RE: All good things come to an end in 2035
Discussion
Tom_The_Light_House said:
I remember the days when Car Tax was called Road Tax. When we weren't taxed on the CO2 in the exhaust but the fact you were using a road.
When people say electric cars will be "robbing the Government of much-needed tax revenue", this is not true.
The government will happily revert back to charging people to use the road.
"It's still 15 years away, no need to panic."
Ah HS2 started in 2018 and was planned to complete in 15 years (2033),
Do we really believe then that the infrastructure required to charge cars, on streets were some people have to park 100 yards away from their own home ; can be ready in the 15 years. I dont believe it
"I guess F1 can no longer "justify" themselves."
Figures from F1 (so i'm not saying they are totally accurate), show that football matches have a larger carbon foot print due to the travel of all the fans and teams.
The world cup alone had the same carbon footprint as 12 years of F1.
LETS BAN FOOTBALL !
While i agree that we need to find a better alternative to fossil fuels, I feel electric cars are a bit like the "Emperor's new clothes"
Not everyone can afford the changes required to run a EV. Buying one to start with and setting up charge points etc.
Well I have a battered 20 year old car, because that's all I can afford to run at the moment.
So in an other 20 years I look forward to driving some of todays new EVs ;-)
Manufacturers won't pay into F1 to develop tech they can't use. When people say electric cars will be "robbing the Government of much-needed tax revenue", this is not true.
The government will happily revert back to charging people to use the road.
"It's still 15 years away, no need to panic."
Ah HS2 started in 2018 and was planned to complete in 15 years (2033),
Do we really believe then that the infrastructure required to charge cars, on streets were some people have to park 100 yards away from their own home ; can be ready in the 15 years. I dont believe it
"I guess F1 can no longer "justify" themselves."
Figures from F1 (so i'm not saying they are totally accurate), show that football matches have a larger carbon foot print due to the travel of all the fans and teams.
The world cup alone had the same carbon footprint as 12 years of F1.
LETS BAN FOOTBALL !
While i agree that we need to find a better alternative to fossil fuels, I feel electric cars are a bit like the "Emperor's new clothes"
Not everyone can afford the changes required to run a EV. Buying one to start with and setting up charge points etc.
Well I have a battered 20 year old car, because that's all I can afford to run at the moment.
So in an other 20 years I look forward to driving some of todays new EVs ;-)
nickfrog said:
Andy20vt said:
Surely if the Government were serious about reducing CO2 emissions then they could ban the overweight, unnecessarily high CO2 producing SUV's overnight with zero impact on people's ability to get around? The only exceptions would be if you can prove you need an SUV for work (e.g. you are a farmer), or you live in a very remote area with a rutted dirt track leading to your front door.
They would have to ban your RS6 first. My SUV is 1250kgs, emits 119g and returns 40mpg actual average or 48mpg on a 150 miles run. Can you share the same figures for your old RS6 please Andy? rxe said:
otolith said:
You will definitely not be able to buy brand new classic cars in 2035.
I don't think we'll be able to drive them either. Inky81 said:
Ed. said:
Turbobanana said:
rxe said:
Who the hell will be able to run a petrol station?
Fun fact: filling stations make more profit on a packet of crisps than they do on a litre of fuel. That's why the shops are so big / well stocked.The petrol stations that haven't turned into larger shops have been getting closed down for years.
Charging electric cars will get quicker but not a couple of minutes for a few years. There isn't enough space on most petrol stations so it would be better to add charging to current car parks or new sites with an attraction /shop.
These sites are not going to sell petrol /diesel.
gazza285 said:
kiseca said:
Hopefully hydrogen reliant aircraft work out rather better this time around than last.
What could possibly go wrong?
Fishy Dave said:
Numeric said:
So how many people who say we must go electric also eat meat, like dairy products and have children?
Yup, agreed. It's sad that the superb TV programme about the human population explosion doesn't seem to have been spoken about much. Probably because anyone who dares suggest the world consider smaller families will become instantly labelled a child hater?https://populationmatters.org/news/2020/01/17/chri...
The glaring true however, is that humans are animals of enormous consumption. For example, a person in the first world will own a car, take a foreign holiday every year, buy clothing very often, eat meat, and play with their phone whilst watching TV. All very wasteful on the resources front. And this is then multiplied by however many children they have.
Full disclosure: I'm a petrolhead who usually goes on two fly away holidays a year and I eat meat once or twice a week. There's no hypocrite like a happy hypocrite.
FourWheelDrift said:
gazza285 said:
kiseca said:
Hopefully hydrogen reliant aircraft work out rather better this time around than last.
What could possibly go wrong?rxe said:
Inky81 said:
You can still buy hay, you can still get a vet, you can still get a blacksmith. The market has shrunk but those involved are all now enthusiasts, not the general population.
How does an enthusiast refine petrol? How does an enthusiast create 10W-60 oil?
RobM77 said:
The key word in Andy's post is "unnecessary". If any given SUV was a normal car then it would weigh less, handle better, go and stop faster, be cheaper to run, and emit less CO2. The advantages of SUVs are confusing to many people, because they don't seem significant enough to warrant the downsides. An RS6 is about the last car I would want to own, but the advantages are tangible: the power it has help it accelerate better and hold a higher speed on derestricted Autobahns. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather be in an Elise than either car, but I was just trying to explain.
And failed. The huge advantages of my SUV warrant the downsides that you mention which count for either zero (acceleration, braking, handling) for mere road use or are non existent or negligeable compared to say a 5 series saloon (cheapness to run, CO2) that would be far less practical for my needs anyway. How can anyone be the arbiter of what is necessary when one drives a RS6 or a 6 pot 5 series?
A SUV is as normal a car as those, particularly if he tangible benefits are of zero relevance. IME a 5 series drives like a barge without any of the advantages of a SUV. But I have no issues with anyone liking them.
Ed. said:
Turbobanana said:
rxe said:
Who the hell will be able to run a petrol station?
Fun fact: filling stations make more profit on a packet of crisps than they do on a litre of fuel. That's why the shops are so big / well stocked.rxe said:
I don't think we'll be able to drive them either. Everyone says "but horses are still usable", but that is a rather different proposition. If engines are banned, then in short order, there won't be that many. Who the hell will be able to run a petrol station, or bother to refine the stuff in order to cater for a declining market of enthusiasts? Make no mistake, this is the end of classics other than as an immovable museum curiosity in short order. Perversely diesels will be fine as trucks will still be using them (forget Teslas silly stunt, there is no current technology to electrify an artic, any more than electric passenger airliners are possible).
I don't really agree with this rather negative outlook. Fuels will still be available well into the 2040s.Ultimately an ICE will run on any flammable gas and volatile liquid. There's nothing to say that the future classic ICE cars won't run on ethanol or gas, assuming the government is still burning gas to power all these new EVs
As far as part issues go, you can still buy brand new SU and Weber carbs... which haven't been relevant to new cars for 30 odd years.
Depending on what the car is, converting it to an EV powertrain might also be an option.
Aletsch said:
How is the electricity required to fuel all the non-ICE cars going to be generated? For a large part by coal-fired power stations, top job!!
Yea currently to offset the Pollution caused by the manufacture of both a tesla and its batteries as well as the pollution from coal burning power stations in the UK it will take 5 years of ownership. So in order to offset that cost you need to run the tesla for 5 years before you have made back the average cost of a typical family car. Now the average person in the uk keeps a car for 3 years and the life of a tesla battery is 8 years.Inky81 said:
rxe said:
Inky81 said:
You can still buy hay, you can still get a vet, you can still get a blacksmith. The market has shrunk but those involved are all now enthusiasts, not the general population.
How does an enthusiast refine petrol? How does an enthusiast create 10W-60 oil?
The profitability of current fuel production includes massive economies of scale which won't work for hobbyists. There will be other countries happy to ship it to us at a cost.
Ok time to give up now, there’s no hope. Our hobby will be legislated out or marketed down. Petrol will be harder to get and the interesting petrol powered cars will be much more expensive. As an example have you seen the prices of things like the old XR fords? Petrol powered cars will still be available but very expensive to buy and run. I hope the environmentalists are happy now that they’ve restricted mobility and f**ked up our hobby. I hope this kind of thing comes and bites everyone of these fools in the arse.
Truly sad times.
Truly sad times.
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