Reasons why you don’t go to a main dealer for a service

[swisstoni]

Dealers are franchisees. Being a franchisee is never a very pleasant situation as you are dictated to by the manufacturer in all sorts of ways.
And you take the flac from the customer.
Nevertheless, there is clearly money to be made, otherwise there would be no dealers.
So I’m not shedding any tears for them I’m afraid.

The whole setup needs a kick up the backside and I hope that new EV makers may also bring new approaches to serving their customers.
The established names are responsible for the current miserable customer experience, not the dealers imho.

[p4cks]

swisstoni said:

The whole setup needs a kick up the backside ...

I whole-heartedly agree. My background is in Customer Service/Customer Experience and I'd love to work for a dealership (even for a month or two) to show them the error of their ways and what customers actually want. They only seem to hire anyone with dealership experience as opposed to anyone outside of the industry who has new ideas so really, they'll never improve!

[itcaptainslow]

cheddar said:

itcaptainslow said:

Your friend is a salesman, with due respect. Not a service manager. Most of the sales personnel I’ve come across have very little idea how a service department operates, nor how efficiencies are calculated.

Different types of technician will display different overall efficiency across the month-typically you’d look for a service technician (so the guy doing service work, brake replacement, tyres-maintenance stuff, basically) to be approximately 110-115% efficient. He’d probably be paid top level bonus on 110%, maybe.

Anything more than that, I would be asking questions over whether he was doing the job properly.

A diagnostic or master tech-typically they’d only be 60-75% efficient. On paper, this makes them look not so great. However, given the nature of the work they do (and a fair proportion of this would be warranty, which pays the bare minimum time and usually nowhere near the time it takes to actually diagnose the fault), this really isn’t a bad shout.

For example, Fred spends an hour and a half diagnosing a job with an engine management light on, which turns out to be a fuel injector issue, one of which requires replacing. Unfortunately the injector is seized in the cylinder head, necessitating extra time to free it off.

Warranty will probably pay the following;
Global ECU scan 0.3 hours
Extended diagnosis and wiring checks 0.5
Replace injector 0.6

This doesn’t take into account the 0.8 hours additional diag time the tech spend to ensure the fault was actually where he was looking, plus the hour to free off the injector.

Hence the tech looks inefficient, but he’s actually done the job properly.

Of course, upper management will only look at the numbers on paper...

You talk a lot about warranty work (which does sound poorly paid) but nothing about the £300/£400/£500 glorified oil changes or the seemingly constant cock ups made by MD service techs.
I could honestly write pages about my poor experiences.

And, when I drove an Amarok I asked for periodic servicing as I only drove 4000 miles annually, I was declined despite the handbook quoting 'Every 15000 miles or every 2nd year, whichever comes first'.
Pure greed.

Can’t quite see the relevance of going from me explaining efficiencies to talking about “glorified oil changes”, but since we’re here...

Yep, some main dealership servicing (just like there are some overpriced independents and fast fit chains!) is overpriced. Yes, there are some bad technicians, in fact, some bloody horrendous ones.

However, there are some reasonably priced, good value main dealership options (when I was at Vauxhall they did the “Masterfit” program where a full service was £200 on most stuff-things like the Omega V6 excepted-which was bloody good value!), and some absolutely cracking technicians who take pride in their job and who really know their stuff.

Unfortunately you’ve had bad luck where you’ve experienced the not so good-I’ll never set foot in Lotus Silverstone again thanks to the incompetence of their technicians and attitude of their service manager and front desk staff. However, it doesn’t mean I tar Norton Way Honda in Letchworth with the same brush, who have been nothing but exceptional with me from purchase to the ongoing servicing requirements.

I don’t quite understand the periodic servicing comment-are you saying they refused to service your vehicle more often or am I misreading?

[832ark]

hi court said:

1) price of oil, just cos you can get it from euro car parts that meets the manufacturer spec cheaper doesn't mean the dealer is ripping you off. The manufacturer will specifically instruct what oil the dealer must use. And I dont mean it must be 5/30. It must be 5/30 castrol magnetec specifically for ford engines. Sometimes a barrel of engine oil can cost over a grand.

When you can buy the exact same oil, and I don’t mean the spec, I mean exactly the same, as a retail customer from elsewhere for approximately 50% of the cost at a main dealer then they really are taking the piss.

[anonymous-user]

832ark said:

When you can buy the exact same oil, and I don’t mean the spec, I mean exactly the same, as a retail customer from elsewhere for approximately 50% of the cost at a main dealer then they really are taking the piss.

Presumably you never go the pub and pay £5 for a beer you could have got for 50p at Tesco....

[832ark]

rockin said:

832ark said:

When you can buy the exact same oil, and I don’t mean the spec, I mean exactly the same, as a retail customer from elsewhere for approximately 50% of the cost at a main dealer then they really are taking the piss.

Presumably you never go the pub and pay £5 for a beer you could have got for 50p at Tesco....

A more accurate analogy would be that with the £5 pint in a pub there’s an additional charge to cover chilling, pulling and serving the pint plus furnishing and cleaning the pub. There is zero extra value in the £16/litre oil that you can buy for £8/litre elsewhere.

[jamoor]

itcaptainslow said:

Can’t quite see the relevance of going from me explaining efficiencies to talking about “glorified oil changes”, but since we’re here...

Yep, some main dealership servicing (just like there are some overpriced independents and fast fit chains!) is overpriced. Yes, there are some bad technicians, in fact, some bloody horrendous ones.

However, there are some reasonably priced, good value main dealership options (when I was at Vauxhall they did the “Masterfit” program where a full service was £200 on most stuff-things like the Omega V6 excepted-which was bloody good value!), and some absolutely cracking technicians who take pride in their job and who really know their stuff.

Unfortunately you’ve had bad luck where you’ve experienced the not so good-I’ll never set foot in Lotus Silverstone again thanks to the incompetence of their technicians and attitude of their service manager and front desk staff. However, it doesn’t mean I tar Norton Way Honda in Letchworth with the same brush, who have been nothing but exceptional with me from purchase to the ongoing servicing requirements.

I don’t quite understand the periodic servicing comment-are you saying they refused to service your vehicle more often or am I misreading?

An incompetent lotus mechanic really would have to be something seeing as they’re just glorified go karts

[jamoor]

p4cks said:

swisstoni said:

The whole setup needs a kick up the backside ...

I whole-heartedly agree. My background is in Customer Service/Customer Experience and I'd love to work for a dealership (even for a month or two) to show them the error of their ways and what customers actually want. They only seem to hire anyone with dealership experience as opposed to anyone outside of the industry who has new ideas so really, they'll never improve!

Exactly, do mechanics go on to be managers?


I really want to leave school and be a service advisor at a dealership said no one ever. The industry doesn’t attract staff because of its terrible reputation.

[anonymous-user]

832ark said:

rockin said:

832ark said:

When you can buy the exact same oil, and I don’t mean the spec, I mean exactly the same, as a retail customer from elsewhere for approximately 50% of the cost at a main dealer then they really are taking the piss.

Presumably you never go the pub and pay £5 for a beer you could have got for 50p at Tesco....

A more accurate analogy would be that with the £5 pint in a pub there’s an additional charge to cover chilling, pulling and serving the pint plus furnishing and cleaning the pub. There is zero extra value in the £16/litre oil that you can buy for £8/litre elsewhere.

• Try buying a bottle of beer in a pub to take away - it's the same price as to drink in. How very unfair.
• Work out the "hourly rate" you're paying the barman at £4.50 each time he pulls a pint. He must be minted.

What's odd is that people load their new cars with massively expensive options that cost the manufacturer very little and don't make a squeak about it.

[Red 4]

National Tyres do an oil and filter change for £50.

As far as I am aware National Tyres are not a charity and they make a profit on the job.

Main dealers charging £200 - £300 for an oil and filter are taking the piss.

I'm sure those with "main dealer experience" will be along to defend their charges.

What do I get that is any different at National Tyres compared to a franchised dealer ?

[Sticks.]

832ark said:

When you can buy the exact same oil, and I don’t mean the spec, I mean exactly the same, as a retail customer from elsewhere for approximately 50% of the cost at a main dealer then they really are taking the piss.

Last time I used one BMW dealers allow you to supply your own oil as long as it is to the approved spec.

Re bodging work to get you back, they also guarantee work for (iirc) two years. Of course they'll suggest work which might need doing. If they had your car, saw something and didn't tell you you'd complain. How urgent or essential it is is something you are free to judge for yourself, often now, as has been said, with a video sent.

[832ark]

rockin said:

832ark said:

rockin said:

832ark said:

When you can buy the exact same oil, and I don’t mean the spec, I mean exactly the same, as a retail customer from elsewhere for approximately 50% of the cost at a main dealer then they really are taking the piss.

Presumably you never go the pub and pay £5 for a beer you could have got for 50p at Tesco....

A more accurate analogy would be that with the £5 pint in a pub there’s an additional charge to cover chilling, pulling and serving the pint plus furnishing and cleaning the pub. There is zero extra value in the £16/litre oil that you can buy for £8/litre elsewhere.

• Try buying a bottle of beer in a pub to take away - it's the same price as to drink in. How very unfair.
• Work out the "hourly rate" you're paying the barman at £4.50 each time he pulls a pint. He must be minted.

What's odd is that people load their new cars with massively expensive options that cost the manufacturer very little and don't make a squeak about it.

I’d consider buying takeaway beer from a pub to be lazy and/or stupid when as you say you can buy the exact same thing from Tesco for 50p.

The £5 pub pint includes much added value to the base beer. The double price oil adds nothing.

[Limpet]

832ark said:

The £5 pub pint includes much added value to the base beer. The double price oil adds nothing.

Actually, the added value in the car service example is the labour which is billed separately at about £120 an hour in a typical main dealer.

It's like a pub landlord charging you £5 for a £2.50 beer, and then charging you another fiver to pour it for you.

[Sticks.]

832ark said:

The £5 pub pint includes much added value to the base beer. The double price oil adds nothing.

It does. When I used to commute 7am-7pm unless I could get oil delivered on a Saturday I'd have to make an 18 mile/hour and a half round trip into town to get some. Whether it's worth the extra is subjective but for some they are paying for convenience.

[silverfoxcc]

TL:DR

From my experience. Dealers ok, Nice cup of coffee, new coutesy car and a bill that i look at and think. Honestly?

I had a brake servo starting to have a small air leak.

Dealer New Servo etc etc

Found an indie Yep well will get a good tested S/h one with a short warranty 'just in case'
Found and fitted for less than half the main chap

Then the A/C clutch wasn't working
Rang Dealer oh new pump and all the gubbins etc etc
My new best friend dealer..Yep there a repair kits for that

Again cost a pittance compared to Dealer

OK their courtesy car is a well warn 6yr old csae, but it runs
The Coffee/teas comes in a cracked cup
Instead of a DFS suite to relax on ,there is the dogs sofa

Instead of the smarmy ( well some of them) receptionists, 'Oh your bakes pads have some wear, we think they need changing?
I get 'Enough to see you to the next service, but if in doubt give us a ring'
And that was when i had the A/C sorted about 6 weeks after the MOT

Advisories on the MOT are sorted by dealer
I ask if they need doing and get an honest answer

Dealer Different mechanics evertime i visit
Indie Same guys there for years , know the car and don't mind me in the workshop chatting and enquiring
And all are dealer trained

Downside
Dealer 15 mile away and 30-40 drive depending on traffic
Indie 60 miles away but there in 75mins and get a nice day on the coast

For me I enjoy the day out and have a few more pennies in my pocket as well

Perhaps i have been lucky, as a more local indie was ok ,but i just didn't feel comfortable with them, although they were competent

[lyonspride]

Red 4 said:

National Tyres do an oil and filter change for £50.

As far as I am aware National Tyres are not a charity and they make a profit on the job.

Main dealers charging £200 - £300 for an oil and filter are taking the piss.

I'm sure those with "main dealer experience" will be along to defend their charges.

What do I get that is any different at National Tyres compared to a franchised dealer ?

Places of that nature, will do things at a loss in order to get customers through the door, because it's an opportunity to upsell or to find other things on the car that may or may not need changing, and convince the customer to part with more money. That's is entirely how that business model works......... And they may not try it on someone who is more clued up, but that person then goes and recommends them to friends and family who are much less clued up.

[Sheepshanks]

itcaptainslow said:

However, it doesn’t mean I tar Norton Way Honda in Letchworth with the same brush, who have been nothing but exceptional with me from purchase to the ongoing servicing requirements.

It's odd how they vary - we have two Hondas in the family and the local dealer, who took over a few years ago when both the long-standing independant dealer go canned, is just appalling. Yet they're the most pushy of all the franchise dealers we know in terms of chasing us to change cars, attend events etc.

Thankfully one of the closed garages span out a servicing garage and they've been great so far. We won't be buying Hondas again though.

[Red 4]

lyonspride said:

Red 4 said:

National Tyres do an oil and filter change for £50.

As far as I am aware National Tyres are not a charity and they make a profit on the job.

Main dealers charging £200 - £300 for an oil and filter are taking the piss.

I'm sure those with "main dealer experience" will be along to defend their charges.

What do I get that is any different at National Tyres compared to a franchised dealer ?

Places of that nature, will do things at a loss in order to get customers through the door, because it's an opportunity to upsell or to find other things on the car that may or may not need changing, and convince the customer to part with more money. That's is entirely how that business model works......... And they may not try it on someone who is more clued up, but that person then goes and recommends them to friends and family who are much less clued up.

So just like main dealers then but at a fraction of the cost !!

In the past I've had a free air-con recharge, a free puncture repair and honest appraisals from fast-fit places.
They have never tried to upsell anything to me.

Main dealers have though and they were talking absolute bks.

Edited by Red 4 on Wednesday 26th February 13:49

[Sheepshanks]

swisstoni said:

Dealers are franchisees. Being a franchisee is never a very pleasant situation as you are dictated to by the manufacturer in all sorts of ways.
And you take the flac from the customer.
Nevertheless, there is clearly money to be made, otherwise there would be no dealers.
So I’m not shedding any tears for them I’m afraid.

The whole setup needs a kick up the backside and I hope that new EV makers may also bring new approaches to serving their customers.
The established names are responsible for the current miserable customer experience, not the dealers imho.

I notice Ford announcing today they're going to close half their dealerships.

I imagine, for a while, service will get even worse when people have fewer options. EVs don't really need routine servicing though, so hopefully the organisations that spring up to support them will be more competitive with each other.

[lyonspride]

Red 4 said:

lyonspride said:

Red 4 said:

National Tyres do an oil and filter change for £50.

As far as I am aware National Tyres are not a charity and they make a profit on the job.

Main dealers charging £200 - £300 for an oil and filter are taking the piss.

I'm sure those with "main dealer experience" will be along to defend their charges.

What do I get that is any different at National Tyres compared to a franchised dealer ?

Places of that nature, will do things at a loss in order to get customers through the door, because it's an opportunity to upsell or to find other things on the car that may or may not need changing, and convince the customer to part with more money. That's is entirely how that business model works......... And they may not try it on someone who is more clued up, but that person then goes and recommends them to friends and family who are much less clued up.

So just like main dealers then but at a fraction of the cost !!

In the past I've had a free air-con recharge, a free puncture repair and honest appraisals from fast-fit places.
They have never tried to upsell anything to me.

Main dealers have though and they were talking absolute bks.

Well that's because service managers at dealerships didn't come from the shop floor, they came from the sales office.