Brexit will change the mix of cars sold in the UK.
Discussion
markyb_lcy said:
RogerDodger said:
markyb_lcy said:
Are leavers the least gracious “winners” of anything anywhere, ever?
Not content winning the vote and the battle after it, they’re now intent on getting some pathetic satisfaction out of rubbing remainers noses in it, shutting down any discussion over our future with the EU (which by the way is still to be had at the highest level), and painting us all as somehow inferior because we don’t have a majority opinion.
Yay for populism, eh.
Hmm. I've seen leavers, on the whole, being very quiet about the win. Probably to avoid the ire of remainers.Not content winning the vote and the battle after it, they’re now intent on getting some pathetic satisfaction out of rubbing remainers noses in it, shutting down any discussion over our future with the EU (which by the way is still to be had at the highest level), and painting us all as somehow inferior because we don’t have a majority opinion.
Yay for populism, eh.
The same reason we all kept quiet until we voted in the general election, en masse.
You're also perpetuating a slight fallacy, albeit in a very subtle way, that everyone who voted for BJ and the Tories did so because they were leavers. That’s simply not true. There will have been lifelong Tory voters that were remainers who voted Tory. There will have been lifelong (until now) labour voters (both remain and leave) who voted Tory, not because they are leavers but because they cannot stand JC. And ... lots of other scenarios.
The leave vs remain vote was won 52% vs 48%. Despite being told by various armchair pundits and some politicians over and over that this is some “overwhelming majority”, the simple fact is ... it isn’t. We have a country very narrowly divided over one issue, and somehow we need to heal it and move on. No idea how we do that right now. It’s far too late and I’m far too unqualified to work that one out. What I do know is that expecting the 52% or the 48% to just “shut up” and/or “accept it” isn’t quite going to cut it.
What a bloody mess.
I think the point is, we've all had enough of the smart arse snide comments made by both sides. Time for those to end.
RogerDodger said:
An intelligent post I agree with mostly.
I think the point is, we've all had enough of the smart arse snide comments made by both sides. Time for those to end.
Yep, totally agree. Both “sides” need to start to try to find things to agree on. That will require compromise. We can but live in hope!I think the point is, we've all had enough of the smart arse snide comments made by both sides. Time for those to end.
markyb_lcy said:
Are leavers the least gracious “winners” of anything anywhere, ever?
Not content winning the vote and the battle after it, they’re now intent on getting some pathetic satisfaction out of rubbing remainers noses in it, shutting down any discussion over our future with the EU (which by the way is still to be had at the highest level), and painting us all as somehow inferior because we don’t have a majority opinion.
Yay for populism, eh.
Not at all - I'm sick of reading whining from the losers. Just get over it FFS - you either win or you don't! And you were the 1st losers, but given how badly you lost you may need to get used to having your noses rubbed in it! Because if by some miracle you had won you would surely have done the same!Not content winning the vote and the battle after it, they’re now intent on getting some pathetic satisfaction out of rubbing remainers noses in it, shutting down any discussion over our future with the EU (which by the way is still to be had at the highest level), and painting us all as somehow inferior because we don’t have a majority opinion.
Yay for populism, eh.
Get over it!
Yay another Brexit thread !!... more salty tears from the we can't survive outside the self-serving petty foreign bureaucracy lot..
I just hope the government doesn't waste too much time on the EU deal and gets on with doing deals elsewhere with
people who actually believe in free trade and economic growth , not protectionism, and empire building ..
AND then we make our own rules to suit our industries our people and our friends ,,
Love Europe despise the EU...
I just hope the government doesn't waste too much time on the EU deal and gets on with doing deals elsewhere with
people who actually believe in free trade and economic growth , not protectionism, and empire building ..
AND then we make our own rules to suit our industries our people and our friends ,,
Love Europe despise the EU...
markyb_lcy said:
Down and out said:
df76 said:
Down and out said:
markyb_lcy said:
Which will beg the question ... whatever would have been the point of leaving the EU and specifically the common market and customs union.
Oh yea, we really stuck it to those Brussels lot.
You sound like you're still having trouble accepting democracy. Time will heal it.Oh yea, we really stuck it to those Brussels lot.
Not content winning the vote and the battle after it, they’re now intent on getting some pathetic satisfaction out of rubbing remainers noses in it, shutting down any discussion over our future with the EU (which by the way is still to be had at the highest level), and painting us all as somehow inferior because we don’t have a majority opinion.
Yay for populism, eh.
i doubt much scoffing will be going on then tbh, what goes around and all that..ajap1979 said:
This whole concept of winning and losing amuses me. Personally I’d be very wary of celebrating a win before knowing exactly what I’ve won.
Agreed.And tbh, I haven’t yet seen a single comment that suggests Brexit will be a bonus for the UK motor industry (and car enthusiasts).
powerstroke said:
Yay another Brexit thread !!... more salty tears from the we can't survive outside the self-serving petty foreign bureaucracy lot..
I just hope the government doesn't waste too much time on the EU deal and gets on with doing deals elsewhere with
people who actually believe in free trade and economic growth , not protectionism, and empire building ..
AND then we make our own rules to suit our industries our people and our friends ,,
Love Europe despise the EU...
Who said we couldn’t survive?I just hope the government doesn't waste too much time on the EU deal and gets on with doing deals elsewhere with
people who actually believe in free trade and economic growth , not protectionism, and empire building ..
AND then we make our own rules to suit our industries our people and our friends ,,
Love Europe despise the EU...
As for those countries who we will make deals with that aren’t about protectionism, who are you thinking of? USA? China? Surely not.
Protectionism is on the rise globally. At the same time, we leave the biggest free trade area in the world.
Mr Tidy said:
And you were the 1st losers, but given how badly you lost you may need to get used to having your noses rubbed in it! Because if by some miracle you had won you would surely have done the same!
I’m not sure they would actually, there’s a world of difference between maintaining a status quo and taking a leap into the unknown. I honestly believe that if remain had “won” that the whole thing would largely have been forgotten about by the “man in the street” by now.Ignoring all the Brexit guff for a moment.
Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
kambites said:
malaccamax said:
There's not much you can do to lower CO2 on a boggo petrol Fiesta without making it so expensive no one will buy it.
Toyota manage to sell a Yaris witha WLTP figure of 75g/km for £18k; that's only £2k more than an entry level Fiesta. Admittedly you can probably get bigger discounts on the Ford. I think we'll see a massive fudge. Tories will trumpet a CO2 scheme that's 'tougher' than the EU's, but the get-out clauses will be huge. Eg lots of credit for claiming your manufacturing plant is 'co2 neutral'. We'll never see the exact numbers.
Dunno who's still reading now this has descended into another Brexit debate but it's an important subject.
Butter Face said:
Ignoring all the Brexit guff for a moment.
Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
Thank you for putting this thread back on topic.Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
Butter Face said:
Ignoring all the Brexit guff for a moment.
Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
Interesting. When you say Hybrid and then HEV - do you mean plug-in hybrid for the Captur and hybrid for the Clio and Megane? So many hybrid variants these days, from mild hybrid, to full hybrid (Toyota's big thing) and plug-in hybrid. Hard to know!Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
malaccamax said:
Butter Face said:
Ignoring all the Brexit guff for a moment.
Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
Interesting. When you say Hybrid and then HEV - do you mean plug-in hybrid for the Captur and hybrid for the Clio and Megane? So many hybrid variants these days, from mild hybrid, to full hybrid (Toyota's big thing) and plug-in hybrid. Hard to know!Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
Clio will be a HEV, much like a Prius with much smaller battery than the Captur with a range of circa 2 miles on the battery alone.
Debaser said:
What happens if not enough people in the UK want to buy low CO2 cars? How will they get the average down?
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Mazda are limiting the number of 2.0L MX5s coming to Europe to a few thousand next year to keep their average down. Still have no idea what Brexiteers think they have won. There is no point in arguing, the inevitable failure will always be someone else's fault.
HTP99 said:
malaccamax said:
Butter Face said:
Ignoring all the Brexit guff for a moment.
Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
Interesting. When you say Hybrid and then HEV - do you mean plug-in hybrid for the Captur and hybrid for the Clio and Megane? So many hybrid variants these days, from mild hybrid, to full hybrid (Toyota's big thing) and plug-in hybrid. Hard to know!Manufacturers will aim for these targets with a better mix of low Co2 and Hybrid/Electric vehicles. FWIW I was at a Renault training course yesterday for a new model launch (Captur) which we knew was coming in Hybrid this year and they also told us we are getting HEV Clio and Megane this year which was a bit of a surprise, but the reasoning behind it is to get the emissions down as much as possible.
All manufacturers are doing it and have been doing so for a long time. One of the biggest fleets in the UK (motability) promotes customers getting the lower emission cars by promoting them on lower payments etc, they alone will have a big impact on the average Co2 levels.
It's all been happening for a while. Look at a BMW 3 series, a 320d MSport is 121 g/km. A 330d Xdrive is 141 g/km. Wanna go nuts and have a 340i Xdrive? 165 g/km. Transpose those across an entire range offset by 118d's putting out 100 g/km and i3's with 0 and it's all happening slowly. Hybrid tech will be adopted more and more to get those figures down even lower.
Clio will be a HEV, much like a Prius with much smaller battery than the Captur with a range of circa 2 miles on the battery alone.
HEV/PHEV will start becoming a lot more mainstream (look at company car buyers having 330e instead of 320d etc) and as the cost trickles down to be more affordable.
Another thing that's just become available to our customers (and maybe will start to come back more) is LPG on our Dacia range. They reckon that the LPG engine emits circa 15% lower emissions compared to the normal petrol (still waiting on confirmed Co2) but for a £400 option above the normal petrol it seems like a no brainer for the lower Co2 and improved fuel economy.
RogerDodger said:
I'm merely saying exercise caution when reading a paper with an extreme leaning. "Maybes" become "certains". "Nos" become "maybe nots" etc.
Agree entirely, I try not to take things on a first reading, and generally do a little more research to confirm what is being written before repeating it.And although I put Brexit in the title, I deliberately tried to keep it factual, rather than putting forward my personal thoughts on the matter.
Now, back to the topic:
I think you are going to see some manufacturers use quotas, someone mentioned that Mazda might be doing this? Some will hike the price of the more polluting models, or simply stop selling them in the UK.
The main reason I brought it up, was that it is most definitely an unintended consequence of Brexit. It wasn't part of any discussion that I heard, there was never a "If you vote leave, you know it will impact car sales in the UK, are you ok with that?" mentioned by anyone...
UpBeats said:
all these limits will be dumped when we are out of the EU proper, we have no incentive to stick to them and we wont. Remoaners are salty
Don’t think it has much to do with the EU. We signed up to Kyoto as a sovereign nation, and the Govt has already said they will phase out sale of fossil fuelled private cars by 2040. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff