RE: Audi RS6 vs. AMG E63 S | Time for Tea
Discussion
sasha320 said:
Baldchap said:
Problem is, you hand a car to a journo for ten minutes and they'll tell you all about going sideways and lap times, both utterly irrelevant to most of us for a vehicle like this.
I guarantee, when joining a busy road via right angle slip road in cold and sleet with the kids in the back (as I did last night in the RS4) there's not one person would prefer the Merc. Same for driving to Spain (which I did in an RS5 in summer). These aren't track cars, they're absolutely excellent every day with kids and dogs cars. But that takes more than going sideways for three minutes to discover.
I agree with your point that that these cars are not really for the track. However (and I’m not trying to be argumentative), but why wouldn’t someone want to be in the E63S when joining a busy road in the cold with sleet?I guarantee, when joining a busy road via right angle slip road in cold and sleet with the kids in the back (as I did last night in the RS4) there's not one person would prefer the Merc. Same for driving to Spain (which I did in an RS5 in summer). These aren't track cars, they're absolutely excellent every day with kids and dogs cars. But that takes more than going sideways for three minutes to discover.
The E63S has plenty of power to be able to speed match the flowing traffic, 4 wheel drive and as much or as little space as other estates for the kids and all the other stuff that comes with them.
Arguably the ride would be more pleasant in the Merc than an RS Audi on a long motorway road trip too?
te.jago-fq3vy said:
My previous RS6 understeered the whole way round Silverstone, it was utterly pointless, cost me a fortune in brakes and petrol and achieved nothing, ..
Probably why manufacturers and 99% of owners don't care about track performance at all in cars like these.Take them to Bruntingthorpe to max them out by all means but track driving? why?
Davey S2 said:
Probably why manufacturers and 99% of owners don't care about track performance at all in cars like these.
Take them to Bruntingthorpe to max them out by all means but track driving? why?
Because it’s fun.Take them to Bruntingthorpe to max them out by all means but track driving? why?
Plain and simple.
I’ve had my Merc around Silverstone and Bedford several times. It’s an absolute hoot and allows me to find out that the car can actually do a whole lot more than the obvious
No it isn’t a track car but it’s not a competition, there are no prizes and it’s a great way to induce smiles
Edit to add - it’s a lot more fun than Bruntingthorpe where hitting the limiter over and over again with so much more headroom left to play with is just frustrating.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 26th February 14:31
Brooking10 said:
Davey S2 said:
Probably why manufacturers and 99% of owners don't care about track performance at all in cars like these.
Take them to Bruntingthorpe to max them out by all means but track driving? why?
Because it’s fun.Take them to Bruntingthorpe to max them out by all means but track driving? why?
Plain and simple.
I’ve had my Merc around Silverstone and Bedford several times. It’s an absolute hoot and allows me to find out that the car can actually do a whole lot more than the obvious
No it isn’t a track car but it’s not a competition, there are no prizes and it’s a great way to induce smiles
Edit to add - it’s a lot more fun than Bruntingthorpe where hitting the limiter over and over again with so much more headroom left to play with is just frustrating.
Agreed !!!!
Jesus , some people need to lighten up it’s just a video , 2 awesome cars out of their natural habitat going round a circuit, I’m sure it’s of great interest if you are in the market for one of these
Edited by Brooking10 on Wednesday 26th February 14:31
NGK210 said:
sasha320 said:
Onehp said:
NGK210 said:
Seems that many are determined to not let the facts get in the way of prejudice and bias, so let’s clarify the tyre specs outlined in the vid:
RS6’s tyre: Hankook Ventus S1 Evo3.
E63 S’s tyre: Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S.
Of course the E63 is quicker and has less understeer - it’s on better tyres
Which is perhaps even more mind-boggling, super expensive ceramics, carbon bits, wide arches... But proper tyres no can do. Fits right into my prejudices of folks spending on big fancy rims and then when they see tyre prices, put on cheap rubber... RS6’s tyre: Hankook Ventus S1 Evo3.
E63 S’s tyre: Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S.
Of course the E63 is quicker and has less understeer - it’s on better tyres
https://alltyretests.com/hankook-ventus-s1-evo3-k1...
Maybe the margins between the two brands of tyres are amplified on the track? If not, they may well have been on a similar performing tyre.
I am going to examine my prejudices regarding the Hankook brand and see whether these Hankook tyres are in fact a clever choice...
You’re correct, the Ventus S1 Evo3 compares well(ish) with the PS4.
But the E63 in the vid is NOT on the PS4, it’s on the PS4 S.
Compared to the vanilla PS4, the S-version is 1-second per lap quicker around a c. 1:17 circuit - E63 was 0.6sec quicker around a c. 1:57 circuit than RS6 - and more suited to track work, as this Tyre Reviews vid proves:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aMv64liOqIE
Forget about that Hankook rubbish...
Onehp said:
Which is perhaps even more mind-boggling, super expensive ceramics, carbon bits, wide arches... But proper tyres no can do. Fits right into my prejudices of folks spending on big fancy rims and then when they see tyre prices, put on cheap rubber...
I presume that they are both staff cars, the tyres would be fitted by the manufacturer so have nothing to do with ‘folks’. Hankook are a major supplier to Audi, but my own RS6 came with Dunlop’s from new and they were ok, it’s now on Michelin’s. I hope I haven’t let you and your prejudice down. Blue62 said:
Onehp said:
Which is perhaps even more mind-boggling, super expensive ceramics, carbon bits, wide arches... But proper tyres no can do. Fits right into my prejudices of folks spending on big fancy rims and then when they see tyre prices, put on cheap rubber...
I presume that they are both staff cars, the tyres would be fitted by the manufacturer so have nothing to do with ‘folks’. Hankook are a major supplier to Audi, but my own RS6 came with Dunlop’s from new and they were ok, it’s now on Michelin’s. I hope I haven’t let you and your prejudice down. MPS4S with MO markings on mine from the factory and the same have gone every time I’ve needed replacements
I’m guessing the Hankooks as you say are Audi fitment as opposed fitted by some bloke conforming to a PHers weird prejudice
sasha320 said:
NGK210 said:
sasha320 said:
Onehp said:
NGK210 said:
Seems that many are determined to not let the facts get in the way of prejudice and bias, so let’s clarify the tyre specs outlined in the vid:
RS6’s tyre: Hankook Ventus S1 Evo3.
E63 S’s tyre: Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S.
Of course the E63 is quicker and has less understeer - it’s on better tyres
Which is perhaps even more mind-boggling, super expensive ceramics, carbon bits, wide arches... But proper tyres no can do. Fits right into my prejudices of folks spending on big fancy rims and then when they see tyre prices, put on cheap rubber... RS6’s tyre: Hankook Ventus S1 Evo3.
E63 S’s tyre: Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S.
Of course the E63 is quicker and has less understeer - it’s on better tyres
https://alltyretests.com/hankook-ventus-s1-evo3-k1...
Maybe the margins between the two brands of tyres are amplified on the track? If not, they may well have been on a similar performing tyre.
I am going to examine my prejudices regarding the Hankook brand and see whether these Hankook tyres are in fact a clever choice...
You’re correct, the Ventus S1 Evo3 compares well(ish) with the PS4.
But the E63 in the vid is NOT on the PS4, it’s on the PS4 S.
Compared to the vanilla PS4, the S-version is 1-second per lap quicker around a c. 1:17 circuit - E63 was 0.6sec quicker around a c. 1:57 circuit than RS6 - and more suited to track work, as this Tyre Reviews vid proves:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aMv64liOqIE
Forget about that Hankook rubbish...
But what also seems amazing, almost too good to be true, is the trackday tyre that's also more than half-decent in the wet, and it's road-legal - the Giti Sport GTR3. The who..?? The what..?? See below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb6VG8wLLTc
I really don't understand why the Audi was tested with Hankooks - or even why it is wearing them at all: you CAN actually spec the Michelins from new. It may well be a great all round road tyre - maybe better wear rate is preferable than all out track performance to most punters, which is absolutely fair enough. But as a track tyre up against the PS's? Not a chance!
Arsecati said:
I really don't understand why the Audi was tested with Hankooks - or even why it is wearing them at all: you CAN actually spec the Michelins from new. It may well be a great all round road tyre - maybe better wear rate is preferable than all out track performance to most punters, which is absolutely fair enough. But as a track tyre up against the PS's? Not a chance!
Because that’s what they were given and both are boxfresh examples of exactly what punters would receive as standard ETA - there seems to be a whole lot of overthinking going on in certain posts. The article is right in that the track is neither the natural home nor a frequent destination for this type of car. But ... as I said earlier it’s a fun thing to do to find out about the limits and capabilities. Owners are therefore highly unlikely to go to the lengths of specifically configuring and tyre changing their cars just for a thrash around their local track. They’ll check the fluids, check the lads and trad and get on and enjoy themselves knowing full well that the aim of the day is not to somehow try and match the bloke in the garage next door with his Caterham.
It’s highly likely that end of said day both of these cars would need new rubber, at which point the sensible Audi driver would seek out 4 x nice new MPS
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th February 07:20
Arsecati said:
I really don't understand why the Audi was tested with Hankooks - or even why it is wearing them at all: you CAN actually spec the Michelins from new.
I have never seen an option (or been asked) to specify a particular tyre on a new car, you get whatever the manufacturer is fitting at the time. Could you show me some proof of your claim?Blue62 said:
I have never seen an option (or been asked) to specify a particular tyre on a new car, you get whatever the manufacturer is fitting at the time. Could you show me some proof of your claim?
Then you need to speak to your dealer - it is not uncommon at all to have different tyre combinations available on a new car, though this may depend on the size of wheel you specify that different options are available for that particular wheel. You even acknowledge this yourself above by accepting that Hankook 'are a major supplier' to Audi, but your own came with Dunlops, so clearly alternatives ARE available when new. Regardless, just go on to the Audi Configurator and change alloys - there ya go, nice new Michelins: as I said, this is very common practice, but I'm guessing you just went for standard wheels and just accepted what tyres came on them - I'd prefer Dunlops to Hankooks, so reckon you did fine.
Arsecati said:
Then you need to speak to your dealer - it is not uncommon at all to have different tyre combinations available on a new car, though this may depend on the size of wheel you specify that different options are available for that particular wheel. You even acknowledge this yourself above by accepting that Hankook 'are a major supplier' to Audi, but your own came with Dunlops, so clearly alternatives ARE available when new.
Regardless, just go on to the Audi Configurator and change alloys - there ya go, nice new Michelins: as I said, this is very common practice, but I'm guessing you just went for standard wheels and just accepted what tyres came on them - I'd prefer Dunlops to Hankooks, so reckon you did fine.
There is no tyre option, just wheel options so the tyre you get is outside of your control. My previous RS was fitted with Bridgestones, this one with Dunlop’s. I’ve no doubt I could speak to my dealer, but it would involve binning the OEM tyre, I dread to think how many new cars I have purchased over the years and I promise you I have never been given an option on tyre choice. The nearest to it was when I bought a car from stock and had the choice, dealer was surprised I was bothered!Regardless, just go on to the Audi Configurator and change alloys - there ya go, nice new Michelins: as I said, this is very common practice, but I'm guessing you just went for standard wheels and just accepted what tyres came on them - I'd prefer Dunlops to Hankooks, so reckon you did fine.
Blue62 said:
There is no tyre option, just wheel options so the tyre you get is outside of your control. My previous RS was fitted with Bridgestones, this one with Dunlop’s. I’ve no doubt I could speak to my dealer, but it would involve binning the OEM tyre, I dread to think how many new cars I have purchased over the years and I promise you I have never been given an option on tyre choice. The nearest to it was when I bought a car from stock and had the choice, dealer was surprised I was bothered!
Yeah, ok man, whatever you say, we'll leave it at that then.So basically down to tyres then.
All pretty irrelevant. I did a few laps in my C7 Performance for a laugh once, but I would never do a full track day in a car over 1500kg. They aren't fun and eat consumables.
I credit the E63 owner doing trackdays in his over people who do nothing, but nevertheless if you genuinely think it is fun, then try an actual track-focused car. Even try my £3,000 Clio 182; bet it's sideways far more often that the Merc.
All pretty irrelevant. I did a few laps in my C7 Performance for a laugh once, but I would never do a full track day in a car over 1500kg. They aren't fun and eat consumables.
I credit the E63 owner doing trackdays in his over people who do nothing, but nevertheless if you genuinely think it is fun, then try an actual track-focused car. Even try my £3,000 Clio 182; bet it's sideways far more often that the Merc.
thelostboy said:
So basically down to tyres then.
All pretty irrelevant. I did a few laps in my C7 Performance for a laugh once, but I would never do a full track day in a car over 1500kg. They aren't fun and eat consumables.
I credit the E63 owner doing trackdays in his over people who do nothing, but nevertheless if you genuinely think it is fun, then try an actual track-focused car. Even try my £3,000 Clio 182; bet it's sideways far more often that the Merc.
I’ve not got a stable as replete as yours but there are other things that are more fit for purpose as regards track days accessible to me.All pretty irrelevant. I did a few laps in my C7 Performance for a laugh once, but I would never do a full track day in a car over 1500kg. They aren't fun and eat consumables.
I credit the E63 owner doing trackdays in his over people who do nothing, but nevertheless if you genuinely think it is fun, then try an actual track-focused car. Even try my £3,000 Clio 182; bet it's sideways far more often that the Merc.
Fun comes in lots of shapes and sizes in my view. The incongruity of a big fast estate car on a track is but one form.
Edit - as for sideways then I reckon with the Merc in its RWD only mode then it’llbe more sideways, more often than you might imagine.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th February 13:17
Brooking10 said:
Blue62 said:
Onehp said:
Which is perhaps even more mind-boggling, super expensive ceramics, carbon bits, wide arches... But proper tyres no can do. Fits right into my prejudices of folks spending on big fancy rims and then when they see tyre prices, put on cheap rubber...
I presume that they are both staff cars, the tyres would be fitted by the manufacturer so have nothing to do with ‘folks’. Hankook are a major supplier to Audi, but my own RS6 came with Dunlop’s from new and they were ok, it’s now on Michelin’s. I hope I haven’t let you and your prejudice down. MPS4S with MO markings on mine from the factory and the same have gone every time I’ve needed replacements
I’m guessing the Hankooks as you say are Audi fitment as opposed fitted by some bloke conforming to a PHers weird prejudice
At the same time, no prejudice against anybody that likes an RS6, I do but as an enthusiast of driving I do expect better than above average Hankooks on a 110k plus purchase...
PS: same goes for 22" rims, really that's too much and... limits tyre choice...
Edited by Onehp on Thursday 27th February 17:46
Onehp said:
I see I was unclear. I meant that AUDI think their buyers won't care about the tyres and can get away with not having the very best, while they can charge a lot for blingy stuff - you have to agree the new RS6 style is going big on this kind of appeal.
At the same time, no prejudice against anybody that likes an RS6, I do but as an enthusiast of driving I do expect better than above average Hankooks on a 110k plus purchase...
PS: same goes for 22" rims, really that's too much and... limits tyre choice...
The 22's come on Michelins. At the same time, no prejudice against anybody that likes an RS6, I do but as an enthusiast of driving I do expect better than above average Hankooks on a 110k plus purchase...
PS: same goes for 22" rims, really that's too much and... limits tyre choice...
Edited by Onehp on Thursday 27th February 17:46
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