Why did people spec auto on performance cars?
Discussion
Pan Pan Pan said:
DoubleD said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
DoubleD said:
What driver aids do F1 cars have? They have things that they can adjust on the car, but they dont have things like abs or tc?
How about computer controlled active suspension, Anti lock Brakes, Launch Control, continuously variable transmissions, computer controlled 4 wheel steering to name but a few?Active Suspension - Banned end 1993
ABS - Banned end 1993
Launch Control - Banned end 1993, returned 2001 and banned again end 2007
4WS - Banned end 1993
Current F1 cars have no "driver aids" as we would typically state it, apart from adjustable brake bias, adjustable differential settings, adjustable throttle maps but these must be managed by the driver.
Edited by GroundEffect on Wednesday 1st July 11:49
Pan Pan Pan said:
Paul_M3 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Errr, I think you will find that in fact they do.
Did you last watch F1 in 1993?https://www.fia.com/file/107562/download/29875
DoubleD said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Paul_M3 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Errr, I think you will find that in fact they do.
Did you last watch F1 in 1993?xjay1337 said:
rockin said:
xjay1337 said:
Exactly - so boring. All helps keep Porsche's value stupidly high. It's OK though, because if you ever bought one with warranty but decided to fit non N Rated tyres to it, or a better battery, your warranty is invalid. Oops.
Sideways and Cerb4.5lee make a couple of sensible observations and then you turn up.Would you like some vinegar with that chip?
s off. People can have different opinions to you. Also my qualms with Porsche are valid I think - too many "nice" ones are owned by people who view them as investments not driving machines which means people like you and I can't ever realistically look to own one (but that's fine I'll just work harder - but what that's not enough as you can't get a new RS model without being a long standing Porsche customer or a celebrity!).
.
But mainly, I think some terms of their warranty are ridiculous. for example forcing you to fit specific tyres, brake pads or batteries (on an Enthusiast car surely tyres and brake pads are very specific to individual drivers)
But that's just me
As for the warranty, if the cars are designed/optimised for certain parts then why should the manufacturer support issues related to not using those recommended parts? Nothing weird or restrictive about that at all.
If you cant afford one and don't drive one how do you know the effect ( or lack of ) that switching from the recommended lists of tyres/pads makes? Or is it just a hunch?
GroundEffect said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
DoubleD said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
DoubleD said:
What driver aids do F1 cars have? They have things that they can adjust on the car, but they dont have things like abs or tc?
How about computer controlled active suspension, Anti lock Brakes, Launch Control, continuously variable transmissions, computer controlled 4 wheel steering to name but a few?Pan Pan Pan said:
I am sometimes amused by those who buy a car with automatic this, and computer controlled that, and heaven only knows how many other electronic driver aids, who still manage to believe that somehow `they' are a driving god, (when really it is just the car doing the driving) and without all the driver aids, they would just be mediocre drivers at best.
I personally prefer cars without driving aids(the TVR I had is a good example), and I don't care much for ESP/traction control etc. But then I've been criticised on here that I must be some sort of driving god(which I'm not by the way). I just personally prefer me to be in charge of driving the car, rather than a load of electronics/computers. I find that most traction control systems get in the way(cut power or brake a wheel) rather than actually aid what I'm doing. This probably also explains why I'm not a fan of an auto gearbox as well.
GroundEffect said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
DoubleD said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
DoubleD said:
What driver aids do F1 cars have? They have things that they can adjust on the car, but they dont have things like abs or tc?
How about computer controlled active suspension, Anti lock Brakes, Launch Control, continuously variable transmissions, computer controlled 4 wheel steering to name but a few?Active Suspension - Banned end 1993
ABS - Banned end 1993
Launch Control - Banned end 1993, returned 2001 and banned again end 2007
4WS - Banned end 1993
Current F1 cars have no "driver aids" as we would typically state it, apart from adjustable brake bias, adjustable differential settings, adjustable throttle maps but these must be managed by the driver.
Edited by GroundEffect on Wednesday 1st July 11:49
cerb4.5lee said:
I personally prefer cars without driving aids(the TVR I had is a good example), and I don't care much for ESP/traction control etc. But then I've been criticised on here that I must be some sort of driving god(which I'm not by the way).
I just personally prefer me to be in charge of driving the car, rather than a load of electronics/computers. I find that most traction control systems get in the way(cut power or brake a wheel) rather than actually aid what I'm doing. This probably also explains why I'm not a fan of an auto gearbox as well.
What's wrong with switching them off when you want to, leaving them on as appropriate? I appreciate ABS can't be. TVR should've offered 'safety aids' as an optioon where possible, imho. But then I'm biased I just personally prefer me to be in charge of driving the car, rather than a load of electronics/computers. I find that most traction control systems get in the way(cut power or brake a wheel) rather than actually aid what I'm doing. This probably also explains why I'm not a fan of an auto gearbox as well.
https://www.fia.com/file/107562/download/29875
9.6.5 Continuously variable transmission systems are not permitted to transmit the power of the
power unit defined in Article 5.1.
10.1.1 Cars must be fitted with sprung suspension.
10.1.2 Any suspension system fitted to the front wheels must be so arranged that its response
results only from changes in load applied to the front wheels.
10.1.3 Any suspension system fitted to the rear wheels must be so arranged that its response
results only from changes in load applied to the rear wheels.
10.2 Suspension geometry :
10.2.1 With the steering wheel fixed, the position of each wheel centre and the orientation of its
rotation axis must be completely and uniquely defined by a function of its principally
vertical suspension travel, save only for the effects of reasonable compliance which does
not intentionally provide further degrees of freedom.
10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the
performance of any part of any suspension system is forbidden.
10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion
10.4 Steering :
10.4.1 Any steering system which permits the re?alignment of more than two wheels is not
permitted.
11.7 Brake pressure modulation :
11.7.1 No braking system may be designed to prevent wheels from locking when the driver applies
pressure to the brake pedal.
11.7.2 No braking system may be designed to increase the pressure in the brake calipers above that
achieved by the driver applying pressure to the pedal under all conditions.
9.6.5 Continuously variable transmission systems are not permitted to transmit the power of the
power unit defined in Article 5.1.
10.1.1 Cars must be fitted with sprung suspension.
10.1.2 Any suspension system fitted to the front wheels must be so arranged that its response
results only from changes in load applied to the front wheels.
10.1.3 Any suspension system fitted to the rear wheels must be so arranged that its response
results only from changes in load applied to the rear wheels.
10.2 Suspension geometry :
10.2.1 With the steering wheel fixed, the position of each wheel centre and the orientation of its
rotation axis must be completely and uniquely defined by a function of its principally
vertical suspension travel, save only for the effects of reasonable compliance which does
not intentionally provide further degrees of freedom.
10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the
performance of any part of any suspension system is forbidden.
10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion
10.4 Steering :
10.4.1 Any steering system which permits the re?alignment of more than two wheels is not
permitted.
11.7 Brake pressure modulation :
11.7.1 No braking system may be designed to prevent wheels from locking when the driver applies
pressure to the brake pedal.
11.7.2 No braking system may be designed to increase the pressure in the brake calipers above that
achieved by the driver applying pressure to the pedal under all conditions.
DoubleD said:
GroundEffect said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
DoubleD said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
DoubleD said:
What driver aids do F1 cars have? They have things that they can adjust on the car, but they dont have things like abs or tc?
How about computer controlled active suspension, Anti lock Brakes, Launch Control, continuously variable transmissions, computer controlled 4 wheel steering to name but a few?Active Suspension - Banned end 1993
ABS - Banned end 1993
Launch Control - Banned end 1993, returned 2001 and banned again end 2007
4WS - Banned end 1993
Current F1 cars have no "driver aids" as we would typically state it, apart from adjustable brake bias, adjustable differential settings, adjustable throttle maps but these must be managed by the driver.
Edited by GroundEffect on Wednesday 1st July 11:49
But surely an electronic gearbox operated by paddles and not a gear lever, is exactly what the subject of this thread is? Not forgetting electronic power steering of course
.Pan Pan Pan said:
I stand corrected, but don't know much about F1 these days, because it is so boring, which was why I had to google it.
But surely an electronic gearbox operated by paddles and not a gear lever, is exactly what the subject of this thread is? Not forgetting electronic power steering of course.
You dont know much about it, but you know its boring? But surely an electronic gearbox operated by paddles and not a gear lever, is exactly what the subject of this thread is? Not forgetting electronic power steering of course
.Sticks. said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I personally prefer cars without driving aids(the TVR I had is a good example), and I don't care much for ESP/traction control etc. But then I've been criticised on here that I must be some sort of driving god(which I'm not by the way).
I just personally prefer me to be in charge of driving the car, rather than a load of electronics/computers. I find that most traction control systems get in the way(cut power or brake a wheel) rather than actually aid what I'm doing. This probably also explains why I'm not a fan of an auto gearbox as well.
What's wrong with switching them off when you want to, leaving them on as appropriate? I appreciate ABS can't be. TVR should've offered 'safety aids' as an optioon where possible, imho. But then I'm biased I just personally prefer me to be in charge of driving the car, rather than a load of electronics/computers. I find that most traction control systems get in the way(cut power or brake a wheel) rather than actually aid what I'm doing. This probably also explains why I'm not a fan of an auto gearbox as well.
I will admit that I don't mind ABS though, and I did get a bit sick of the front brakes locking up occasionally on the TVR!
av185 said:
Whilst manual transmission on a fast car is clearly a challenge and step too far which many don't like, try changing gear with one hand and appropriate clutch use so as not to upset the cars balance and simultaneously managing steering and braking input when the car is on its limit. Not easy.
Therein lies the challenge but so satisfying to get right when you do.
It is however certainly not difficult. I'm in no way a driving god but even my fat and bald self can manage that!Therein lies the challenge but so satisfying to get right when you do.
Edited by av185 on Wednesday 1st July 11:10
Edited by av185 on Wednesday 1st July 11:12
NewUsername said:
Soooo have you any numbers about who owns as an investment and who doesn't drive them? Is it mutually exclusive?
As for the warranty, if the cars are designed/optimised for certain parts then why should the manufacturer support issues related to not using those recommended parts? Nothing weird or restrictive about that at all.
If you cant afford one and don't drive one how do you know the effect ( or lack of ) that switching from the recommended lists of tyres/pads makes? Or is it just a hunch?
It's clearly listed in the T&C. Also many members on here have reported they have to change non "N spec" tyres or a non Porsche battery in order to continue with a warranty claim.As for the warranty, if the cars are designed/optimised for certain parts then why should the manufacturer support issues related to not using those recommended parts? Nothing weird or restrictive about that at all.
If you cant afford one and don't drive one how do you know the effect ( or lack of ) that switching from the recommended lists of tyres/pads makes? Or is it just a hunch?
Bits about not modifying engine , suspension , gearbox are fine. Tyres and brakes are not fine on an enthusiast car.
DoubleD said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
I stand corrected, but don't know much about F1 these days, because it is so boring, which was why I had to google it.
But surely an electronic gearbox operated by paddles and not a gear lever, is exactly what the subject of this thread is? Not forgetting electronic power steering of course.
You dont know much about it, but you know its boring? But surely an electronic gearbox operated by paddles and not a gear lever, is exactly what the subject of this thread is? Not forgetting electronic power steering of course
.Do F1 cars still have any form of traction control, or was that recently banned too?
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