RE: Porsche 718 GTS 4.0 | PH Review
Discussion
SidewaysSi said:
Actually, I am a huge fan. The Cayman is a brilliant all rounder with great handling, fine damping and real useability.
Its steering is pretty poor though. It is something journos have said in the past...
The first quote obviously requires a zoo full of parrots.
This guy is cognitive dissonance personified or just a really poor troll.Its steering is pretty poor though. It is something journos have said in the past...
The first quote obviously requires a zoo full of parrots.
Nobody likes EPAS vs the old hydraulic but the 718 one is much better now than the old 981 ever was.
I disagree about the steering too.
The hydraulic steering on the 987 is sublime, one of the very best power assisted steering systems ever.
The steering on the 981 is indeed poor by comparison with a 987, with very little feedback and a artificial feel. It’s not “crap”, it’s accurate, and precise without slack. A lot of people got used to it and stopped noticing the lack of feel and feedback, Although the chassis of the 981 was improved over the 987 some people, like myself, could not live with the lack of feel of steering.
But the 718 came with a chassis that was better still than the 981, especially with significantly improved steering. Not quite at 987 level of feel but much better than the 981 and perhaps, since life is never perfect acceptable given the rest of the chassis improvement.
The 718 GTS (2.5T) improved the situation further, the steering in that car is actually pretty damned good and although I have only driven the GTS in basic form, I am reliably assured by a good friend and fine and critical driver that the steering improves again with PCCBs, PSP and geometry adjustments to point where it now matches his Cayman R.
So that dilemma for us 987 owners who have not yet moved on because we love our steering but also love our F6 naturally aspirated engines has now been solved.
Just have to find the money.
The hydraulic steering on the 987 is sublime, one of the very best power assisted steering systems ever.
The steering on the 981 is indeed poor by comparison with a 987, with very little feedback and a artificial feel. It’s not “crap”, it’s accurate, and precise without slack. A lot of people got used to it and stopped noticing the lack of feel and feedback, Although the chassis of the 981 was improved over the 987 some people, like myself, could not live with the lack of feel of steering.
But the 718 came with a chassis that was better still than the 981, especially with significantly improved steering. Not quite at 987 level of feel but much better than the 981 and perhaps, since life is never perfect acceptable given the rest of the chassis improvement.
The 718 GTS (2.5T) improved the situation further, the steering in that car is actually pretty damned good and although I have only driven the GTS in basic form, I am reliably assured by a good friend and fine and critical driver that the steering improves again with PCCBs, PSP and geometry adjustments to point where it now matches his Cayman R.
So that dilemma for us 987 owners who have not yet moved on because we love our steering but also love our F6 naturally aspirated engines has now been solved.
Just have to find the money.
Carl_Manchester said:
PH forum:
Me: £85k 718 GTS probably as good as a £250k Ferrari F8. Fill your boots.
Others: Would sooner drive a Miata than get mugged off by Porsche GB for this car which has a drivetrain and steering rack on par with a Hilman Imp.
You do know the firetruck water pump engined Imp was actually very successful on the rally stage don't you :-)Me: £85k 718 GTS probably as good as a £250k Ferrari F8. Fill your boots.
Others: Would sooner drive a Miata than get mugged off by Porsche GB for this car which has a drivetrain and steering rack on par with a Hilman Imp.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Shush! That's not allowed. You must either be a "PH driving god" or ridiculed for "just popping to the shops and enjoying the cupholders".Mind you - it could be worse. At least you haven't develop an affinity for accordion music and a worrying smell of garlic.
Miserablegit said:
The “block” might have been the same but with different bores, cylinders, valves and ports they were not the same engine! Just ask anyone who thought they were buying a cheap Climax for a lotus !!!
A relatively high revving all allumiium OHC engine was actually quite advanced as small car engines went at the time. Hence an odd target for derision.My words were mis-interpreted as malice against the Imp. I was merely using the Imp as a reference point to illustrate the gulf in capability between the cars, not to single out the Imp as a poor reference point.
I have a personal connection with the Imp having watched my father strip and rebuild an Imp engine on our drive way after we attempted to drive through deep water, during a nighttime storm back in the mid eighties. The Imp seized and we had to push it half a mile from home with me steering (aged 10) and my parents pushing in the rain.
I have a personal connection with the Imp having watched my father strip and rebuild an Imp engine on our drive way after we attempted to drive through deep water, during a nighttime storm back in the mid eighties. The Imp seized and we had to push it half a mile from home with me steering (aged 10) and my parents pushing in the rain.
Carl_Manchester said:
I have a personal connection with the Imp having watched my father strip and rebuild an Imp engine on our drive way after we attempted to drive through deep water, during a nighttime storm back in the mid eighties. The Imp seized and we had to push it half a mile from home with me steering (aged 10) and my parents pushing in the rain.
You’d think it’d be better at pumping water than that...
SuperPav said:
You’d think it’d be better at pumping water than that...
We had a '65 one in Blue. My Dad loved it. He could lift the engine out and move it about on one of our old baby strollers. Funny, I read now about how unreliable they were but that was mostly pre '65 mark 1s. Also, that was part of the fun in those days - lift the bonnet, start taking things apart. I remember a friend sitting in the passenger seat of his orange X/19 with the back forward and the inspection plate removed - I was driving it down the road with my hand on the distributor buggering about with dwell angle to make it run smoother. Frankly it was stupid and I didn't have a clue, but it felt cool.Pre mid 80s you always heard cars coughing and spluttering and not wanting to fire. It's amazing how far the whole industry has come along - you almost never hear a car struggle to start or notice uneven timing or even pinking.
Sorry, you got me off down memory lane. I'll shut up now.
Wollemi said:
I disagree about the steering too.
The hydraulic steering on the 987 is sublime, one of the very best power assisted steering systems ever.
The steering on the 981 is indeed poor by comparison with a 987, with very little feedback and a artificial feel. It’s not “crap”, it’s accurate, and precise without slack. A lot of people got used to it and stopped noticing the lack of feel and feedback, Although the chassis of the 981 was improved over the 987 some people, like myself, could not live with the lack of feel of steering.
But the 718 came with a chassis that was better still than the 981, especially with significantly improved steering. Not quite at 987 level of feel but much better than the 981 and perhaps, since life is never perfect acceptable given the rest of the chassis improvement.
The 718 GTS (2.5T) improved the situation further, the steering in that car is actually pretty damned good and although I have only driven the GTS in basic form, I am reliably assured by a good friend and fine and critical driver that the steering improves again with PCCBs, PSP and geometry adjustments to point where it now matches his Cayman R.
So that dilemma for us 987 owners who have not yet moved on because we love our steering but also love our F6 naturally aspirated engines has now been solved.
Just have to find the money.
This jibes pretty well with what evo wrote awhile back about the 911 GT3 vs the Evora... https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911-gt3/21697/porsch...The hydraulic steering on the 987 is sublime, one of the very best power assisted steering systems ever.
The steering on the 981 is indeed poor by comparison with a 987, with very little feedback and a artificial feel. It’s not “crap”, it’s accurate, and precise without slack. A lot of people got used to it and stopped noticing the lack of feel and feedback, Although the chassis of the 981 was improved over the 987 some people, like myself, could not live with the lack of feel of steering.
But the 718 came with a chassis that was better still than the 981, especially with significantly improved steering. Not quite at 987 level of feel but much better than the 981 and perhaps, since life is never perfect acceptable given the rest of the chassis improvement.
The 718 GTS (2.5T) improved the situation further, the steering in that car is actually pretty damned good and although I have only driven the GTS in basic form, I am reliably assured by a good friend and fine and critical driver that the steering improves again with PCCBs, PSP and geometry adjustments to point where it now matches his Cayman R.
So that dilemma for us 987 owners who have not yet moved on because we love our steering but also love our F6 naturally aspirated engines has now been solved.
Just have to find the money.
"Then you get into the Porsche and, although it’s not perfect, so much of it is so right, and it starts with the steering. It’s not as sharp as the Lotus’s but it’s connected and talkative and paints a clear picture of what’s happening that puts you at ease. Not so long ago, electric power steering, such as the 911 has, was judged inferior in feel to hydraulic power steering (now rare), which the Lotus has. This was certainly the case when the first generation 991 was new, but Porsche has been working hard on closing the gap. The sportiest 991s benefit from rear steering, sharpening initial response, but equally impressive and harder to deliver is detailed feedback. The GT3 has it in spades....
The next day starts frosty. You get a warm feeling being in the GT430; it’s the best built of all the Evoras I’ve tried, with such a reassuring sense of quality and integrity. However, heading east on the A5 out of Betws-y-Coed, up the twists between the stone walls, I’m feeling for icy patches, which again highlights the Lotus’s lack of feel. The weight, smoothness and directness of the steering are spot on, but it lacks that crucial amount of feedback that gives confidence. Further out, pressing on, the weighting becomes a fraction light and inputs reveal a light front, heavy rear balance of masses that tempers your pace a little."
I really do wonder how Porsche have been able to get an electric system, which does not have the luxury of being able to rely on hydraulic fluid- which is nearly instantaneous in its communication of the wheels movements, to work even better than what some Lotus/Loti are able to do. j
Gitwhoismiserable said:
john41901 said:
This guy is cognitive dissonance personified or just a really poor troll.
Nobody likes EPAS vs the old hydraulic but the 718 one is much better now than the old 981 ever was.
Been at the thesaurus have we, don’t make sense though, oh well nice try Nobody likes EPAS vs the old hydraulic but the 718 one is much better now than the old 981 ever was.
"I had a GT4, but it was dull. / The GTS is overpriced, but now I love it" etc etc...
I will agree with him the 981 steering is bloody awful though.
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