Coronavirus = empty roads

Coronavirus = empty roads

Author
Discussion

Alextodrive

252 posts

39 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Zoobeef said:
The fact is, funny old thing it isnt a full lock down. It's exactly what I've said it would be. Close all the none essential shops and stop you seeing friends.

What's been announced today wont change my routine at all, I'm still coming to work and popping to shops when I need. And I'll be in the garage tinkering with the race cars.

Yet still some that cant understand what's being told to them and trying to dictate to others the wrong information.
Strange. I must have missed the bit in our conversation where you said they should close all non essential shops and stop people seeing friends. Maybe you said it earlier elsewhere, pre-your reply to me.

Seemed like it was me who was making the point that usually it's no big deal going for a blast in a car, or doing track days. But that right now it is. That if you can live without something for the time being, it is the responsible and moral thing to do.

And then you implied I was being self-righteous, I was being riskier by cooking at home and I should isolate myself and let other people mind their own business.

Funny really now we are where we are. laugh

Enjoy the tinkering! I'm sure there will be a few cars that get some much deserved TLC up and down the country these next 3 weeks.

Here's my original post again for you:

Alextodrive said:
This isnt directed at you, or anyone in particular. Just my thoughts in response to the fair point you've made on proportionality.

We can't all go around in bubble wrap, taking no risks. Absolutely. Life to some extent, has to go on.

However the NHS already struggles at the best of times. If you know any nurses or doctors, pick their brains and ask them what it's normally like. I dated an intensive care nurse for 6 years, it's not a pretty picture how bad its been this past decade through austerity without this virus to deal with.

Then if you consider we have one of the lowest number of intensive care beds per 100k people in Europe, you can begin to understand why, even a relatively minor virus like this, is threatening to cripple our health system; which has a minimal capacity in intensive care as it is.

So we are being asked, or rather urged, to be cautious, to be responsible, to socially distance ourselves for the time being.

Yeah, going to the park with a few friends, isnt a big deal. Doing a track day, isnt a big deal. Going for a blast on your bike or in your car at the weekend, isnt a big deal. Usually.

But right now it is. If we all carry on as we are, the people who know better than we do, the people with the data and the science at hand are warning us we will spread the virus at an unmanageable rate. And we will have crashes and accidents that take up hospital time and possibly space, we needn't otherwise. If you can live without something for the time being, it is the responsible and moral thing to do.

And if people dont care, that says an awful lot about them, their intellect and their moral compass.

I dont doubt we'll see even more draconian measures taken soon by the government to try and protect the very people, who in large parts are too stupid to protect themselves and others.

Zoobeef

5,922 posts

122 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Alextodrive said:
Zoobeef said:
The fact is, funny old thing it isnt a full lock down. It's exactly what I've said it would be. Close all the none essential shops and stop you seeing friends.

What's been announced today wont change my routine at all, I'm still coming to work and popping to shops when I need. And I'll be in the garage tinkering with the race cars.

Yet still some that cant understand what's being told to them and trying to dictate to others the wrong information.
Strange. I must have missed the bit in our conversation where you said they should close all non essential shops and stop people seeing friends. Maybe you said it earlier elsewhere, pre-your reply to me.

Seemed like it was me who was making the point that usually it's no big deal going for a blast in a car, or doing track days. But that right now it is. That if you can live without something for the time being, it is the responsible and moral thing to do.

And then you implied I was being self-righteous, I was being riskier by cooking at home and I should isolate myself and let other people mind their own business.

Funny really now we are where we are. laugh

Enjoy the tinkering! I'm sure there will be a few cars that get some much deserved TLC up and down the country these next 3 weeks.

Alextodrive said:
This isnt directed at you, or anyone in particular. Just my thoughts in response to the fair point you've made on proportionality.

We can't all go around in bubble wrap, taking no risks. Absolutely. Life to some extent, has to go on.

However the NHS already struggles at the best of times. If you know any nurses or doctors, pick their brains and ask them what it's normally like. I dated an intensive care nurse for 6 years, it's not a pretty picture how bad its been this past decade through austerity without this virus to deal with.

Then if you consider we have one of the lowest number of intensive care beds per 100k people in Europe, you can begin to understand why, even a relatively minor virus like this, is threatening to cripple our health system; which has a minimal capacity in intensive care as it is.

So we are being asked, or rather urged, to be cautious, to be responsible, to socially distance ourselves for the time being.

Yeah, going to the park with a few friends, isnt a big deal. Doing a track day, isnt a big deal. Going for a blast on your bike or in your car at the weekend, isnt a big deal. Usually.

But right now it is. If we all carry on as we are, the people who know better than we do, the people with the data and the science at hand are warning us we will spread the virus at an unmanageable rate. And we will have crashes and accidents that take up hospital time and possibly space, we needn't otherwise. If you can live without something for the time being, it is the responsible and moral thing to do.

And if people dont care, that says an awful lot about them, their intellect and their moral compass.

I dont doubt we'll see even more draconian measures taken soon by the government to try and protect the very people, who in large parts are too stupid to protect themselves and others.
There are still people being self righteous, in the other thread (one of many) berating people for going to work even though nowhere in the PM statement did it say you shouldn't. Just because THEY dont want to do it, doesnt mean they should berate anyone that does and make out that they are the better person for not doing it.
Its self-righteous, not needed and not helpful in the slightest.

Alextodrive

252 posts

39 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Zoobeef said:
There are still people being self righteous, in the other thread (one of many) berating people for going to work even though nowhere in the PM statement did it say you shouldn't. Just because THEY dont want to do it, doesnt mean they should berate anyone that does and make out that they are the better person for not doing it.
Its self-righteous, not needed and not helpful in the slightest.
Strange that you decided to reply and quote me, when I did nothing of the sort. Dont you think?

Zoobeef

5,922 posts

122 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Yeah, we were just talking about it

Edited by Zoobeef on Tuesday 24th March 02:25


No idea what's up with PH, wont let me post more than a few words.

Edited by Zoobeef on Tuesday 24th March 02:25

unsprung

5,134 posts

88 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all


Numbers anyone? Some interesting findings that you might appreciate (even if you're not often in these cities).

. . . "average speeds in Los Angeles are 48 percent higher because there's so much less traffic on the roads."

. . . "speeds on the highways surrounding New York City were more than 50 percent higher during the morning commute"

. . . "traffic [in Seattle] was moving at speeds 100 percent faster"

. . . ""There's an acknowledgement in the data that commute patterns and people driving are a really responsive ecosystem, and you can manage it in different ways for different outcomes."

article
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31899842/traffi...



sisu

850 posts

137 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
There are some fundamental changes going on. This social experiment is really changing things and how we adapt. Instead of being able to talk to everyone in an open plan office I have been meeting my team by driving to their village and then going for a walk with some space.
The roads being clear of traffic, an Italian tune up, windows open is just what the doctor ordered. I dont have the radio on as they just talk about covid so a real opportunity to collect my thoughts about specific tasks and meet up again rather than sifting and bumping into them at the coffee machine.
I dont see us going back to 100% how they were

Zoobeef

5,922 posts

122 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
sisu said:
There are some fundamental changes going on. This social experiment is really changing things and how we adapt. Instead of being able to talk to everyone in an open plan office I have been meeting my team by driving to their village and then going for a walk with some space.
The roads being clear of traffic, an Italian tune up, windows open is just what the doctor ordered. I dont have the radio on as they just talk about covid so a real opportunity to collect my thoughts about specific tasks and meet up again rather than sifting and bumping into them at the coffee machine.
I dont see us going back to 100% how they were
You wonder how many job losses are going to come from this when they realise alot can be done from home.
Sell the offices, lay off the cleaners and maintenance staff etc.

Dog Star

12,332 posts

132 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Reciprocating mass said:
That’s why the armed forces have been put on standby
To deal with the inevitable idiots and help out the police
Not a chance - what do you think they'd be doing? They'll be helping with logistics and so on, not dealing with the public, whatever they are doing.


sisu said:
There are some fundamental changes going on. This social experiment is really changing things and how we adapt. Instead of being able to talk to everyone in an open plan office I have been meeting my team by driving to their village and then going for a walk with some space.
The roads being clear of traffic, an Italian tune up, windows open is just what the doctor ordered. I dont have the radio on as they just talk about covid so a real opportunity to collect my thoughts about specific tasks and meet up again rather than sifting and bumping into them at the coffee machine.
I dont see us going back to 100% how they were
Largely I think we will be going back - there are certain types of company and certain types of manager and these will want the bums back on the seats as soon as possible. Sadly these places are all too prevalent.

swampy442

1,070 posts

175 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
sisu said:
There are some fundamental changes going on. This social experiment is really changing things and how we adapt.


I dont see us going back to 100% how they were
The only thing I hope comes out of all this, the ONLY thing, is self isolation. Too many people bring their viruses etc to work when they could quite happily stay at home.

SpudLink

3,451 posts

156 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Dog Star said:
Largely I think we will be going back - there are certain types of company and certain types of manager and these will want the bums back on the seats as soon as possible. Sadly these places are all too prevalent.
That’s exactly what will happen at our place. I am finding it easier to concentrate on the job working from home, without the distractions of inane conversations in the office. (I’m even spending less time on PH because I’m focused on my work.). But the boss wants to see people in the office, regardless of whether that’s the most productive place for us software developers.

sharepointalex

120 posts

71 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Been watching this topic to get people's opinions on getting out for a drive amid this chaos. Kind of wish I hadn't just bought a new M340i given I won't have much time to drive it now!

I pondered this last night and have deduced that my driving will be limited to - driving to the supermarket (possibly taking the long way round to make it more fun) and doctors to pick up medicine and that's probably it.

I run every other day and will still do that as part of my '1 a day' and it has to be in the evening as we have a 4 year old a toddler in the house, that plus working and home schooling means a daytime run is out of the question. Was thinking I could drive somewhere remote and then do my run, probably less risky than running around the local neighbourhood as I wouldn't see any one....

Interestingly I did a walk with my 4 year old this morning to get her out, only a few people about and we kept away from each other, surprisingly more traffic on the roads than I expected...

swisstoni

10,590 posts

243 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
I did a pilot scheme of working from home about 20 years ago.
I found I started pretty much as soon as I got up and worked on past usual end time. I didn’t miss the rat race one little bit.

Why this hasn’t become the virtual norm in the intervening decades, with the vast improvements in comms since, is baffling.

If we wanted to cut down on emissions, congestion, nightmare commutes, an overcrowded South East and all that, this stuff this has to be made more attractive. Perhaps through carrot rather than stick as is currently the case.

Kev_Mk3

2,015 posts

59 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Still busy here on the Wirral / Cheshire

hungry_hog

1,310 posts

152 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
swisstoni said:
I did a pilot scheme of working from home about 20 years ago.
I found I started pretty much as soon as I got up and worked on past usual end time. I didn’t miss the rat race one little bit.

Why this hasn’t become the virtual norm in the intervening decades, with the vast improvements in comms since, is baffling.

If we wanted to cut down on emissions, congestion, nightmare commutes, an overcrowded South East and all that, this stuff this has to be made more attractive. Perhaps through carrot rather than stick as is currently the case.
Agreed

There is a perception in some organisations that WFH is "skiving". Place where I worked a few years back, my boss had a serious accident and wasn't able to walk. For him to get approve to WFH took 3 months!

The 3 months prior he sat at home not working, all the time on full salary.

Limpet

4,457 posts

125 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
SpudLink said:
Dog Star said:
Largely I think we will be going back - there are certain types of company and certain types of manager and these will want the bums back on the seats as soon as possible. Sadly these places are all too prevalent.
That’s exactly what will happen at our place. I am finding it easier to concentrate on the job working from home, without the distractions of inane conversations in the office. (I’m even spending less time on PH because I’m focused on my work.). But the boss wants to see people in the office, regardless of whether that’s the most productive place for us software developers.
I've worked for a few of those, but the last one was by far the worst. An FG500 'household name', and working from home was seen as skiving, and not permitted. You were measured as much on the hours your backside was at your desk, as you were on anything you ever delivered. Employers like that are why the Tubes were still packed as recently as yesterday. Everyone blaming the individuals for being "selfish" has clearly never worked for a company that effectively bullies people into being present.

Thankfully, my current employer couldn't be more different. They took the decision to close all the offices last Tuesday, and instruct everyone to work from home until further notice. Only warehouse, and a handful of critical support staff are in, and then under very strict social distancing rules. We work flexibly anyway (haven't had my own desk for 4 years), so it wasn't a big cultural change. Instead of doing some of my job via e-mail, phone and Teams, I'm doing all of it, or as much of it as I can.

If anything good comes out of this, it will be a review of the way we operate day to day, and a wider understanding among management that people can still be productive, contactable and accountable without being physically present in an office. So much of the 'rush hour' crowding on our roads and public transport is not operationally necessary.

Shnozz

22,889 posts

235 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
hungry_hog said:
swisstoni said:
I did a pilot scheme of working from home about 20 years ago.
I found I started pretty much as soon as I got up and worked on past usual end time. I didn’t miss the rat race one little bit.

Why this hasn’t become the virtual norm in the intervening decades, with the vast improvements in comms since, is baffling.

If we wanted to cut down on emissions, congestion, nightmare commutes, an overcrowded South East and all that, this stuff this has to be made more attractive. Perhaps through carrot rather than stick as is currently the case.
Agreed

There is a perception in some organisations that WFH is "skiving". Place where I worked a few years back, my boss had a serious accident and wasn't able to walk. For him to get approve to WFH took 3 months!

The 3 months prior he sat at home not working, all the time on full salary.
It still seems madness to my mind that in the modern day, with tech where it is, that droves of people sit in congestion to sit in an office often with the same capabilities as a desk at their home. And in a world of globality where business crosses time zones, even the fact that the business hours are set so that everyone pours on the roads at the same time in the morning and evening seems madness.

Expensive city offices, expensive parking (which is under pressure all the time), pollution etc etc all weigh against it, yet businesses still don't seem to want to make any fast changes. Even in terms of employing the "best" people, imagine if a business wasn't limited to potential employees that were within a commutable radius of their premises.

Good management and adherence to realistic targets is surely something that can be overseen and if someone decides to spend a day on pornhub instead of working, surely the absence of adherence to those targets is measurable whether stood over someone's desk or reviewing the end of day results remotely?



Crudeoink

59 posts

23 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
I do hope that one positive we get from this whole situation is that employers realise working from home isn't so bad after all. Instead of chasing the last 2-3% in car emissions, if government allow tax relief for all office based work that allowed 1 day a week working from home we could reduce road deaths, congestions and pollution from millions of journeys not taken. I've been lucky enough to have an employer allow me to work from home 2 days a week, thus saving me 180 miles of travel a week. I've actually had time to go and exercise in the evenings and been able to catch up on sleep on these days too.

Dog Star

12,332 posts

132 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Shnozz said:
It still seems madness to my mind that in the modern day, with tech where it is, that droves of people sit in congestion to sit in an office often with the same capabilities as a desk at their home. And in a world of globality where business crosses time zones, even the fact that the business hours are set so that everyone pours on the roads at the same time in the morning and evening seems madness.
It gets worse in my case.

In the UK in my team - there is me and one other guy, and the rest of the team are all in Gibraltar.
The other guy in the UK lives ten minutes from the office, yet he is allowed to work from home every day, all year.

We do the same job. I have an hour and a half drive each way. I have to be in the office. I really don't have anything to do whatsoever with the office in the UK aside from exchanging pleasantries with them, I don't work with them.

All my interactions with the rest of the team - and the other guy sat at home a few miles away - is done by Bluejeans and Slack. This works fine. When I am WFH I communicate with the team by Bluejeans and Slack. There is NO DIFFERENCE (although at home my cat sits next to me on his own office chair).

I have taken to simply not going into the office and not mentioning it - nobody cares or has noticed. If I'm having a call with any management outside my immediate small team I leave the camera off.

I know that the manager a couple of levels up isn't too chuffed about my oppo doing WFH all the time, but he can't really rescind it. He's gone so far as to call me and ask if it causes a problem for me. Why he doesn't like it is a mystery to me - he's 1500 miles away and doesn't know where we are. It's presenteeism, pure and simple.

It's a farcical situation - I'm meant to spend 3 hours a day driving, spend a fortune on fuel and parking, get up at 5.45 in the morning etc all so I can go and sit on my own in a big open plan office listening to music with my headphones on instead of sitting at home (in a proper office, I might add) with the exact same setup (same 3 monitors, same keyboard, mouse and dock, same camera etc) listening to music with my headphones. What an absolute joke.

I'll keep on doing this until someone actually notices - they'll either do nothing or make me do the 3 hours commuting, in which case I'm off. Life's too short for this kind of tosh.

The government really needs to incentivise WFH; why spend billions on green eco policies, upgrading roads and so on, when you can probably reduce peak road use by about 15% or so by getting people off the roads who don't need to be there. That way the "bums on seats" bellend companies can actually pay for their practices.

(on this same topic - my car is on 15000 miles a year which I'd normally use up. My year runs to 8th December - so I'm 4 months past that and just hit 14000. It won't be much more by autumn with this virus business).

thedugmaster

1,557 posts

123 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Dog Star said:
It gets worse in my case.

In the UK in my team - there is me and one other guy, and the rest of the team are all in Gibraltar.
The other guy in the UK lives ten minutes from the office, yet he is allowed to work from home every day, all year.

We do the same job. I have an hour and a half drive each way. I have to be in the office. I really don't have anything to do whatsoever with the office in the UK aside from exchanging pleasantries with them, I don't work with them.

All my interactions with the rest of the team - and the other guy sat at home a few miles away - is done by Bluejeans and Slack. This works fine. When I am WFH I communicate with the team by Bluejeans and Slack. There is NO DIFFERENCE (although at home my cat sits next to me on his own office chair).

I have taken to simply not going into the office and not mentioning it - nobody cares or has noticed. If I'm having a call with any management outside my immediate small team I leave the camera off.

I know that the manager a couple of levels up isn't too chuffed about my oppo doing WFH all the time, but he can't really rescind it. He's gone so far as to call me and ask if it causes a problem for me. Why he doesn't like it is a mystery to me - he's 1500 miles away and doesn't know where we are. It's presenteeism, pure and simple.

It's a farcical situation - I'm meant to spend 3 hours a day driving, spend a fortune on fuel and parking, get up at 5.45 in the morning etc all so I can go and sit on my own in a big open plan office listening to music with my headphones on instead of sitting at home (in a proper office, I might add) with the exact same setup (same 3 monitors, same keyboard, mouse and dock, same camera etc) listening to music with my headphones. What an absolute joke.

I'll keep on doing this until someone actually notices - they'll either do nothing or make me do the 3 hours commuting, in which case I'm off. Life's too short for this kind of tosh.

The government really needs to incentivise WFH; why spend billions on green eco policies, upgrading roads and so on, when you can probably reduce peak road use by about 15% or so by getting people off the roads who don't need to be there. That way the "bums on seats" bellend companies can actually pay for their practices.

(on this same topic - my car is on 15000 miles a year which I'd normally use up. My year runs to 8th December - so I'm 4 months past that and just hit 14000. It won't be much more by autumn with this virus business).
I see this all the time as a business consultant. Many clients struggle to identify with the benefits of improving people's work/life balance even though, as we all know, the tech now permits exactly the same experience for people working remotely as it does those in an office, physical contact notwithstanding.

Personally, when the dust settles on Covid-19 I think it's inevitable that things will change and far fewer people are going to have to spend their working lives in an office when current events have proved that they just don't need to. The precedent is being set, and that's going to be a very difficult thing for pro-commute luddite middle managers to argue against once HR realises that things like sick leave, stress and RSIs are falling.

LeoSayer

6,284 posts

208 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
quotequote all
Is anyone intending to SORN their cars before the end of the month?