Does the history of a marque matter in the least??
Discussion
Let's be honest:
The Porsche independent company is gone. Just VAG
JLR is a foreign subsidiary
Bentley and RR are German,( so is Mini).
Aston is foreign owned and has had lots of component-sharing
One can look around and know the magnificent history of companies that were once truly independent....Ferrari, Maserati, Lotus and so on.
Therefore, it seems very logical to simply take each new model as it is.
New, no history, nothing to do with some romantic ( or even awful) past. Just a piece of engineering. A Tesla has the same brand value as a Caterham ( really a Lotus 7
.
I fail utterly at this because I do value the past of a given brand.
My particular bias is Porsche, but it does not matter. For me, I like to trace the car I drive back to more primitive times. I enjoy understand the development of the brand knowing fully that it is a cross-platformed vehicle in some cases.
Logically it is nonsense, but I still do it.
I have had a few of the Porsche family sign some of my cars, which is nice, but in the end the car bears zero DNE from panelbeaten 356s from Gmund.
Of course there are cars that are genuinely attached to their origin - I think of a Koenigesseg where the founder and developer is an actual person, but that is far beyond my means.
My question is:
What are the brands today that are authentic possessors of history and can connect back to their founding visionaries??
The Porsche independent company is gone. Just VAG
JLR is a foreign subsidiary
Bentley and RR are German,( so is Mini).
Aston is foreign owned and has had lots of component-sharing
One can look around and know the magnificent history of companies that were once truly independent....Ferrari, Maserati, Lotus and so on.
Therefore, it seems very logical to simply take each new model as it is.
New, no history, nothing to do with some romantic ( or even awful) past. Just a piece of engineering. A Tesla has the same brand value as a Caterham ( really a Lotus 7
.I fail utterly at this because I do value the past of a given brand.
My particular bias is Porsche, but it does not matter. For me, I like to trace the car I drive back to more primitive times. I enjoy understand the development of the brand knowing fully that it is a cross-platformed vehicle in some cases.
Logically it is nonsense, but I still do it.
I have had a few of the Porsche family sign some of my cars, which is nice, but in the end the car bears zero DNE from panelbeaten 356s from Gmund.
Of course there are cars that are genuinely attached to their origin - I think of a Koenigesseg where the founder and developer is an actual person, but that is far beyond my means.
My question is:
What are the brands today that are authentic possessors of history and can connect back to their founding visionaries??
That's not history, that's ownership.
To me, history does matter for a brand. Whether its Alfa, Mercedes, Maserati, Lancia, Jaguar etc. Its reflected in the cars they make today - well, maybe not Lancia..
Whereas Lexus for example has no real history in comparison. Does that make it worse or better? No, but its difficult to invest in a brand with no real heritage.
To me, history does matter for a brand. Whether its Alfa, Mercedes, Maserati, Lancia, Jaguar etc. Its reflected in the cars they make today - well, maybe not Lancia..
Whereas Lexus for example has no real history in comparison. Does that make it worse or better? No, but its difficult to invest in a brand with no real heritage.
The Americans and Japanese I guess. Most of Europe’s marques have been diluted due to constant buy-outs by foreign investors.
I heard the other day the Chevy Suburban is one of the longest mainstay models at something like 80+ years, which is pretty cool. Same for the f-series Fords.
I heard the other day the Chevy Suburban is one of the longest mainstay models at something like 80+ years, which is pretty cool. Same for the f-series Fords.
Edited by parabolica on Saturday 22 February 23:39
broombroomcar said:
That's not history, that's ownership.
To me, history does matter for a brand. Whether its Alfa, Mercedes, Maserati, Lancia, Jaguar etc. Its reflected in the cars they make today - well, maybe not Lancia..
Whereas Lexus for example has no real history in comparison. Does that make it worse or better? No, but its difficult to invest in a brand with no real heritage.
Toyota started making cars in the 1930’s - which is a fair chunk of history. And for anyone under 50, Lexus have been in existence their whole adult life To me, history does matter for a brand. Whether its Alfa, Mercedes, Maserati, Lancia, Jaguar etc. Its reflected in the cars they make today - well, maybe not Lancia..
Whereas Lexus for example has no real history in comparison. Does that make it worse or better? No, but its difficult to invest in a brand with no real heritage.
RDMcG said:
Let's be honest:
My particular bias is Porsche, but it does not matter. For me, I like to trace the car I drive back to more primitive times. I enjoy understand the development of the brand knowing fully that it is a cross-platformed vehicle in some cases.
Logically it is nonsense, but I still do it.
I have had a few of the Porsche family sign some of my cars, which is nice, but in the end the car bears zero DNE from panelbeaten 356s from Gmund.
I wouldn't want to trace Porsche history back too far, the man himself got lucky avoiding a noose at Nuremburg.My particular bias is Porsche, but it does not matter. For me, I like to trace the car I drive back to more primitive times. I enjoy understand the development of the brand knowing fully that it is a cross-platformed vehicle in some cases.
Logically it is nonsense, but I still do it.
I have had a few of the Porsche family sign some of my cars, which is nice, but in the end the car bears zero DNE from panelbeaten 356s from Gmund.
RDMcG said:
My question is:
What are the brands today that are authentic possessors of history and can connect back to their founding visionaries??
BMW still independent.What are the brands today that are authentic possessors of history and can connect back to their founding visionaries??
Unfortunately, the way the car market is going, they've had to go against some of their classic principles (RWD, naturally aspirated engines esp the inline 6).
I suppose brands have to develop and evolve to survive. History and nostalgia are for fanboys (*puts up hand*)
TBF, BMW have also done a great job with Mini and an amazing job with Rolls Royce so credit to them.
RDMcG said:
One can look around and know the magnificent history of companies that were once truly independent....Ferrari, Maserati, Lotus and so on.
Ferrari is currently independent, but it's spent more than half of its existence being a subsidiary of Fiat. Given the iconic models that appeared under Fiat's tenure, does the ownership really matter anyway?wisbech said:
broombroomcar said:
That's not history, that's ownership.
To me, history does matter for a brand. Whether its Alfa, Mercedes, Maserati, Lancia, Jaguar etc. Its reflected in the cars they make today - well, maybe not Lancia..
Whereas Lexus for example has no real history in comparison. Does that make it worse or better? No, but its difficult to invest in a brand with no real heritage.
Toyota started making cars in the 1930’s - which is a fair chunk of history. And for anyone under 50, Lexus have been in existence their whole adult life To me, history does matter for a brand. Whether its Alfa, Mercedes, Maserati, Lancia, Jaguar etc. Its reflected in the cars they make today - well, maybe not Lancia..
Whereas Lexus for example has no real history in comparison. Does that make it worse or better? No, but its difficult to invest in a brand with no real heritage.
Meanwhile, Lexus started in 1989 and has no real history, heritage or breeding relative to its rivals. I'm not saying they're bad cars, just not for me. It was a brand to fill a hole and look good on a spreadsheet.
a good car is a good car, and i try to be objective. Brands still have values though.
My own favourite is Lotus, who still deliver on their key attributes (and fail in same areas too).
OP says his favourite is Porsche, and that that's now just VAG. That's unfair, especially for the GT series (or even GTS!). They've stayed alive via suvs but the engineering & design core is still very much in place.
Morgan have genuine history, but sadly fail to produce at the same time (i own one btw, so that saddens me).
Renault in recent decades have enhanced their marque credibility, at least in Dieppe. Brand snobs won't be convinced and continue to drive cynically produced German stuff instead.
Audi has a very long history, but a really confused one where most people are only aware of last few decades of saloons.
Marque history does matter and can be reason to be an enthusiast. But don't get hung up on it.
My own favourite is Lotus, who still deliver on their key attributes (and fail in same areas too).
OP says his favourite is Porsche, and that that's now just VAG. That's unfair, especially for the GT series (or even GTS!). They've stayed alive via suvs but the engineering & design core is still very much in place.
Morgan have genuine history, but sadly fail to produce at the same time (i own one btw, so that saddens me).
Renault in recent decades have enhanced their marque credibility, at least in Dieppe. Brand snobs won't be convinced and continue to drive cynically produced German stuff instead.
Audi has a very long history, but a really confused one where most people are only aware of last few decades of saloons.
Marque history does matter and can be reason to be an enthusiast. But don't get hung up on it.
jamei303 said:
It's interesting but how many Audi buyers know what the boy's wish is?
It's all about the monthlies and how many inches of wheel there are.
Rasmussen's original design was for a steam car or DampfKraftWagen so Des Knaben Wunsch for the toy engine and Das Kleine Wunder for the full size motorbike that followed were slightly contrived nicknames.It's all about the monthlies and how many inches of wheel there are.
That BMW actually originated as Bei Mercedes Weggeworfen is another discussion altogether...
Regardless of who owns a certain marque, the history of that marque does matter.
Even if a marque changes ownership, the vast majority of the employees - and therefore the culture and way of thinking - stays the same. This is then reflected in the style of that brand's vehicles, how they drive, how they look, the materials used, etc.
Even if a marque changes ownership, the vast majority of the employees - and therefore the culture and way of thinking - stays the same. This is then reflected in the style of that brand's vehicles, how they drive, how they look, the materials used, etc.
broombroomcar said:
...well, maybe not Lancia.
Harsh, but true. 
mike-v2tmf said:
How many of you own a Skoda ?
... A company with a fine and distinguished engineering history. They took a dip under communism (whilst still managing some notable class wins in rallying), but you can hardly blame them for that... it's a better excuse than Lancia has, at any rate!
Equus said:
broombroomcar said:
...well, maybe not Lancia.
Harsh, but true. mike-v2tmf said:
How many of you own a Skoda ?
... A company with a fine and distinguished engineering history. They took a dip under communism (whilst still managing some notable class wins in rallying), but you can hardly blame them for that... it's a better excuse than Lancia has, at any rate!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff