Alpine A110 to be axed?

[CABC]

Noesph said:

I find it weird that Peugeot is number one, and Citroen is number 18 on that list, when its all the same company, with many Peugeot's and Citroen's being built in the same factory.

isn't JDP based on user surveys? so expectations of users plays a role, and hence Skoda always does well.
studies from Warranty Direct are more objective and based on actual costs/time to repair.

[Megaflow]

lukeharding said:

Thats pretty interesting. Is there any benefit to Koeniggsegg doing it or is it just a marketing ploy Orr because they can afford it because they're very detached from the standard market?

Just marketing / they can afford the cost of the minimal benefits at that price point.

There are benefits to it, but those benefits do not outweigh the negatives when you try and put it into a volume environment.

[blade7]

blueg33 said:

Stop talking sense, PH is full of people who cant afford a car they want and therefore the car is too expensive - tey never seem to consider that they are too poor.......;)

[TWPC]

ash73 said:

Owners must be pleased, these cars are going to become very collectable, imo.

Agree that they will be collectable!

Might its story be compared to the TVR Sagaris in future? A great car on sale for only a couple of years skewered for reasons unrelated to the car itself.

[The Voice]

blueg33 said:

Olivera said:

The Voice said:

As has been said, they got the price point wrong. It’s simply too expensive. That’s why they haven’t sold many.

It needed to be nearer £30k than £50k.

For a bespoke all-aluminium lightweight RWD sports-car platform? Never gonna happen. 30k would reduce it to something like a GT86/BRZ, which gets relentless flak on here...

Stop talking sense, PH is full of people who cant afford a car they want and therefore the car is too expensive - tey never seem to consider that they are too poor.......;)

Alas, I am indeed too poor to afford a £30k car, let alone a £50k one - but thanks for pointing that out, really nice of you. I’ll make a mental note not to comment on cars I can’t afford in the future.

[SpeckledJim]

MC Bodge said:

blueg33 said:

A Lange and Sohne

Is that a good watch?

Does it tell the time better than my Timex?

It’s an extremely expensive watch. It beats a Rolex in an expensive watch competition.

Most Rolex owners won’t know that, because they bought their Rolex because it’s the most famous expensive watch. Not the most expensive, just the most famous.

No expensive watches are as good as your timex at telling the time.

All expensive watch owners ignore that bit.

[kambites]

Max_Torque said:

2) Vauxhall - dead (nobody wants one now, even less people want one in 5 years)

Vauxhall is already just a rebranding exercise, I can't imagine it costs much? Or are you saying you think Opel will disappear?

[Fittster]

JxJ Jr. said:

Fittster said:

Coming up with a new brand is hard. Did Toyota achieve it with Lexus? You can make an argument that their cars are up their with Merc/Audi/BMW but you don't see many driving about.

Nissan failed with the Infiniti brand.

Merc couldn't revive maybach

Maybe Telsa will be able to stay as a premium brand.

Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 20th May 17:01

Alpine isn't a new brand, it's a revived one.

Lexus' main target market isn't Europe, it's the US where it has done very well. Ditto Infiniti, but not as well as Lexus, and definitely a failure in Europe.

Maybach's first attempt at a rebirth was indeed a misfire, but the revised approach is doing well. More Maybach S-classes were selling in China than XJs.

Alpine is an obscure brand, that most people with 50K to spend on a car haven't heard of. Lorraine-Dietrich may have a find pedigree but no one is going to revive them.

How many XJs are currently being sold in China?

BMW, Merc and Audi can sell in Europe and the US, why can't Lexus?

[MC Bodge]

SpeckledJim said:

It’s an extremely expensive watch. It beats a Rolex in an expensive watch competition.

Most Rolex owners won’t know that, because they bought their Rolex because it’s the most famous expensive watch. Not the most expensive, just the most famous.

No expensive watches are as good as your timex at telling the time.

All expensive watch owners ignore that bit.

Cheers, I'm not into jewellery. I'll keep the Timex.

[anonymous-user]

john41901 said:

If only all the nonsense spewed by keyboard warriors actually translated into sales...

Yes, it's as simple as that. Time and again there are threads with page after page of internet enthusiasm. Then, when we eventually see the sales figures, only a handful of cars have actually left the dealerships.

[davidif]

SpeckledJim said:

MC Bodge said:

blueg33 said:

A Lange and Sohne

Is that a good watch?

Does it tell the time better than my Timex?

It’s an extremely expensive watch. It beats a Rolex in an expensive watch competition.

Most Rolex owners won’t know that, because they bought their Rolex because it’s the most famous expensive watch. Not the most expensive, just the most famous.

No expensive watches are as good as your timex at telling the time.

All expensive watch owners ignore that bit.

Going off topic here but why do the anti Rolex brigade trot this sort of nonsense out time and again?

[The Hypno-Toad]

lukeharding said:

Max_Torque said:

BINGO!


Well if the ICE engine is around for years, you'd best like the one you are driving at the moment, because NO ONE is developing any new ones now.

And if they aren't developing them, you can't buy them, no matter how great you think the ICE actually is..........

Aren't Aston Martin developing a new six cylinder at the moment? Even with the progression to EV surely not ALL manufacturers have stopped development? I think Ford are a bit behind the EV curve, aren't they?

And that new Maserati which is going to be ICE, hybrid and EV is coming with a new engine and apparently all in house no less!

And Mazda are developing an in line 6 cylinder Skyactive X engine for both their own products and it will also find its way into the next generation Lexus sports car.

Having said that I agree with most of what you suggest in your original post, there will be a major cull of brands coming up very shortly.
Interesting that this story from the Renault side of Nissan/Renault group seems to tie in with the major planned overhaul that Reuters leaked at the beginning of the month and is also due to be announced next week. But to go back to the point of the thread.....







NO!!!!!! You can't do this, my lottery numbers haven't come in yet!! NO!!!!!!

[MC Bodge]

davidif said:

Going off topic here but why do the anti Rolex brigade trot this sort of nonsense out time and again?

Isn't there a special forum on here for people to talk about wrist jewellery?

[JxJ Jr.]

Fittster said:

Alpine is an obscure brand, that most people with 50K to spend on a car haven't heard of. Lorraine-Dietrich may have a find pedigree but no one is going to revive them.

How many XJs are currently being sold in China?

BMW, Merc and Audi can sell in Europe and the US, why can't Lexus?

Sure, it's not the most well-known, but between the original A110, the A310 and A610 it's reasonably well known amongst enthusiasts of at least two generations or so. Don't forget that brand-awareness in the UK is not necessarily representative of the rest of Europe, certainly it won't be of France.

XJs? Now, none. But even when they were, that a single, top, niche variant that is the Maybach was outselling all versions of a cheaper luxury saloon should hopefully get across that it isn't the pointless/failure/garish/whatever car elsewhere that we might think it is here.

Lexus could, or at least they could try if they put a lot resources and money into it and put European requirements as the top priority. But the European market is the toughest, most competitive region whereas the Japanese are well entrenched in the US having taken market share over decades from the Big 3. So, big, easy US market or smaller, harder European market? The US wins. Infiniti is the perfect example - created to target the US market, going for decades, tries expanding to Europe, products don't cut it. What to do? Create vehicles specially for Europe or go home? It's the latter. Conversely the Europeans are doing the opposite - the VW Atlas and Mercedes GL/GLS were created because the European products weren't cutting it in the US.

[blueg33]

The Voice said:

blueg33 said:

Olivera said:

The Voice said:

As has been said, they got the price point wrong. It’s simply too expensive. That’s why they haven’t sold many.

It needed to be nearer £30k than £50k.

For a bespoke all-aluminium lightweight RWD sports-car platform? Never gonna happen. 30k would reduce it to something like a GT86/BRZ, which gets relentless flak on here...

Stop talking sense, PH is full of people who cant afford a car they want and therefore the car is too expensive - tey never seem to consider that they are too poor.......;)

Alas, I am indeed too poor to afford a £30k car, let alone a £50k one - but thanks for pointing that out, really nice of you. I’ll make a mental note not to comment on cars I can’t afford in the future.

I can’t afford a £200k car, I’m simply not wealthy enough? However I don’t believe that means I can say it’s too expensive, plenty of people buy them.

Likewise the Alpine, they appear to be selling at the rate they expected. To me that means the price is about right.

Pretty much every car would sell more if it was cheaper so it always seems an odd argument to make, especially when every single competitor in terms of nice and performance starts at about the same price.

[unsprung]

A friend in a major city of Germany rang up Alpine to enquire about test drives and options and so on.

He, a German national, says that he could get nobody on the phone to help him. He ended up ringing Alpine in France, who also were unable to help, but they did take his details. The following week he received a call back along with the answers he needed.

Today he is a happy owner, but shakes his head at the friction experienced early on, in the shopping process.

"They should have a showroom conspicuously located on a major boulevard here in town," he told me.

"Do they have a campaign to put bums in seats? To provide test drives at scale to dozens of likely prospects? Say, on the weekends?" I asked.

"Nothing like that here in Germany," he replied.

[giveitfish]

To the people saying they’ve never seen one and they’re not selling - original sales target was 3000 cars per year. Not 3000 for the UK, 3000 total for the whole of Europe. That’s 2000 less than Mclaren.

https://europe.autonews.com/article/20170305/BLOG1...

I don’t think they’ve been a flop at all, but to progress the brand will need a lot of continued investment. It’ll be a terrible shame if they don’t get it, I love the fact that they exist at all.

[The Voice]

blueg33 said:

The Voice said:

blueg33 said:

Olivera said:

The Voice said:

As has been said, they got the price point wrong. It’s simply too expensive. That’s why they haven’t sold many.

It needed to be nearer £30k than £50k.

For a bespoke all-aluminium lightweight RWD sports-car platform? Never gonna happen. 30k would reduce it to something like a GT86/BRZ, which gets relentless flak on here...

Stop talking sense, PH is full of people who cant afford a car they want and therefore the car is too expensive - tey never seem to consider that they are too poor.......;)

Alas, I am indeed too poor to afford a £30k car, let alone a £50k one - but thanks for pointing that out, really nice of you. I’ll make a mental note not to comment on cars I can’t afford in the future.

I can’t afford a £200k car, I’m simply not wealthy enough? However I don’t believe that means I can say it’s too expensive, plenty of people buy them.

Likewise the Alpine, they appear to be selling at the rate they expected. To me that means the price is about right.

Pretty much every car would sell more if it was cheaper so it always seems an odd argument to make, especially when every single competitor in terms of nice and performance starts at about the same price.

You’re perfectly entitled to say you think £200k is too expensive, if that’s what you believe. You might well be right. That’s the thing with opinions; everyone’s got one, and rightly so.

[blueg33]

The Voice said:

blueg33 said:

The Voice said:

blueg33 said:

Olivera said:

The Voice said:

As has been said, they got the price point wrong. It’s simply too expensive. That’s why they haven’t sold many.

It needed to be nearer £30k than £50k.

For a bespoke all-aluminium lightweight RWD sports-car platform? Never gonna happen. 30k would reduce it to something like a GT86/BRZ, which gets relentless flak on here...

Stop talking sense, PH is full of people who cant afford a car they want and therefore the car is too expensive - tey never seem to consider that they are too poor.......;)

Alas, I am indeed too poor to afford a £30k car, let alone a £50k one - but thanks for pointing that out, really nice of you. I’ll make a mental note not to comment on cars I can’t afford in the future.

I can’t afford a £200k car, I’m simply not wealthy enough? However I don’t believe that means I can say it’s too expensive, plenty of people buy them.

Likewise the Alpine, they appear to be selling at the rate they expected. To me that means the price is about right.

Pretty much every car would sell more if it was cheaper so it always seems an odd argument to make, especially when every single competitor in terms of nice and performance starts at about the same price.

You’re perfectly entitled to say you think £200k is too expensive, if that’s what you believe. You might well be right. That’s the thing with opinions; everyone’s got one, and rightly so.

Anyone can hold that opinion I agree. But logic fails if people are saying something should be cheaper if it’s hitting it’s sales targets and is pitched the same price as the obvious competition.

[untakenname]

Fittster said:

Why wouldn't you? I can show you evidence they are reliable:

https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...

I have had first hand evidence that they aren't reliable, had a low milege 206 in the household where both the lights and indicators worked but not both at the same time which was obviously an issue at night, was caused by the steering wheel squib connections wearing out.

Looked it up online for a fix (simple relay to run the lights direct) and was astounded that there was a multiple page thread dedicated to the same issue that had dozens of owners in the same boat, why VOSA didn't issue an urgent recall is bewildering.