RE: Six of the best | Four-cylinder engines
Discussion
A series powered many things but is such an asthmatic unit and very basic. Dependable yes, but exciting definitely not. 'Best' can mean many things to many people but as this is PH surely we should be judging and engine by its relative bhp per litre and reliability coupled with its soundtrack?
samoht said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I know that it is probably unfair but I do really struggle to get excited by a 4 cylinder engine. But after a few tweaks the SR20DET engine I had did put a smile on my face for sure. Once fettled I even enjoyed the noise the decatted stainless exhaust made too. 
Taking the SR20 as a whole, you've also got the BTCC Primeras, a short-lived rally Sunny as well as a majority of drift cars; it's definitely a significant engine and one that was very advanced for the late 80s.On my second one I go it breathing a bit better with an HKS induction kit and cat-back exhaust but it still sounded pretty "meh".
Maybe it was the turbo muffling everything.
Shame, because functionally they were brilliant.
AC43 said:
samoht said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I know that it is probably unfair but I do really struggle to get excited by a 4 cylinder engine. But after a few tweaks the SR20DET engine I had did put a smile on my face for sure. Once fettled I even enjoyed the noise the decatted stainless exhaust made too.
Taking the SR20 as a whole, you've also got the BTCC Primeras, a short-lived rally Sunny as well as a majority of drift cars; it's definitely a significant engine and one that was very advanced for the late 80s.On my second one I go it breathing a bit better with an HKS induction kit and cat-back exhaust but it still sounded pretty "meh".
Maybe it was the turbo muffling everything.
Shame, because functionally they were brilliant.
Uncle John said:
Alfa Romeo Boxer deserves a mention.
This, particularly the 1.5 twin carb version which in my opinion is better than the 1.7.The 1.5 was very smooth, free revving and sounded great, I never driven a better 4 cylinder engine and I have driven a lot including some on the above list. I think it misses out in these sorts of lists because so many people have never experienced one.
Tickle said:
AI1694 said:
I would have thought the VW/Audi 2.0 TSI would have made the list. Been around in various iterations for a while now and used in many of their cars.
More of a tool to do a job than a special engine, in the context of this thread anyway.Definately this:
Let me explain why:
It was an engine (XU9) that made significantly more power when released in 1998 than the vast majority of 8v & 16v competitors, even in std production tune. Making 160 bhp vs 120 to 130 bhp typically for it's competition . Even the powerful Vauxhall XE 2.0 16v'er with it's Cosworth head had to give second best in terms of power, although only just in non cat format. The Pug engine was also a very sweet rev'er, making power at 6500rpm to 7k, just when most contemporary engines were all done, and certainly a lot sounded rather strained above 6k.
But what marks it out as special for me is the exceptional design detail and architecture put into the engine, either through 'over specification' or with an eye on future competition useage (most probably, a bit of both). Things like huge diameter valve buckets, meaning a high lift cam with a large base circle could be accommodated without significant metal work mods. Really, really nice intake ports and both large diameter valves (for a big total valve area) but also with perfect spacing, angle and relatively small stems to allow larger valves to be inserted, again without significant rework required. Capable of an easy 100bhp/litre without significant internal work, and up to 130 bhp/litre in more exotic states of tune (Touring car etc).
Although largely conventional for the time, the bottom end of the engine did use an atypical alluminium wet linered architecture, making it significantly lower mass than it's competitors, something that really matters for lightweight FWD applications. It also was 'square' at 86 x 86 bore/stroke meaning with it's tall block it had decent rod angularity and a good total valve area potential.
IMO, until BMW released their S50B32 engine in the E36 M3, 8 years later in 1996, this little 4 cyl engine probably had the best production cylinder head ever made!
(The 2.0 16v XE gets an honerable mention and probably slots into second place, because whislt it had a similar ultimate power potential, i mark it down for requiring more rework/mods to get big big power, and for simply not being as nicely made in std production format)
Let me explain why:
It was an engine (XU9) that made significantly more power when released in 1998 than the vast majority of 8v & 16v competitors, even in std production tune. Making 160 bhp vs 120 to 130 bhp typically for it's competition . Even the powerful Vauxhall XE 2.0 16v'er with it's Cosworth head had to give second best in terms of power, although only just in non cat format. The Pug engine was also a very sweet rev'er, making power at 6500rpm to 7k, just when most contemporary engines were all done, and certainly a lot sounded rather strained above 6k.
But what marks it out as special for me is the exceptional design detail and architecture put into the engine, either through 'over specification' or with an eye on future competition useage (most probably, a bit of both). Things like huge diameter valve buckets, meaning a high lift cam with a large base circle could be accommodated without significant metal work mods. Really, really nice intake ports and both large diameter valves (for a big total valve area) but also with perfect spacing, angle and relatively small stems to allow larger valves to be inserted, again without significant rework required. Capable of an easy 100bhp/litre without significant internal work, and up to 130 bhp/litre in more exotic states of tune (Touring car etc).
Although largely conventional for the time, the bottom end of the engine did use an atypical alluminium wet linered architecture, making it significantly lower mass than it's competitors, something that really matters for lightweight FWD applications. It also was 'square' at 86 x 86 bore/stroke meaning with it's tall block it had decent rod angularity and a good total valve area potential.
IMO, until BMW released their S50B32 engine in the E36 M3, 8 years later in 1996, this little 4 cyl engine probably had the best production cylinder head ever made!
(The 2.0 16v XE gets an honerable mention and probably slots into second place, because whislt it had a similar ultimate power potential, i mark it down for requiring more rework/mods to get big big power, and for simply not being as nicely made in std production format)
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 15th March 12:25
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 15th March 12:43
jet_noise said:
@MT
What is it, please?
Peugeot Mi16 Engine in XU9 format. A 2.0 litre 16 valver, first production in the 405 mi16 of 1988. What is it, please?
Went on to form the basis of "Hot" Peugeot and Citroen engines for 15 years!
I've never established its exact lineage, but it certainly owes something to the pure motorsport 16v engines used by Peugeot for their dominant Group B 205 Turbo 16. If the road engine cylinder head was designed by the motorsports team i wouldn't be suprised looking at its architecture!
I may be biased because I own one, but the Toyota 2ZZ-GE (very high-revving with variable lift) deserves a mention.
And at the other end of things, some sort of Volvo four, either the redblock B21 or its pushrod B18/B20 predecessors. Not always inspiring, but bulletproof and very tuneable.
And at the other end of things, some sort of Volvo four, either the redblock B21 or its pushrod B18/B20 predecessors. Not always inspiring, but bulletproof and very tuneable.
Max_Torque said:
jet_noise said:
@MT
What is it, please?
Peugeot Mi16 Engine in XU9 format. A 2.0 litre 16 valver, first production in the 405 mi16 of 1988. What is it, please?
Went on to form the basis of "Hot" Peugeot and Citroen engines for 15 years!
I've never established its exact lineage, but it certainly owes something to the pure motorsport 16v engines used by Peugeot for their dominant Group B 205 Turbo 16. If the road engine cylinder head was designed by the motorsports team i wouldn't be suprised looking at its architecture!
Pooh said:
This, particularly the 1.5 twin carb version which in my opinion is better than the 1.7.
The 1.5 was very smooth, free revving and sounded great, I never driven a better 4 cylinder engine and I have driven a lot including some on the above list. I think it misses out in these sorts of lists because so many people have never experienced one.
The original 1186cc feels even sweeter than the 1.5. Revs ridiculously high. I had one in my first car and compared to contemporary Novas/metros etc it was a world apart. Even came with a 5 speed box!The 1.5 was very smooth, free revving and sounded great, I never driven a better 4 cylinder engine and I have driven a lot including some on the above list. I think it misses out in these sorts of lists because so many people have never experienced one.
helix402 said:
Pooh said:
This, particularly the 1.5 twin carb version which in my opinion is better than the 1.7.
The 1.5 was very smooth, free revving and sounded great, I never driven a better 4 cylinder engine and I have driven a lot including some on the above list. I think it misses out in these sorts of lists because so many people have never experienced one.
The original 1186cc feels even sweeter than the 1.5. Revs ridiculously high. I had one in my first car and compared to contemporary Novas/metros etc it was a world apart. Even came with a 5 speed box!The 1.5 was very smooth, free revving and sounded great, I never driven a better 4 cylinder engine and I have driven a lot including some on the above list. I think it misses out in these sorts of lists because so many people have never experienced one.
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