RE: BMW M235i Gran Coupe vs. Hyundai i30 Fastback N
Discussion
A twin test with a BMW and a Hyundai and I prefer the Hyundai.
That's a first. Asked me 20 years ago I would have thought you were crazy to even suggest that was possible.
And rather than how well Hyundai have come along, it's rather how much BMW have slipped down. I dont know how that design got signed-off by the management, I really dont.
That's a first. Asked me 20 years ago I would have thought you were crazy to even suggest that was possible.
And rather than how well Hyundai have come along, it's rather how much BMW have slipped down. I dont know how that design got signed-off by the management, I really dont.
The problem with the FWD platform cars is they look interchangeable with anything else in the segment. For example in that flat blue, the 1er looks more like a Volvo V40 than anything else. If you stripped the enormous kidneys it'd be any other anonymous C-segment hatchback.
I think the challenge is the same one Jaguar faced way back in the early 2000s with the X-Type: what people think of as "a BMW" is inherently tied to the hardpoints of a longitudinal RWD platform. The long bonnet, short front overhang and low, cab-backward stance either can't be done or don't make sense when you have a transverse engine and front transaxle. The front wheels are placed further back with a bigger overhang, which means you need upright front seats and a deep dashboard to mitigate the greater cabin intrusion, which then leads to a taller, more cab-forward shape. In smaller cars manufacturers tend to hide the front overhang with a heavily rounded front end, which further moves away from the bluff front which is a BMW hallmark.
While it's no work of art I reckon the 2er GC is a much better stab at translating the BMW look to a transverse platform; most of the awkwardness comes from trying to integrate styling themes that are designed for lower, wider cars further up the range. That rear light treatment looks great on a G20 3-series; here it only serves to highlight how tall and narrow the car is, no matter how much they try to tone it down with a mock diffuser and lots of horizontal dividing elements. It's a problem a lot of manufacturers struggle with (the Hyundai is a podgy, amorphous mass from the rear) - one of the few relatively elegant solutions was Peter Horbury's boat tail/shoulders approach on 2000s Volvos. But then 15-20 years ago he wasn't having to contend with modern regulations on roll over safety and pedestrian protection driving bonnet and shoulder lines ever higher.
(Incidentally, having mentioned the X-Type I think that's one of the more successful attempts at moving a house style over to a completely different platform, although I've no idea how much was less stringent safety regulation or allowing more compromises to interior space, and how much was simply the designers doing a better job of it.)
I think the challenge is the same one Jaguar faced way back in the early 2000s with the X-Type: what people think of as "a BMW" is inherently tied to the hardpoints of a longitudinal RWD platform. The long bonnet, short front overhang and low, cab-backward stance either can't be done or don't make sense when you have a transverse engine and front transaxle. The front wheels are placed further back with a bigger overhang, which means you need upright front seats and a deep dashboard to mitigate the greater cabin intrusion, which then leads to a taller, more cab-forward shape. In smaller cars manufacturers tend to hide the front overhang with a heavily rounded front end, which further moves away from the bluff front which is a BMW hallmark.
While it's no work of art I reckon the 2er GC is a much better stab at translating the BMW look to a transverse platform; most of the awkwardness comes from trying to integrate styling themes that are designed for lower, wider cars further up the range. That rear light treatment looks great on a G20 3-series; here it only serves to highlight how tall and narrow the car is, no matter how much they try to tone it down with a mock diffuser and lots of horizontal dividing elements. It's a problem a lot of manufacturers struggle with (the Hyundai is a podgy, amorphous mass from the rear) - one of the few relatively elegant solutions was Peter Horbury's boat tail/shoulders approach on 2000s Volvos. But then 15-20 years ago he wasn't having to contend with modern regulations on roll over safety and pedestrian protection driving bonnet and shoulder lines ever higher.
(Incidentally, having mentioned the X-Type I think that's one of the more successful attempts at moving a house style over to a completely different platform, although I've no idea how much was less stringent safety regulation or allowing more compromises to interior space, and how much was simply the designers doing a better job of it.)
Timberwolf said:
... in that flat blue, the 1er looks more like a Volvo V40 than anything else. If you stripped the enormous kidneys it'd be any other anonymous C-segment hatchback...
Yup, I'd agree with that. Not identical, but not different enough (grille aside). Not many people liked the last 1 series (F20) but enough people bought them to deem it a success - and now they barely warrant a second look. This new one, and the 2GC, will be the same. 
nickfrog said:
big_rob_sydney said:
I've been wondering what to replace my car with, and it has me thinking that even brand new ICE's just aren't doing it today, so how will they be in a year or two from now? I suspect these type of cars will just make me hang on to my current car
A BMW dealer will happily sell you a M2, new or used. I just got one and it's brilliant. 
big_rob_sydney said:
nickfrog said:
big_rob_sydney said:
I've been wondering what to replace my car with, and it has me thinking that even brand new ICE's just aren't doing it today, so how will they be in a year or two from now? I suspect these type of cars will just make me hang on to my current car
A BMW dealer will happily sell you a M2, new or used. I just got one and it's brilliant. Living in California, I have yet to see a car enthusiast purchase and keep a Tesla for more than a few months (granted, small sample size). I recommend them to everyone who wants a pleasant, fast, efficient car, but as ever, it depends what you're looking for. Most owners I know are very happy with them. The merits are not lost on me, it's just not what I and some others are looking for.
big_rob_sydney said:
nickfrog said:
big_rob_sydney said:
I've been wondering what to replace my car with, and it has me thinking that even brand new ICE's just aren't doing it today, so how will they be in a year or two from now? I suspect these type of cars will just make me hang on to my current car
A BMW dealer will happily sell you a M2, new or used. I just got one and it's brilliant. It's not a bizarre new niche at all, is it? It's simply the return of the small saloon/sedan, with these specific models being the fast versions.
Back in the day every hatchback had a saloon/sedan equivalent - Golf/Vento/Bora, Escort/Orion, Astra/Belmont. They died out for whatever reason but now they're back for whatever reason.
Back in the day every hatchback had a saloon/sedan equivalent - Golf/Vento/Bora, Escort/Orion, Astra/Belmont. They died out for whatever reason but now they're back for whatever reason.
jimbim said:
Correct. This is fantastic, as are it's successors each with their merits and detractors. Shame there's no way to do carbon capture on a small scale. Would alleviate this race to kill ICE cars. Hey ho. One thing's for sure, neither this BMW, nor Hyundai solve any problem any enthusiast is asking. OK Maybe the Hyundai does; an odd statement to make in the company of a BMW until recently.
big_rob_sydney said:
Are you serious? The Tesla model 3 performance is a better car in almost every metric. Why would I buy yesterdays car?
Are you serious as well? The Tesla model 3 is a badly engineered, badly manufactured pile of crap assembled in a tent in the desert by people terrified of the CEO. Plus the paint is the thickness of a red blood cell.Stop fanboying and realise when the Germans bring their EV's mainstream, Tesla is dead. And no, they really aren't outselling BMW, Merc and Audi, especially now the EV subsidy has been removed in a lot of markets.
blademansw said:
big_rob_sydney said:
Are you serious? The Tesla model 3 performance is a better car in almost every metric. Why would I buy yesterdays car?
Are you serious as well? The Tesla model 3 is a badly engineered, badly manufactured pile of crap assembled in a tent in the desert by people terrified of the CEO. Plus the paint is the thickness of a red blood cell.Stop fanboying and realise when the Germans bring their EV's mainstream, Tesla is dead. And no, they really aren't outselling BMW, Merc and Audi, especially now the EV subsidy has been removed in a lot of markets.
I don't own a Tesla, but that doesnt stop me from appreciating what a shift in the car market they have wrought.
Again, your assertion regarding German EV's may be a little premature. Tesla are a battery company (among other things), and have a significant head start on all other companies. They may not be outselling the other Germans in TOTAL sales (Tesla only have 4 models right now), but in the niche's where they DO operate, I'm afraid the Germans are dead and buried. Besides that, they also provide over-the-air updates that improve performance. This is something the ICE cars simply can't do.
In any case, if you don't like it, don't buy it. No one has put a gun to your head.
big_rob_sydney said:
Again, your assertion regarding German EV's may be a little premature. Tesla are a battery company (among other things), and have a significant head start on all other companies. They may not be outselling the other Germans in TOTAL sales (Tesla only have 4 models right now), but in the niche's where they DO operate, I'm afraid the Germans are dead and buried. Besides that, they also provide over-the-air updates that improve performance. This is something the ICE cars simply can't do.
Agreed; the significance of this cannot be overstated. The fact that Porsche built the Taycan, an undoubtedly thorough and well engineered, handsome EV, but were not able to get close to Tesla in terms of outright range, speaks volumes.Think what you will of Elon (I don't have much respect for the man) but what his engineers have achieved, with limited budget and resources, is truly impressive (beneath the crappy bodywork at least). IMHO where they really fall short is fit and finish. A well documented shortcoming which I won't belabour here.
911Kiwi said:
Is it just me but can someone please explain which of the two amorphous grey blobs is the BMW and which is the Hyundai.......???
Remove the badging and the front grille and you really would be hard pressed to know which was which. Ask any non car person and they'd really struggle. BMW styling is just so, so bland right now.blademansw said:
Stop fanboying and realise when the Germans bring their EV's mainstream, Tesla is dead. And no, they really aren't outselling BMW, Merc and Audi, especially now the EV subsidy has been removed in a lot of markets.
Give it a break ffs, a lot of us think kraut cars look s
te.big_rob_sydney said:
I'm not so sure about your various assertions. I'd point out that there are far fewer moving parts in the Tesla "engine", therefore by design, much less to potentially go wrong with them. Total cost of ownership is much cheaper, due to the much reduced cost of maintenance, and fuel savings.
It has a battery which doesn't last that long. So there is that major weak point.Anyway, there is so many things wrong in this bmw. It's ugly, its not RWD, not exciting to drive, not fun and as a long road trip car 300-series is much better.
On the other hand, Hyundai i30N seems to be a high point of modern automobile. It collects all the good things from new cars, leaves most of the bad things out and creates an old school driver focused package. Interesting car and i need to test drive it. For me, Fastback is more interesting than hatchback. It doesn't have nice proportions, but still looks good (mostly). It does have huge boot and little bit of coupe-looks which i like.
Well done Hyundai.
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