RE: McLaren seeks extra funding to mitigate losses
Discussion
Kilarnies point about having an engineer in charge making all the difference. Look what happened when Jobs was ousted from Apple by the Ex Sugary Water exec. It took Jobs coming back to make it the company it is now. Vision. And having an engineering bent. Basically not a sallow bean counter.
my father was interested in a mclaren from an approved dealer, but got put off when he typed it into youtube!
it's so disappointing but i think they tried to achieve too much too quickly with too many different models
aston martin - bigger brand but with fewer models... now that's how to do it
it's so disappointing but i think they tried to achieve too much too quickly with too many different models
aston martin - bigger brand but with fewer models... now that's how to do it
ate one too said:
No pretence here ...
I had my name down on a 570 GT before it became available and after having an extensive test drive in both a 570 Spider and a 720 S I was mightily disappointed in both cars for several reasons already posted here.
It is possible to dislike certain things without wishing ill on the manufacturer / supplier / etc.
For example ...
I don't like what has happened to football in the UK in the past 20 years but I wouldn't wish the Premier League et al to go out of business.
I also don't like Dyson vacuum cleaners having owned one a few years ago ... poorly designed and cheaply made from sub-standard plastics but I'm pleased to see James Dyson and his company is a success.
I understand your point and agree with you regarding some of McLaren's failings, but the fact is you appear on every single McLaren thread - without fail - to put the boot in.I had my name down on a 570 GT before it became available and after having an extensive test drive in both a 570 Spider and a 720 S I was mightily disappointed in both cars for several reasons already posted here.
It is possible to dislike certain things without wishing ill on the manufacturer / supplier / etc.
For example ...
I don't like what has happened to football in the UK in the past 20 years but I wouldn't wish the Premier League et al to go out of business.
I also don't like Dyson vacuum cleaners having owned one a few years ago ... poorly designed and cheaply made from sub-standard plastics but I'm pleased to see James Dyson and his company is a success.
Edited by ate one too on Sunday 17th May 10:30
You may well be a frustrated supporter of the brand in your head, but all we can see on these forums is somebody else on the McLaren bashing bandwagon, cracking the same ‘jokes’ over and over again.
We can only judge you by your actions.
Again, it’s no skin off my nose that you don’t like theirs cars. No law against that. But to be so vocal in criticising anything to do with McLaren and then claim you wish them no ill is more than a little naive.
What did you expect your posts to achieve?
It has hardly been constructive criticism.
Maldini35 said:
I understand your point and agree with you regarding some of McLaren's failings, but the fact is you appear on every single McLaren thread - without fail - to put the boot in.
You may well be a frustrated supporter of the brand in your head, but all we can see on these forums is somebody else on the McLaren bashing bandwagon, cracking the same ‘jokes’ over and over again.
We can only judge you by your actions.
Again, it’s no skin off my nose that you don’t like theirs cars. No law against that. But to be so vocal in criticising anything to do with McLaren and then claim you wish them no ill is more than a little naive.
What did you expect your posts to achieve?
It has hardly been constructive criticism.
Perhaps he hopes that things might change at the company allowing the products to finally make the most of the potential he feels the company has. You may well be a frustrated supporter of the brand in your head, but all we can see on these forums is somebody else on the McLaren bashing bandwagon, cracking the same ‘jokes’ over and over again.
We can only judge you by your actions.
Again, it’s no skin off my nose that you don’t like theirs cars. No law against that. But to be so vocal in criticising anything to do with McLaren and then claim you wish them no ill is more than a little naive.
What did you expect your posts to achieve?
It has hardly been constructive criticism.
I respect this a lot more than just sitting back and letting them get on with it. A good company welcomes criticism - an opportunity to really understand where you’re lacking and how to improve. Far more supportive than just yes-men and silence.
Maldini35 said:
ate one too said:
No pretence here ...
I had my name down on a 570 GT before it became available and after having an extensive test drive in both a 570 Spider and a 720 S I was mightily disappointed in both cars for several reasons already posted here.
It is possible to dislike certain things without wishing ill on the manufacturer / supplier / etc.
For example ...
I don't like what has happened to football in the UK in the past 20 years but I wouldn't wish the Premier League et al to go out of business.
I also don't like Dyson vacuum cleaners having owned one a few years ago ... poorly designed and cheaply made from sub-standard plastics but I'm pleased to see James Dyson and his company is a success.
I understand your point and agree with you regarding some of McLaren's failings, but the fact is you appear on every single McLaren thread - without fail - to put the boot in.I had my name down on a 570 GT before it became available and after having an extensive test drive in both a 570 Spider and a 720 S I was mightily disappointed in both cars for several reasons already posted here.
It is possible to dislike certain things without wishing ill on the manufacturer / supplier / etc.
For example ...
I don't like what has happened to football in the UK in the past 20 years but I wouldn't wish the Premier League et al to go out of business.
I also don't like Dyson vacuum cleaners having owned one a few years ago ... poorly designed and cheaply made from sub-standard plastics but I'm pleased to see James Dyson and his company is a success.
Edited by ate one too on Sunday 17th May 10:30
You may well be a frustrated supporter of the brand in your head, but all we can see on these forums is somebody else on the McLaren bashing bandwagon, cracking the same ‘jokes’ over and over again.
We can only judge you by your actions.
Again, it’s no skin off my nose that you don’t like theirs cars. No law against that. But to be so vocal in criticising anything to do with McLaren and then claim you wish them no ill is more than a little naive.
What did you expect your posts to achieve?
It has hardly been constructive criticism.
You obviously don't agree with my postings on McLaren or several other topics I've commented on - life's too short so why don't you just let it go eh ?
This isn't the first time you have behaved like this ....save yourself some breath and go enjoy the sunshine, sunshine.
Bloody shame there isn't a "filter" facility on PH forums....don't bother retaliating - I won't be reading this thread any longer
Isn’t part of McLaren's problem that they simply produce too many new models, most of which simply look like the last one. If I see one in the street, I always think they are easy to spot as a make, but I haven’t got a clue which model they are. They seem to got into a real rut with design, like other makes have in the last few years....Audi being a classic case.
Bobtherallyfan said:
Isn’t part of McLaren's problem that they simply produce too many new models, most of which simply look like the last one. If I see one in the street, I always think they are easy to spot as a make, but I haven’t got a clue which model they are. They seem to got into a real rut with design, like other makes have in the last few years....Audi being a classic case.
I think perhaps you just don't have the interest in them to tell the difference.They do have a strange design policy in that some are completely new cars and some are evolutions of previous models.
12C - 650S - 720S are clearly three very different looking cars.
570S - 600LT is trickier without seeing the exhausts as it looks like a 570S that a boy racer has taken to Halfords
It's just the number of different models that get me with McLaren. Furthermore, they all seem to have an engine that is derived from the Nissan 3.8 turbo lump. I'm more than likely wrong and I'm sure the engines are new engines, but my perception is what it is.
Reliability and the cost of repair affects demand and contributes to the big depreciation numbers. There's a narrative out there that suggests that it is not worth buying a Mclaren secondhand without a warranty. A warranty costs circa £4k which when added to the normal consumables, makes for an expensive ownership proposition.
I'm not sure whether they have opened up their IP to specialists. If not, having to service or repair the car exclusively at McLaren will put people off and affect demand. MP4-12C's can now be had for circa £65k. Wow, that is some car for the money, but most would be put off by their reliability and running costs.
If McLaren goes bust - so be it. It's their fault. The business model was flawed and the market will decide.
Reliability and the cost of repair affects demand and contributes to the big depreciation numbers. There's a narrative out there that suggests that it is not worth buying a Mclaren secondhand without a warranty. A warranty costs circa £4k which when added to the normal consumables, makes for an expensive ownership proposition.
I'm not sure whether they have opened up their IP to specialists. If not, having to service or repair the car exclusively at McLaren will put people off and affect demand. MP4-12C's can now be had for circa £65k. Wow, that is some car for the money, but most would be put off by their reliability and running costs.
If McLaren goes bust - so be it. It's their fault. The business model was flawed and the market will decide.
Lee Jones Jnr said:
Bobtherallyfan said:
Isn’t part of McLaren's problem that they simply produce too many new models, most of which simply look like the last one. If I see one in the street, I always think they are easy to spot as a make, but I haven’t got a clue which model they are. They seem to got into a real rut with design, like other makes have in the last few years....Audi being a classic case.
I think perhaps you just don't have the interest in them to tell the difference.They do have a strange design policy in that some are completely new cars and some are evolutions of previous models.
12C - 650S - 720S are clearly three very different looking cars.
570S - 600LT is trickier without seeing the exhausts as it looks like a 570S that a boy racer has taken to Halfords
540 & 570 around 600 ish in all guises on UK roads and very easy to distinguish with the rear.
720s also around 600ish, and totally different looking from anything.
So less than 2000 McLarens on the UK roads inc 600 & 675Lts etc... not as many cars as everyone may think going by 'a new model launched every week' forum speak, and if you are interested in them, they are very easy to tell apart.
To me, it is similar with Porsche...i feel the 911, boxster and cayman all look similar, but never feel the need to make a noise about it...i feel it is the Porsche identity.
As much as others feel they should all be dramatically different, the company is in its infancy so sharing tubs and engines makes economic sense, which restricts is design i guess...for me i really like how they look, although still not fully sold on the 720 'eye sockets'. .
Lee Jones Jnr said:
I think perhaps you just don't have the interest in them to tell the difference.
They do have a strange design policy in that some are completely new cars and some are evolutions of previous models.
12C - 650S - 720S are clearly three very different looking cars.
570S - 600LT is trickier without seeing the exhausts as it looks like a 570S that a boy racer has taken to Halfords
TBH, i think all the supercar manufacturers are struggling to make any new model any different from the last, because broadly speaking, we are the limit of practicable physics (and waaay beyond the limit of what's useable on the road). I mean, any modern supercar is cracking the 0-60 in sub 3 sec, gets to 100 in about 5, and then to 186 in about 20 sec. Realistically, there is no more "fast" left to go. The average owner is now, by far, the weakest link, no one will be able to tell the difference between a car that does 2.8 sec to 60 an done that takes a yawning 3.1 seconds to do the same increment, and in the real world, you can't get close to those limits.They do have a strange design policy in that some are completely new cars and some are evolutions of previous models.
12C - 650S - 720S are clearly three very different looking cars.
570S - 600LT is trickier without seeing the exhausts as it looks like a 570S that a boy racer has taken to Halfords
So when a new "supercar" comes out, tbh, i'm bored of them all!
Max_Torque said:
Lee Jones Jnr said:
I think perhaps you just don't have the interest in them to tell the difference.
They do have a strange design policy in that some are completely new cars and some are evolutions of previous models.
12C - 650S - 720S are clearly three very different looking cars.
570S - 600LT is trickier without seeing the exhausts as it looks like a 570S that a boy racer has taken to Halfords
TBH, i think all the supercar manufacturers are struggling to make any new model any different from the last, because broadly speaking, we are the limit of practicable physics (and waaay beyond the limit of what's useable on the road). I mean, any modern supercar is cracking the 0-60 in sub 3 sec, gets to 100 in about 5, and then to 186 in about 20 sec. Realistically, there is no more "fast" left to go. The average owner is now, by far, the weakest link, no one will be able to tell the difference between a car that does 2.8 sec to 60 an done that takes a yawning 3.1 seconds to do the same increment, and in the real world, you can't get close to those limits.They do have a strange design policy in that some are completely new cars and some are evolutions of previous models.
12C - 650S - 720S are clearly three very different looking cars.
570S - 600LT is trickier without seeing the exhausts as it looks like a 570S that a boy racer has taken to Halfords
So when a new "supercar" comes out, tbh, i'm bored of them all!
Max_Torque said:
TBH, i think all the supercar manufacturers are struggling to make any new model any different from the last, because broadly speaking, we are the limit of practicable physics (and waaay beyond the limit of what's useable on the road). I mean, any modern supercar is cracking the 0-60 in sub 3 sec, gets to 100 in about 5, and then to 186 in about 20 sec. Realistically, there is no more "fast" left to go. The average owner is now, by far, the weakest link, no one will be able to tell the difference between a car that does 2.8 sec to 60 an done that takes a yawning 3.1 seconds to do the same increment, and in the real world, you can't get close to those limits.
So when a new "supercar" comes out, tbh, i'm bored of them all!
This sums up why I feel some of the classics still make strong money. I went out in an Aventador SVJ over the weekend and whilst the stats are super impressive (and it’s So when a new "supercar" comes out, tbh, i'm bored of them all!
) there’s no way I’d pick that over my old 328GTS that I felt I could properly push and engage with without hypersonic speeds being involved. It’s time for these manufacturers to stop basing things around a wind tunnel, appreciate that most buyers don’t care about 2.8s 0-60 vs 3.8s 0-60 and give the designers free reign to design a proper, beautiful modern classic.
Petrus1983 said:
This sums up why I feel some of the classics still make strong money. I went out in an Aventador SVJ over the weekend and whilst the stats are super impressive (and it’s ) there’s no way I’d pick that over my old 328GTS that I felt I could properly push and engage with without hypersonic speeds being involved.
It’s time for these manufacturers to stop basing things around a wind tunnel, appreciate that most buyers don’t care about 2.8s 0-60 vs 3.8s 0-60 and give the designers free reign to design a proper, beautiful modern classic.
I completely agree, numbers aren’t what make you enjoy a car, experiences are - but the problem is the numbers ARE what sells. People, especially blokes, just can’t help themselves but compare, even if the comparison is about technicalities and not the stuff that matters, the enjoyment it provides. It’s how we’re wired. An urge to quantify who’s the best.) there’s no way I’d pick that over my old 328GTS that I felt I could properly push and engage with without hypersonic speeds being involved. It’s time for these manufacturers to stop basing things around a wind tunnel, appreciate that most buyers don’t care about 2.8s 0-60 vs 3.8s 0-60 and give the designers free reign to design a proper, beautiful modern classic.
It takes a very canny marketer to change this - and the problem is that anybody can try and advertise around their car being the most enjoyable, that’s not only subjective but also applicable to the whole automotive sector and therefore meaningless as a distinguishing quality - if everyone’s saying their car is great fun then who do you listen to? Nobody. Numbers are at least a way of showing that yours is empirically better.
It’s a tricky situation and I’m certainly not clever enough to invent an alternative. Even Apple who used to be all about the user experience in their products and marketing, making you feel good, now pretty much find themselves competing on metrics like everybody else.
A1VDY said:
Great Post and sums up the reality of it all..
Worst still, the traffic levels in the UK at least keep climbing. When i got my car license in 1981 there were 19.3 million vehicles on the road. Today there are 38.6 million. Which is basically a doubling.(source VEH0103 at https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-set... )
Realistically, any modern super/hypercar is a waste of time as a driving machine on normal roads unless you can find an empty road in the scottish highlands. You cant overtake. You are stuck in a procession. Add in speed cameras etc, and a supercar is realistically no faster from A to B than a hot hatchback. Which itself can easily be as quick as a junior, even senior supercar of the 80s. The days of fast runs across france are long long long gone.
What to do? If you want to "make progress" and have an intense road experience, get a decent motorbike. Even an 800cc is quicker on the road than any supercar, in real-world driving.
On my BMW Garmin satnav on my BMW K1300S, it has two modes -- car and motorbike. Bike mode route planning is about 30% faster on mapping than car mode, and thats a realistic outcome without being a hooligan.
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