End of petrol and hybrid
Discussion
Miserablegit said:
Maximising battery life seems to require not charging above 80/90% and not discharging too low (10%?). If so then realistic range is about 70% of advertised range. In a car with an advertised 300 mile range it’s only really about 210 miles on that basis.
They say you shouldnt fast charge over 80%, as this can harm battery life over time. Home type charging isn't an issue. I'm not sure about low battery, but am very few people do 210 miles a day even, so it's no big issue
RobDickinson said:
10 years ago you had the Tesla roadster, 2-3kw charging and not much else. Not even a leaf.
Now you have cars with 370 mile range, 2.4s to 60 and up to 350kw charging
In 15 years no one is going to be buying cars with pistons in.
And that is sad for car enthusiasts - might as well buy a play station and work from home. I accept I’m probably in the minority but I enjoy the noise of a petrol engine and a synthesised noise won’t do.Now you have cars with 370 mile range, 2.4s to 60 and up to 350kw charging
In 15 years no one is going to be buying cars with pistons in.
The Leaf batteries are the same 7 year/100,000km replacement under warranty.
But the elephant in the room is they will not sell you a battery after this point. There is no part number or price if you want to buy it yourself. Also if you want to recycle your battery it can only be done in Japan or possibly in the UK as they manufacture the cars. You cannot ship an EV like a normal car, they want you to remove the battery and ship it seperately. But they are sold everywhere a Nissan dealership is. Tesla, well they are like asking Apple after 5 years for help.
There are lots of Nissan Leafs about and now after 10 years they are reaching the product design envelope. People are still driving them but the battery is degrading and you are in no man's land regarding the battery.
You can't go aftermarket as you cannot insure it, basically because it could overheat and burn to the ground like a Samsung on a plane, voiding your own insurance and anywhere you use a quick charger.
It's an interesting split in the EV owners as there are punters like Robert Lywellan who is excited about the next shiny thing and treats this like a gadget. Then there are the grey haired blokes with a pony tails who drive one as they are saving the planet and want to tell others how Greenpeace approved they are. They were early Prius owners. Only now are regular punters getting in on it.
But if everyone is saying 10 years time it is all EV then what about the old EVs we are buying now? Which team are you in?
Also worldwide EV sales in 2018 were 2% of global car sales. 2019 it was 2% so whilst it would be great if everyone drove an EV there is a Huge part of the world that won't
But the elephant in the room is they will not sell you a battery after this point. There is no part number or price if you want to buy it yourself. Also if you want to recycle your battery it can only be done in Japan or possibly in the UK as they manufacture the cars. You cannot ship an EV like a normal car, they want you to remove the battery and ship it seperately. But they are sold everywhere a Nissan dealership is. Tesla, well they are like asking Apple after 5 years for help.
There are lots of Nissan Leafs about and now after 10 years they are reaching the product design envelope. People are still driving them but the battery is degrading and you are in no man's land regarding the battery.
You can't go aftermarket as you cannot insure it, basically because it could overheat and burn to the ground like a Samsung on a plane, voiding your own insurance and anywhere you use a quick charger.
It's an interesting split in the EV owners as there are punters like Robert Lywellan who is excited about the next shiny thing and treats this like a gadget. Then there are the grey haired blokes with a pony tails who drive one as they are saving the planet and want to tell others how Greenpeace approved they are. They were early Prius owners. Only now are regular punters getting in on it.
But if everyone is saying 10 years time it is all EV then what about the old EVs we are buying now? Which team are you in?
Also worldwide EV sales in 2018 were 2% of global car sales. 2019 it was 2% so whilst it would be great if everyone drove an EV there is a Huge part of the world that won't
Miserablegit said:
And that is sad for car enthusiasts - might as well buy a play station and work from home. I accept I’m probably in the minority but I enjoy the noise of a petrol engine and a synthesised noise won’t do.
You have over 100 years worth of piston engined cars to enjoy. No one will care about weekend classics.
A1VDY said:
Batteries on an old out dated EV will cost far more than the car is worth so yes both the BMW and tesla will be scrap.
Why? You can replace at a cell level if you need to. If your alternator fails you don't replace an engine.Batteries also don't tend to fail suddenly. Range drops off slowly and can be measured.
Yeah... No.
The internal combustion engine and the fuel it runs on will be around for a long time yet. Unless they are bringing out a swathe of electric pickups, trucks, tractors, agricultural machinery, construction plant,.......need I go on? I will expect the hybrid elements of the idea to be refined - possibly insisting on more stringent definitions of what hybrids are 'good' or not. At the moment it is just a headline proposal dreamed up by someone flying a desk in Lomdon.
Ironic that BEVs are so fantastic, so utterly brilliant - that the only way they can get people to take them up universally is effectively banning the sale of anything else.
The internal combustion engine and the fuel it runs on will be around for a long time yet. Unless they are bringing out a swathe of electric pickups, trucks, tractors, agricultural machinery, construction plant,.......need I go on? I will expect the hybrid elements of the idea to be refined - possibly insisting on more stringent definitions of what hybrids are 'good' or not. At the moment it is just a headline proposal dreamed up by someone flying a desk in Lomdon.
Ironic that BEVs are so fantastic, so utterly brilliant - that the only way they can get people to take them up universally is effectively banning the sale of anything else.
Miserablegit said:
RobDickinson said:
10 years ago you had the Tesla roadster, 2-3kw charging and not much else. Not even a leaf.
Now you have cars with 370 mile range, 2.4s to 60 and up to 350kw charging
In 15 years no one is going to be buying cars with pistons in.
And that is sad for car enthusiasts - might as well buy a play station and work from home. I accept I’m probably in the minority but I enjoy the noise of a petrol engine and a synthesised noise won’t do.Now you have cars with 370 mile range, 2.4s to 60 and up to 350kw charging
In 15 years no one is going to be buying cars with pistons in.
Maybe the costs will reveal how deep peoples ‘enthusiasm’ really runs when they cant pcp their cars anymore.
Plus keep an open mind to the fun that’ll be had in evs
tting around trying to build new trade deals with everyone instead of doing anything productive.Mouse Rat said:
This can only happen with Hydrogen EV's
The infastructure, cost, taxation and environmental impact of batteries is not sustainable for everybody.
Hydrogen?...The infastructure, cost, taxation and environmental impact of batteries is not sustainable for everybody.
Much less efficient
Much more expensive
Almost no infrastructure
Storage tanks have a limited life
Leaks out of everything
Needs to be pressurised to 10,000 psi
Needs batteries
Corrosive
listen, EV is where we are going, no choice in the matter, yes you will be allowed to have IC cars as toys etc, but EV's will rule. No one will be able to afford the road pricing for IC cars or the taxation on fuel. that will be through the roof.
20 years from now when we are enjoying the benefits of EV transport we will ask why we didn't do it before....
You have an EV that has a range of 300 miles ? and you wont be fast charging it but will be topping it up when ever its stationary. life will be so much better when EV's are out in force.....
20 years from now when we are enjoying the benefits of EV transport we will ask why we didn't do it before....
You have an EV that has a range of 300 miles ? and you wont be fast charging it but will be topping it up when ever its stationary. life will be so much better when EV's are out in force.....
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