RE: Subaru BRZ prices go up - dramatically
Discussion
rastapasta said:
jamoor said:
rastapasta said:
Subaru is part owned by Toyota to the tune of 16%. This will increase in the similar vein that Toyota has taken over Suzuki who will from this year on wards peddle brand engineered hybrid Toyota's. Subaru will be similar, Toyota will share its engineering know how with a view to a full takeover in the coming years. Toyota want a portfolio of marques ala VW. You can see how this will work. Even in Switzerland alot of the garages that are Toyota also sell Subaru or Suzuki. So this is how Subaru will exist in the future. They won't pull out of Europe as in Switzerland for example they sell more cars in certain regions than Toyota for example and every village has a Subaru garage. But they will stay by using Toyota tech.
And by that token I would forget about Boxer engines from here on.
Why do Toyota want a portfolio of brands?And by that token I would forget about Boxer engines from here on.
I don't think they want to own companies rather own stakes in them, they gave up on scion and semi gave up on diahatsu.
rastapasta said:
Subaru is part owned by Toyota to the tune of 16%. This will increase in the similar vein that Toyota has taken over Suzuki who will from this year on wards peddle brand engineered hybrid Toyota's. Subaru will be similar, Toyota will share its engineering know how with a view to a full takeover in the coming years. Toyota want a portfolio of marques ala VW. You can see how this will work. Even in Switzerland alot of the garages that are Toyota also sell Subaru or Suzuki. So this is how Subaru will exist in the future. They won't pull out of Europe as in Switzerland for example they sell more cars in certain regions than Toyota for example and every village has a Subaru garage. But they will stay by using Toyota tech.
And by that token I would forget about Boxer engines from here on.
Fair points; seems likely.And by that token I would forget about Boxer engines from here on.
But I did mull the idea of a B4 connected to a generator with an e-axle beneath it - sort of 1/3 of a Testarossa, if you will.
That ought to give smoother running than the (inevitable) inline four and possibly be easier to package. Probably too costly to make, though.
A Subaru Tercel is probably more likely...
bluesierra said:
These targets aren't a surprise - they've been in the pipeline for a good few years now. So does this mean that car manufacturers' plans (Subaru and VW for starters) were always just to jack up the prices by passing along the EU fines? Or had they just forgotten and have now panicked?
Market forces will decide its fate though as with any other £ increases to cars. Surely they thought of that back whenever?TX.
EU-wide targets are likely to cause smaller manufacturers to either be acquired by big groups, or just withdraw from the market. So competition will be reduced and prices can rise.
The idea of spreading emissions across a 'fleet average' just plays into the hands of the big auto groups. Like VAG, PSA and FCA... I do wonder who was truly behind pushing the legislation.
The idea of spreading emissions across a 'fleet average' just plays into the hands of the big auto groups. Like VAG, PSA and FCA... I do wonder who was truly behind pushing the legislation.
skinny said:
They were fined €95 per gram over - Per car?
So this means it's >40g over the limit...? Ouch
My understanding is that the 95 average is based on the entire fleet; if the fleet average creeps over that then they pay a fine based upon every car registered even if that specific car is under the 95. Subaru then just divide that by anticipated car sales I guess if they don't want to pay it themselves? As below from now on if they are over the 95 they will end up paying at least €95 for every car registered! I'm sure the irony of 95 / €95 isn't lost on them So this means it's >40g over the limit...? Ouch
Edited by skinny on Tuesday 4th February 15:47
"If the average CO2 emissions of a manufacturer's fleet exceed its target in a given year, the manufacturer has to pay an excess emissions premium for each car registered.
Until 2018, this premium amounts to
€5 for the first g/km of exceedance
€15 for the second g/km
€25 for the third g/km
€95 for each subsequent g/km.
From 2019 on, the penalty will be €95 for each g/km of target exceedance."
https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehi...
TX.
rb_89 said:
If they are indeed passing the fine costs onto consumers then that is really bad!
If there hasn't been a price rise in 2 years then I guess it is to be expected that it is raised a bit.. but 15% seems steep!
Not really - it's just economics 101.If there hasn't been a price rise in 2 years then I guess it is to be expected that it is raised a bit.. but 15% seems steep!
It's always the taxpayer who ends up paying for these grandiose plans, one way or another. It's why import tariffs are such a bad idea.
The fact Subaru do not sell in Europe is not a surprise to anyone, it’s not an indication they make bad cars but the trend going on for years - with the glut of cars out of Bavaria, attractive lease deals, Company BIK incentives - etc, it’s impossible to compete in that segment.
"Several manufacturers including Mazda, Suzuki and Mitsubishi are no longer included in the ACEA statistics for manufacturers."
"In full year 2018, the Volkswagen Group remained the largest car manufacturing conglomerate in Europe. The PSA Group, bolstered by the inclusion of Opel, was the second largest followed by Renault, BMW and the FCA Group. Volkswagen was also the best-selling car brand in Europe in 2018 followed by Renault, Ford, Peugeot and Opel."
https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2018-full...
As everyone knows, I am a big fan of Subaru - I have owned loads of cars over the years but the build quality of this is as good as any, it sails through MOTs and gets me where I want to go with minimal fuss, in all weather conditions, has an awesome sounding engine and is great for over takes also..;)
I’m not really a fan of the CVT boxes in the latest generation of Subaru’s and for me a manual box and a decent engine to go with the AWD is the best for driver engagement, however the JDM market gets cars not available to people in Europe, a market they have little interest in - like the new Leveorg STi, 300bhp or something, albeit with a CVT unfortunately.
The USA is a different kettle of fish entirely and a key territory for Subaru
"Subaru Formula Wins Big in The U.S., But Neglected Europe Stagnates"
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that people in large chunks of N. America would have a good chance of owning a Subaru of sorts due to the adverse weather. I was doing business with a chap from Wisconsin a few years back and he noticed my Subaru in the car park at work and asked about it - he also had a Subaru....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2019/04/02...
"Several manufacturers including Mazda, Suzuki and Mitsubishi are no longer included in the ACEA statistics for manufacturers."
"In full year 2018, the Volkswagen Group remained the largest car manufacturing conglomerate in Europe. The PSA Group, bolstered by the inclusion of Opel, was the second largest followed by Renault, BMW and the FCA Group. Volkswagen was also the best-selling car brand in Europe in 2018 followed by Renault, Ford, Peugeot and Opel."
https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2018-full...
As everyone knows, I am a big fan of Subaru - I have owned loads of cars over the years but the build quality of this is as good as any, it sails through MOTs and gets me where I want to go with minimal fuss, in all weather conditions, has an awesome sounding engine and is great for over takes also..;)
I’m not really a fan of the CVT boxes in the latest generation of Subaru’s and for me a manual box and a decent engine to go with the AWD is the best for driver engagement, however the JDM market gets cars not available to people in Europe, a market they have little interest in - like the new Leveorg STi, 300bhp or something, albeit with a CVT unfortunately.
The USA is a different kettle of fish entirely and a key territory for Subaru
"Subaru Formula Wins Big in The U.S., But Neglected Europe Stagnates"
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that people in large chunks of N. America would have a good chance of owning a Subaru of sorts due to the adverse weather. I was doing business with a chap from Wisconsin a few years back and he noticed my Subaru in the car park at work and asked about it - he also had a Subaru....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2019/04/02...
FA57REN said:
The idea of spreading emissions across a 'fleet average' just plays into the hands of the big auto groups. Like VAG, PSA and FCA... I do wonder who was truly behind pushing the legislation.
Not really correct, pooling was put in the legislation [1] to prevent that. Subaru could have formed an alliance with one or more OEMs. Toyota and Mazda did this, or FCA and Tesla. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehi...
k-off flame-spitting anti-lag!vaud said:
I loved the Spanish BRZ advert, mostly for sheer cheese (and that adverts like this are not allowed in the UK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzjEnxg3GYE
Dont see why not. That's my normal drive to the Co op if out of typhoo tea bags.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzjEnxg3GYE
DanielSan said:
MKnight702 said:
Vee12V said:
For every 10 cars they build, 8 are GT86s en 2 BRZs. That's part of the reason why there are more Toyotas out there. I prefer the BRZ though.
Umm, surely this is as a result of the orders placed?(But, I also never bothered to check).
Please guys! Stop complaining! The Toyota GT86 is currently not even listed on the Dutch website of Toyota any more, but the last list price I saw on there (Oct/Nov.2019) was a starting price of €58.990,=. This is about £50.850,= on the current exchange rate. The discusting CO2 tax here makes this (red energy labelled) fun-car a victim of the green lies spread by our equally discusting left winged politicians. Toyota decided to take it out of their offer due to disappointing sales on this little runabout. (Duh!)
So, praise yourselves lucky you can still buy this lovely little 200Bhp RWD boxer at affordable money. Here we pay this kind of money for a Ford Focus 1.0 Ecoboost 3pot.
So, praise yourselves lucky you can still buy this lovely little 200Bhp RWD boxer at affordable money. Here we pay this kind of money for a Ford Focus 1.0 Ecoboost 3pot.
Edited by Den_W8 on Friday 7th February 14:24
RoverP6B said:
That wretched Swedish brat needs to shut up and go back to school before she destroys the world economy and all personal liberty. What on earth has persuaded Boris that this lunacy is a good idea?!
You shut up grand dad. Why would you care about the environment?If she can help annoy dinosaurs like you then I am a fan.
ericmcn said:
The fact Subaru do not sell in Europe is not a surprise to anyone, it’s not an indication they make bad cars but the trend going on for years - with the glut of cars out of Bavaria, attractive lease deals, Company BIK incentives - etc, it’s impossible to compete in that segment.
So why did Toyota sold 8 times as many GT86? nickfrog said:
RoverP6B said:
That wretched Swedish brat needs to shut up and go back to school before she destroys the world economy and all personal liberty. What on earth has persuaded Boris that this lunacy is a good idea?!
You shut up grand dad. Why would you care about the environment?If she can help annoy dinosaurs like you then I am a fan.
I care a great deal about the environment, but continually squeezing the poor bloody motorist is no solution, especially not enthusiast cars. By all means get people out of diesel Golfs into electric Golfs, but stuff like GT86s don't make the blindest bit of difference to climate change. Oh, and if you think my views on Thunberg and Extinction Rebellion are strong, you should hear my 20-something sons, who really do spit feathers at the mention of either name. Opposition to the green agenda is by no means exclusive to the older generations...
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