small number of N/A cars for enthusiasts is so small, that has to be something that’s manageable moving forward.

I’m really intrigued to see, particularly in the UK which in many ways is leading western policy, how older enthusiast models are treated in upcoming regulations. If screaming V8’s will be provided special licences and insurance at higher cost and lower mileage for example, or will they simply be taxed off the road?

Similarly, public perception. When horrific weather cranks up even more globally, people’s homes begin to flood in low lying areas, will driving around with an overtly ICE powered car put you in the category of social pariah?

In the immediate, great news to hear we have the N/A scream just a little longer.

Speedgirl

291 posts

167 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Good footnote. This engine reinforces my suspicion that the 718 doesn’t have much of a future in it’s current form and they will be making it electric when they move to the 992 platform, or something completely different. Having a 4.0 motor in the entry car just doesn’t sound very with the times. Magnificent as it is. And at some point anxiety about regulations and bans will creep in and that will affect demand not just for diesels but the big petrol NAs too.

lewisf182

2,089 posts

188 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Really good news overall. The 718 GTS will be sublime...
On a personal level i’ve been wanting a 981 GTS for a while and yes they are fantastic but seem a little overpriced given their age etc. Hopefully this new 718 will drop the prices of 981’s to something a bit more sensible. They’ve barely moved in price for the last 4 years, great for owners mind.

The 718 GTS’ will be interesting in terms of value too... given what happened to 981 values a 718 seems like an extremely good buy where you can enjoy it and not lose too much value - just need to find that £70k

blue al

944 posts

159 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
When SUV's stop outselling electric cars by 20 to 1
I will begin to believe that sports cars manufacturers might have to start thinking about the bigger picture,
The worst thing for the planet is excessively heavy cars, doing multiple short journeys, so it's the fat and profitable end of the Porsche market the tree huggers need to focus on, not sports car drivers


BigChiefmuffinAgain

1,062 posts

98 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
I don't pretend to be car engine wise, but surely Porsche can come up with a smaller capacity 6 cylinder car which still has enough power. 4 litre seems a bit excessive these days....

chunder

735 posts

246 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
I don't pretend to be car engine wise, but surely Porsche can come up with a smaller capacity 6 cylinder car which still has enough power. 4 litre seems a bit excessive these days....
I understand all of the words you've used in isolation but not when put together in that order.

Can you elaborate as I have no idea what your point is ?

Repent

Original Poster:

358 posts

173 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
I don't pretend to be car engine wise, but surely Porsche can come up with a smaller capacity 6 cylinder car which still has enough power. 4 litre seems a bit excessive these days....
I would imagine lower N/A capacity means higher revs to get power, and higher revs means higher emissions as you’re inherently burning more fuel with each cycle?

The only option would then be to lower the power expectation in the market which may be possible longer term as EV’s will have far more outright grunt, potentially leaving N/A engines to be optimised for emissions and enjoyment over power?

Lexington59

974 posts

65 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
You want NA you have to go top of the range. So residuals? Most likely will impact the outgoing GTS based on the price point and 981s as no longer the last of the line. GT4 impact possibly. Base 4 pots, (also in the F Type and Supra) simply mark a cheaper tax & mpg efficient entry point into the range, and let’s face it there’s absolutely no chance of the four litre going into the base.

They definitely now have Alpine on the back foot however...

moonigan

2,137 posts

241 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Interesting article. I wonder what would happen if Porsche were to put the 4cyl engine in either capacity inside a GT4 body. Take away all the GT3 related suspension parts. I'm talking about something that looks like a GT4, has the same stance as a GT4 but only has the "horrible" 4 cyl engine that everyone hates and sell it for around £55K. They would not be able to build them quick enough because lets face it a only small percentage of GT4 buyers actually buy the car because of the way it drives. They are bought by most because of how it looks and for several years they have been cheap motoring. Take away the prospect of cheap motoring and starts to look expensive.

Like BMW did with "M Sport" and Audi with "S Line", Porsche could offer a "GT4 Lite" and it would satisfy 70% of GT buyers.

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Some good comments from Dan. I can imagine him in bed working out this "gift from the Gods" before the radio 4 shpping forecast comes on.

I know I do.

All the points mentioned are from a PH person who drives an Alpine and loves driving. Looks like Porsche is following suite, perhaps gone the days when it was just money/OPC/ LOI/ old boys network that mattered? PH journos and the forum might have had some influence on that, I hope so.A car needs to be driven not flipped.

Getting back to this car. I think it is fantastic. However the pissed on 4 cyl turbo does have some advantages such as lower engine weight and torque.

If I was in charge at Porsche I would do the following, given unlimited budget.

2.25litre 3 pot turbocharged ....and a close ratio geabox, 60.1mph in second...... to appease the statisticians and then 3rd gear revs to 85....

Name it the 719 GTti wink

It would separate the 911 from the entry level more whilst keeping the sound.


Edited by Gandahar on Saturday 18th January 10:43

TimoMak

255 posts

55 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Superb. 4.0 litre massive displacement, hugely co2 polluting, 25 mpg inefficiency in 2020, there’s no better car available today to say: “fk you Greta!”

Edited by TimoMak on Saturday 18th January 10:45

mcmikey43

29 posts

146 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Currently in an M2 and test drove a Cayman as next car, sounded like a Scoob with a bag of spanner’s in the back seat. Power delivery was also way behind the M2 as well. Steering had much better feel and although I didn’t fling it around it was definitely more balanced. I couldn’t consider the 4 cylinder, would be such a disappointment after the M2 but may go for a 6.

anonymous-user

54 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Except they haven’t “ditched the ‘underwhelming’ four pots” at all, have they? They are still available as S and base models. As you point out, they have already sold as many of these as the previous generation.

So basically if you want a six now you are into ‘top of the range’ GTS money, i.e. £70-80k when specced.

fernando the frog

298 posts

68 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Repent said:
Great article.

I currently work for a global organisation that is heavily involved in the understanding and advocation of climate change reversal, and as a lifelong petrolhead the recent, swift changes to the automotive world leave me conflicted.

The move in general makes complete sense to me and I couldn’t be more behind it, which feels odd, but the right thing given the overwhelming evidence. However the impact of a small number of N/A cars for enthusiasts is so small, that has to be something that’s manageable moving forward.

I’m really intrigued to see, particularly in the UK which in many ways is leading western policy, how older enthusiast models are treated in upcoming regulations. If screaming V8’s will be provided special licences and insurance at higher cost and lower mileage for example, or will they simply be taxed off the road?

Similarly, public perception. When horrific weather cranks up even more globally, people’s homes begin to flood in low lying areas, will driving around with an overtly ICE powered car put you in the category of social pariah?

In the immediate, great news to hear we have the N/A scream just a little longer.
In the grand scheme of things, enthusiast/classic/collectible cars new or old have little impact on the environment when compared to air travel, meat consumption and oversized SUVs...focus on those things first imo

TimoMak

255 posts

55 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Repent said:
Great article.
When horrific weather cranks up even more globally, people’s homes begin to flood in low lying areas
Nothing like a bit of climate alarmism BS, do you work for the BBC? “Climate emergency” my arse.

ITP

2,005 posts

197 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
It’s such a shame that manufactures of very niche cars from the likes of Porsche, Ferrari,, Aston etc are being swept up in all this. The numbers sold globally are minuscule in relation to all cars sold and clearly have effectively zero effect on anything.
Other than a highly visible target to exploit by politicians and extremists and jealous people of course........

In the end it will be self regulating anyway, when Porsche (insert any high end sports car manufacturer) customers stop buying them there is no buisness, so they will disappear. It really doesn’t need politicians to interfere in this niche market.
However, if people still keep buying cars like this, why should the car haters care, if 99.5% of humdrum cars sold to the masses are between 0 and sub 100co2?
It’s not really an issue is it? Unless you are in fact motivated by some other reason of course, just using ‘climate’ to hide behind.

With regard to this particular model it may well be an unexpected, but excellent, blip. Maybe they have a load of 4.0 engines to shift, or they have taken enough taycan orders to more than offset the 200 plus co2 to drop way below the 95co2 average level for fines. Although maybe Porsche is rolled up with the whole of VAG for the average, that would help.

But I say well done to Porsche for building it, whatever the reason, probably the last chance for the old school car enthusiast to get their hands on a high power NA manual car.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

234 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
Don't think anyone on here would buy the 4pot and feel they haven't missed out.

Spend the extra and go for a proper engine.

130R

6,810 posts

206 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
SidewaysSi said:
Don't think anyone on here would buy the 4pot and feel they haven't missed out.

Spend the extra and go for a proper engine.
When is yours arriving then?

I probably am going to spec one in the next few weeks but the non-GTS 718 is a great car and I don't regret running an S as a daily for the last few years at all. This is an 80K car when spec'd + first year tax so it's not a case of just spending a bit extra.

Trevor555

4,440 posts

84 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
""But mostly I’m encouraged by this development because it comes at a time when many of us were beginning to assume that really evocative engines were becoming a thing of the past. For giving the naturally-aspirated performance car engine a stay of execution, let me say this: thank you, Porsche.""

Great news.

I read my copy of Auto Express every week, which if full of electric cars, look forward to reading about this one.


Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

279 months

Saturday 18th January 2020
quotequote all
If they stuck a 911 badge on the back it would be perfect.