RE: BMW i8 | PH Carbituary

[markcoopers]

Genuine question to those owners on here, but how long a test drive did you need to fall in love with the I8?

I had a 15min "dealer" special and liked the car but they were not so keen to allow a longer drive and rather hoped I would sign there and then. I know this is not likely to be typical, but I was going to ask for a day with the car but just wanted to check that I was not being too off the mark.

[blearyeyedboy]

DaveTheRave87 said:

Still would.

Me too.

[BishBosh]

markcoopers said:

Genuine question to those owners on here, but how long a test drive did you need to fall in love with the I8?

I had a 15min "dealer" special and liked the car but they were not so keen to allow a longer drive and rather hoped I would sign there and then. I know this is not likely to be typical, but I was going to ask for a day with the car but just wanted to check that I was not being too off the mark.

I had one on test for a couple of days when they were launched and took it up to Cleethorpes. Really enjoyed driving it but couldn’t part with the cash at the time, thought it was too expensive.
Now however.....price seems fair.

Cleethorpes....

[ooid]

Really nice and different cars.. the price needed a massive correction though which is what’s happening now.

[speedy_un]

markcoopers said:

Genuine question to those owners on here, but how long a test drive did you need to fall in love with the I8?

I had a 15min "dealer" special and liked the car but they were not so keen to allow a longer drive and rather hoped I would sign there and then. I know this is not likely to be typical, but I was going to ask for a day with the car but just wanted to check that I was not being too off the mark.

I borrowed one for a weekend when they first launched - the (family) decision was made within 24hrs, but I waited a year for the speculators to have their fun and then got a Pure Impulse car (all options) for a lot less money.

For me it wasn't (and still isn't) just 'falling in love' with the i8 - it's the whole package.
Don't try to compare it with anything else - because after a couple of days you realise there is nothing to compare it to. If you want a 911, then buy a 911.
And to those that wished it had a 'more expensive' V10 or straight six (see an earlier post in this thread), that is now a big plus point for me, and maybe for other used buyers... the super low running costs continue, but it's even better you because don't have to worry about incredibly technical and potentially very expensive problems/maintenance issues that come with a V10 etc. It's really just a Mini engine, and the whole drive-train seems to be very reliable.

It doesn't bother me at all that there's a 1.5 3 cylinder Mini engine in it - it's plenty fast enough for most on-road situations, and I can tell you that when someone comes over to ask about the car (frequently) they generally assume it's electric, and even when I tell them it's got a mini engine they are too busy looking at the car and rarely register any interest what I just said about the engine.

It's only really with PH and the like that it's an issue. So it's not an issue.

[BishBosh]

speedy_un said:

I borrowed one for a weekend when they first launched - the (family) decision was made within 24hrs, but I waited a year for the speculators to have their fun and then got a Pure Impulse car (all options) for a lot less money.

For me it wasn't (and still isn't) just 'falling in love' with the i8 - it's the whole package.
Don't try to compare it with anything else - because after a couple of days you realise there is nothing to compare it to. If you want a 911, then buy a 911.
And to those that wished it had a 'more expensive' V10 or straight six (see an earlier post in this thread), that is now a big plus point for me, and maybe for other used buyers... the super low running costs continue, but it's even better you because don't have to worry about incredibly technical and potentially very expensive problems/maintenance issues that come with a V10 etc. It's really just a Mini engine, and the whole drive-train seems to be very reliable.

It doesn't bother me at all that there's a 1.5 3 cylinder Mini engine in it - it's plenty fast enough for most on-road situations, and I can tell you that when someone comes over to ask about the car (frequently) they generally assume it's electric, and even when I tell them it's got a mini engine they are too busy looking at the car and rarely register any interest what I just said about the engine.

It's only really with PH and the like that it's an issue. So it's not an issue.

amongst other things I agree with your post. You can look at it’s shortcomings as you can on most cars but overall, and will admit I’m biased due to obvious reasons, it’s a cracking car and one I look forward to driving, cleaning and just looking at so a good buy.

[Mr Squarekins]

I've done 24k miles in mine this year as a daily. I still absolutely love it. Nothing like it on the road for similar money and running costs.

People seem to love it. Chris Harris was spot on when he said that people see it as a bit of a folk hero.

It's a great and misunderstood car by those who haven't owned one and well appreciated by those that have.

[canucklehead]

Am I the only person who thinks this was a bit of a mess stylistically? Especially from the rear. I also never liked the too obvious "look how forward thinking we are" message. To me it is just a stupid expensive Prius with a BMW badge.

[Fittster]

What I don't understand is why people talk about the running costs.

Who buys a 120k sports car and worries about the running costs? Even for the small minority of people who value low running costs, surely the depreciation in the i8 don't make its running costs particularly cheap.

[TypeRTim]

Love the armchair experts on this forum saying they should sling a straight 6 in there! Has there ever been a mid-engined straight 6 other than the M1? (which had a tubular steel space frame chassis, making that layout possible)

The engine on this is mounted transversely, to allow for the gearbox packaging similar to a front drive car. ie: the gearbox hangs off the side with an integrated differential and final drive with unequal length drive shafts to the rear wheels. A straight 6 mounted transversely would be far too wide for this application. If they mounted it longitudinally, the gearbox would be off the back of the engine and you would then have to have a separate differential and final drive unit to then change the direction of the drive movement from the N/S of the engine configuration to the E/W of the wheel arrangement. This would change the entire packaging and proportions of the car, making it have a very elongated rear end and a very cab-forward stance. They could, of course, develop a bespoke transaxle for the car, with the gearbox, differential and final drive in it and have a bit more freedom with Engine choice, but none of their engines are designed for a mid layout and none of their power units then were designed and packaged to have the wheels driven at the same end as the engine.

The engine from the Mini made sense because it is the only compact, transverse, (moderately) high output engine they have. Any other engine would have made huge compromises on the packaging and styling to make it relevant, not to mention bespoke tooling, mounting, gearboxes etc. A different engine would have probably put another 30-40k on list prices and also would have meant it couldn't capitalise as much on the 'efficient dynamics' concept it was designed for.

[Numpty with honours]

I bought mine 5 years ago with 1300 miles and have done 57,000 miles. I therefore can speak with some authority about owning and running the car. I also own a new Honda NSX and make the following comments

1) The NSX is very very fast and holds the road as if on rails. The i8 is fast but it’s all about efficiency . The NSX will deliver 17 MPG in sports mode and around 27 MPG in EV mode. The i8 on a long run on the motorway can deliver 45 MPG, rapidly falling away if you go much above 70 . Around town circa 35MPG . The wide tyres on the NSX do give that assurance whereas the narrower tyres on the i8 do leave me at times thinking the car is floating a little - but still good. The narrow tyres and the busy back end do not give it a powerful look at the rea whereas the NSX is really most impressive from the rear

2) Running costs - i8 if you exclude depreciation is very economical - zero RFL, servicing costs in the low hundreds, only 3 services in 57,000. Tire ware is around 13,000 - 18,000 miles but whilst the tyres are narrow because of the unusual size they are reasonably expensive. The NSX rear tyres lasted all of 6000 miles and being 305 they run out at £250 per tyre - expensive but not stratospheric. The NSX - the first three services are included so I have no idea what it will cost, but I suspect it will be very high. There is only one service centre in Chiswick , London and a covered trailer has to pick up the vehicle at Honda's expense ( in those first three services) it has to be covered so that the car is not seen on the back of a trailer suggesting it has broken down! Depreciation on the Honda - £137k to £80k in three years and 8,500 miles - not good and I really don’t know why. The i8 went from £108k to £38k in 5 years, but the depreciation in the last couple of years was relatively benign. Aside from a problem with the petrol cap on the i8 I have had no problems at all with the car - nothing in 57,000 miles . Neither have I had any issues with the NSX in the 8,500 miles I have owned the car

3) Practicality - the doors on the i8 serve no useful purpose. The amount of space required to get out of the car when parking next to another car is the same if not a bit more. The boot and the rear seats enable you to carry most items and the rear seats can indeed accommodate small children as I do transport my 9 year olds around in it . The NSX has a very wide boot and indeed a set of golf clubs can be put in the boot. They will be warm when you get them out - ruined a rather nice Easter egg - a molten lump not helped by a particularly warm day. The sat nav on the Honda is rather surprisingly dated, but if you have an iphone and plug it in , it overrides that system and the joys of Wazes and Google Maps appear and it really is quite useful. The heads up display in the i8 should, and I see no reason why, be on all cars, it is so much easier to control your speed when it is always in your line of sight. Very surprisingly the wing mirrors on the NSX do not fold automatically unless you physically manoeuvre them into position and they do stick out and you would want to fold them in if going through a pinch barrier

An i8 at around £40,000 - £45,000 would be a good buy. It wont depreciate like it has done and its reliability and efficiency makes its running costs relatively modest. The practicality of it having 4 seats makes it easier for those with children to justify ( or talk yourself into it) The NSX with a 2,000 could probably be got now for around £75,000 to £80,000 which for a high-performance car from a highly reliable manufacture is good deal, better that an R8 of which I have owned two in my time but what it will cost to run in terms of servicing and repairs I don’t know – I fear quite a bit, but then if you are buying that sort of car there is no fun in owning it if you live in fear of its servicing and repair costs. The NSX has to be one of the cars you own it cant be used as a daily car

[Toltec]

Numpty with honours said:

i8/NSX comparison

Thanks, useful real life review

[RoverP6B]

Transverse I6s have been done several times, including by Volvo, Daewoo (with a Porsche-designed 2.0 I6) and even by BMW (their K1600GT motorbike). Don't tell me there isn't room in the i8 for a transverse B58, for example, although my suggestion was for a longitudinal V8.

[Shnozz]

Toltec said:

Thanks, useful real life review

Indeed.

How did the public react to the two cars out of interest?

[Numpty with honours]

Shnozz said:

Toltec said:

Thanks, useful real life review

Indeed.

How did the public react to the two cars out of interest?

The BMW i8 particularly in the early days caused a great deal of interest and I was quite often asked for my views on it

The NSX not so much, yet only 35 cars I believe have ever been sold in the UK in three years out of the 208 sold in Europe in that three year period [ https://carsalesbase.com/europe-honda-nsx/ ] - those who do ask me about it usually state they have never seen one on the road. Indeed when the car was picked up for its service the driver was surprised I had done, at the time, some 5,500 [ about the highest he had ever seen and the car was 2 years old then ] - many think it’s a Lamborghini . Regrettably I don’t think it will be seen as a classic, I think the hybrid car will be seen as the swan song for the fossil fuel car as we have to embrace pure electric cars in the next 10 -15 years

I do find it surprising the sales are so low compared to the Audi R8 – that sells around 1200 cars a year in Europe [ https://carsalesbase.com/europe-audi-R8/ ] which must be its most obvious competitor - its price is in the same territory and the benchmark performance figures would have the NSX having the edge - personally I think the NSX looks marginally better . Those who are knowledgeable on cars when discussing the car with me invariably comment on Honda's bullet proof build quality. A comment I do get is along the lines of, "why for that money did you not buy a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche ?" to which I reply that I really rate very highly reliability

If I had to guess why sales are so very poor I think it is down to badge snobbery. I had a succession of three NSX in the mid 1990's and the reliability was truly exceptional which influenced my decision to buy the current model. The fact it is so underrated as was the earlier NSX (and indeed the same can be said of the S2000) made me buy it.- I suppose at some level I want to be different and following the herd is not my thing. I paid list (a big mistake) but now at £80,000 you can buy a 2017 model with 2000 miles on the clock it has to be a worthwhile purchase. I would think at this exact moment if one was prepared to sign a finance agreement/or have cleared funds in the bank – I think you might pick up one in the low seventies from what I have heard about other high end car sales

[BERNEV]

Unfortunately, a lot is said about the i8 by people who have never experienced it. I too was sceptical about a car with a 1.5 litre turbo engine until I drove one. Within a mile I had been converted and I am not an eco-warrior by any stretch. But I do like cars that push the boundaries or that are unusual. In 1997, I bought my first NSX (I still have one) and all I heard from people at the time was "Why buy that; why not a 911?". Actually i had a 911 at the time (admittedly a 3.2 Carrera not a 993) and the NSX was light years ahead in all aspects of the driving experience AND it was relatively cheap to run as a daily driver. Now, you won't hear much said against the original NSX with people hailing it for the masterpiece that it is.

I feel exactly the same way about the i8 - I still get the "Why did you do that?" but, like the NSX, it was a game changer and was just not understood by those that look for certain things in a junior supercar (badge/posing potential down the pub/golf course/ultimate performance that will never be used). And I can guarantee that the i8 will be similarly revered in twenty years' time. But not now. It will continue to depreciate like a man falling off a cliff. Buyers haven't got used to the idea of smaller power plants and they are intrinsically conservative and risk averse when comes to decisions costing them money. So they don't sell well. But that makes them incredibly good value secondhand. My car was a year old and 1300 miles. it cost half the list price. Like my NSX, I never intend to sell it so depreciation isn't a problem. But I accept that it would be if you only wanted the car for a year. The i8 also drives far far better than it has any right too and as an overall driving experience it transcends many cars. And I've driven a lot. It also turns heads as much as my NSX does because they are rare and unique. Frankly nobody could give a flying fig about a Conti GT, Vantage or 911 nowadays - they are everywhere and far too obviously ostentatious. And you need to replace them every year to stay on top. i can guarantee (again) that my i8 will always turn heads!

[Numpty with honours]

BERNEV said:

Unfortunately, a lot is said about the i8 by people who have never experienced it. I too was sceptical about a car with a 1.5 litre turbo engine until I drove one. Within a mile I had been converted and I am not an eco-warrior by any stretch. But I do like cars that push the boundaries or that are unusual. In 1997, I bought my first NSX (I still have one) and all I heard from people at the time was "Why buy that; why not a 911?". Actually i had a 911 at the time (admittedly a 3.2 Carrera not a 993) and the NSX was light years ahead in all aspects of the driving experience AND it was relatively cheap to run as a daily driver. Now, you won't hear much said against the original NSX with people hailing it for the masterpiece that it is.

I feel exactly the same way about the i8 - I still get the "Why did you do that?" but, like the NSX, it was a game changer and was just not understood by those that look for certain things in a junior supercar (badge/posing potential down the pub/golf course/ultimate performance that will never be used). And I can guarantee that the i8 will be similarly revered in twenty years' time. But not now. It will continue to depreciate like a man falling off a cliff. Buyers haven't got used to the idea of smaller power plants and they are intrinsically conservative and risk averse when comes to decisions costing them money. So they don't sell well. But that makes them incredibly good value secondhand. My car was a year old and 1300 miles. it cost half the list price. Like my NSX, I never intend to sell it so depreciation isn't a problem. But I accept that it would be if you only wanted the car for a year. The i8 also drives far far better than it has any right too and as an overall driving experience it transcends many cars. And I've driven a lot. It also turns heads as much as my NSX does because they are rare and unique. Frankly nobody could give a flying fig about a Conti GT, Vantage or 911 nowadays - they are everywhere and far too obviously ostentatious. And you need to replace them every year to stay on top. i can guarantee (again) that my i8 will always turn heads!

I concur with everything, I too have had the first generation NSX (in fact I had three over a 12 year period and did well over 100,000 miles in them collectively ) and own a current NSX and still have an i8 and have done nearly 60,000 miles in the i8 and have done 9,000 miles in the new NSX so I can for those reasons speak with some authority on the costs and tribulations of ownership

The NSX is car because of badge snobbery has not sold as it should, Honda have clearly invested enormous sums in the development of the car and have sold just over 200 in Europe in three years . Therefore those who can look deeper into evaluating a car will see that there is a bargain to be had. I had two issues with the first generation NSX – the power steering module on the NSX-T went wrong and on the second NSX I had a circlip break yup in the gearbox causing some problems which was dealt with under warranty

Many miss the point the i8 is all about efficiency it is not necessarily in the top league on 0-60 times and top speed. Aside from deprecation it has been a very modest car to run, very reliable and if god forbid the engine blew its repair as it is based on the Mini engine will not be stratospheric. I think its side view must make it one of the nicest looking cars but disappointing from the back as it lacks gravitas and is muddled with too many colours. My only fault with the i8 was a petrol flap that refused to open ( unless thumped carefully a few times in very quick succession ( I could have gone into the boot and fiddled around with a lever) – I do enjoy driving it

[ravon]

I've enjoyed the fuel flap issue too ! Same solution as well.

[swisstoni]

It’s funny that this NSX is going through the same trajectory as the original.
Honda brand STILL not uber-desirable.
Front looks like a (insert some ordinary Honda).
High price.
Low sales.

I imagine there might be a revival some time after they stop making them too, just like the original.

[LayZ]

swisstoni said:

It’s funny that this NSX is going through the same trajectory as the original.
Honda brand STILL not uber-desirable.
Front looks like a (insert some ordinary Honda).
High price.
Low sales.

I imagine there might be a revival some time after they stop making them too, just like the original.

Possibly, but I can see the complexity of them being off-putting for long term enthusiast owners. One UK dealer to support them now, what's that going to be when they are 10-15 years old, and there's only a handful in Europe?

Thanks again to poster above for i8 vs NSX comparison.