RE: TVR seeks £25m investment to secure future
Discussion
chelme said:
Fair to say Bentley and Rolls Royce receive A LOT of support from their German owners, so they can be excluded from the list. I suspect Aston has links to German suppliers.
Mc Laren? I'd be interested to know where McLaren their materials from. It would not surprise me if they shipped a lot of their supplies in too.
I like the way you don’t let your lack of knowledge getting in the way of your posts.Mc Laren? I'd be interested to know where McLaren their materials from. It would not surprise me if they shipped a lot of their supplies in too.
McLaren chassis, engines and the majority of the components are designed and manufactured in Britain- a lot of it in house
Aston Martin use Mercedes engines In some of their models and some of the internal electrical architecture, but that’s only some models and has only happened very recently. Most of it is bespoke to Aston Martin and designed in house.
Rolls Royce and Bentley are heavily dependent on parent companies for parts and components but, again, a lot it is bespoke and built in house
Edited by Elliot2000 on Thursday 25th June 17:03
Argleton said:
Should be renamed Audacity Capital.
The 'new roof' is a bit like when a vicar needs a new roof for a church and has to do a few village fetes.
Bit simplified, bit the gist of the following is true. The Dean notices that it's cheaper to buy scaffolding for the cathedral rather than hire it. There's no convenient place to store their purchasr, so they just put it up and leave it in place. And it makes it look like the roof look like it's always being repaired and that helps with fundraising. I seem to remember that the same bloke also bought a fire engine to reduce the cost of insurance. He's now buried at Winchester amongst the graves of the men who have held the same office for the last thousand years, which is rather good.The 'new roof' is a bit like when a vicar needs a new roof for a church and has to do a few village fetes.
chelme said:
The ecosystem to assist in the manufacture of perceived high quality materials simply does not exist in the UK presently, when compared to France, Italy and Germany. Nor it seems, do the knowledge and skills to start from scratch and compete...
We can thank the decision by succession of governments in the UK to focus on services industry, the lack of management knowledge and skills within the manufacturing industry, as well as the lack of appetite and appropriate finance to help support these ventures..
Oh and did I mention the adversarial nature of the relationship between management and the workforce/unions etc.?
British manufacturers were struggling the compete even when the likes of BL was about.
Then you have coronavirus and arguably Brexit wading in...
It will be very high mountain to climb if UK is to attempt at competing with the others who have been in the running since the UK decided to sell up and pursue inward investment.
The UK could take advantage of the current EV distruption and seek to build something akin to a Tesla, but again, the ecosystem is not conducive for this.
Instead, the UK will probably be supplying individual parts, like for example, driveshafts, or battery packs...
What complete twaddle. We can thank the decision by succession of governments in the UK to focus on services industry, the lack of management knowledge and skills within the manufacturing industry, as well as the lack of appetite and appropriate finance to help support these ventures..
Oh and did I mention the adversarial nature of the relationship between management and the workforce/unions etc.?
British manufacturers were struggling the compete even when the likes of BL was about.
Then you have coronavirus and arguably Brexit wading in...
It will be very high mountain to climb if UK is to attempt at competing with the others who have been in the running since the UK decided to sell up and pursue inward investment.
The UK could take advantage of the current EV distruption and seek to build something akin to a Tesla, but again, the ecosystem is not conducive for this.
Instead, the UK will probably be supplying individual parts, like for example, driveshafts, or battery packs...
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 14:41
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 14:55
As for TVR, it's just getting sad now. Who is going to give a management team that can't patch a factory roof in 3 years 25 million quid? Never going to happen, although I hope I'm wrong.
P-Jay said:
Well... the silver lining here is that when it all ends in tears the WAG will have only sunk £2m into it, a lot less than the £9m+ it sunk into the Circuit of Wales.
I'm really tempted to take a walk down to the Senedd next week with my best Straw Boater to tell them about this great idea I've got for a Monorail. All I'll need is a catchy tune and a business plan written in pure fiction and they'll award me (or rather my freshly registered Limited Company) millions of pounds to 'invest' in creating a bit of buzz in the media, I'll probably squeeze a bit more out of them a year later before the final Coup d'état, a very public begging letter or "opportunity to invest" in a venture that could't possibly succeed.
I'm really tempted to take a walk down to the Senedd next week with my best Straw Boater to tell them about this great idea I've got for a Monorail. All I'll need is a catchy tune and a business plan written in pure fiction and they'll award me (or rather my freshly registered Limited Company) millions of pounds to 'invest' in creating a bit of buzz in the media, I'll probably squeeze a bit more out of them a year later before the final Coup d'état, a very public begging letter or "opportunity to invest" in a venture that could't possibly succeed.
It’s all over and it was 2/3 years ago. It’s dragging the name even further through the mud. I was thrilled when TVR was purchased by Les Edgar but the whole party massively underestimated what it took to get a car to production. A huge shame. Knowing what we know now, the company should have just been laid to rest in 2006.
snotrag said:
However I remember having a good look at that car (that actual car) at a show 5 or so years ago.
At the time, I worked in the Engineerinsg and Design team for a commerical vehicle builder.
The fit and finish (particularly, the bonded glass, leather clad dashboard etc) was of a standard that would have seen our vehicle snagged, sent back to the factory and requiring rework before even daring to let the customer see it. And this was the motor show car.
Even if the fit and finish were perfect, that interior is just a messy design (to my eyes).At the time, I worked in the Engineerinsg and Design team for a commerical vehicle builder.
The fit and finish (particularly, the bonded glass, leather clad dashboard etc) was of a standard that would have seen our vehicle snagged, sent back to the factory and requiring rework before even daring to let the customer see it. And this was the motor show car.
Perhaps people better in the know can chip in but surely a bond issue is not possible - who would knowingly buy a bond that is backed neither by assets nor even a revenue stream?
The £25 million might give them enough to start production but that is years away so how would they pay annual interest on the bond? Or will it all be paid at redemption? But the interest rate will be massive because of the risk so the repayment would likely be £35m after 5 years. £40m of orders (even in the fantasy world where they can build and sell all those cars) probably only means they make net profits of (say) £4m to repay the debt. So short £29m. None of it adds up at all.
The £25 million might give them enough to start production but that is years away so how would they pay annual interest on the bond? Or will it all be paid at redemption? But the interest rate will be massive because of the risk so the repayment would likely be £35m after 5 years. £40m of orders (even in the fantasy world where they can build and sell all those cars) probably only means they make net profits of (say) £4m to repay the debt. So short £29m. None of it adds up at all.
fblm said:
chelme said:
The ecosystem to assist in the manufacture of perceived high quality materials simply does not exist in the UK presently, when compared to France, Italy and Germany. Nor it seems, do the knowledge and skills to start from scratch and compete...
We can thank the decision by succession of governments in the UK to focus on services industry, the lack of management knowledge and skills within the manufacturing industry, as well as the lack of appetite and appropriate finance to help support these ventures..
Oh and did I mention the adversarial nature of the relationship between management and the workforce/unions etc.?
British manufacturers were struggling the compete even when the likes of BL was about.
Then you have coronavirus and arguably Brexit wading in...
It will be very high mountain to climb if UK is to attempt at competing with the others who have been in the running since the UK decided to sell up and pursue inward investment.
The UK could take advantage of the current EV distruption and seek to build something akin to a Tesla, but again, the ecosystem is not conducive for this.
Instead, the UK will probably be supplying individual parts, like for example, driveshafts, or battery packs...
What complete twaddle. We can thank the decision by succession of governments in the UK to focus on services industry, the lack of management knowledge and skills within the manufacturing industry, as well as the lack of appetite and appropriate finance to help support these ventures..
Oh and did I mention the adversarial nature of the relationship between management and the workforce/unions etc.?
British manufacturers were struggling the compete even when the likes of BL was about.
Then you have coronavirus and arguably Brexit wading in...
It will be very high mountain to climb if UK is to attempt at competing with the others who have been in the running since the UK decided to sell up and pursue inward investment.
The UK could take advantage of the current EV distruption and seek to build something akin to a Tesla, but again, the ecosystem is not conducive for this.
Instead, the UK will probably be supplying individual parts, like for example, driveshafts, or battery packs...
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 14:41
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 14:55
As for TVR, it's just getting sad now. Who is going to give a management team that can't patch a factory roof in 3 years 25 million quid? Never going to happen, although I hope I'm wrong.
Keep on sticking your head in the sand...there's a good lad.
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 19:31
fblm said:
chelme said:
The ecosystem to assist in the manufacture of perceived high quality materials simply does not exist in the UK presently, when compared to France, Italy and Germany. Nor it seems, do the knowledge and skills to start from scratch and compete...
We can thank the decision by succession of governments in the UK to focus on services industry, the lack of management knowledge and skills within the manufacturing industry, as well as the lack of appetite and appropriate finance to help support these ventures..
Oh and did I mention the adversarial nature of the relationship between management and the workforce/unions etc.?
British manufacturers were struggling the compete even when the likes of BL was about.
Then you have coronavirus and arguably Brexit wading in...
It will be very high mountain to climb if UK is to attempt at competing with the others who have been in the running since the UK decided to sell up and pursue inward investment.
The UK could take advantage of the current EV distruption and seek to build something akin to a Tesla, but again, the ecosystem is not conducive for this.
Instead, the UK will probably be supplying individual parts, like for example, driveshafts, or battery packs...
What complete twaddle. We can thank the decision by succession of governments in the UK to focus on services industry, the lack of management knowledge and skills within the manufacturing industry, as well as the lack of appetite and appropriate finance to help support these ventures..
Oh and did I mention the adversarial nature of the relationship between management and the workforce/unions etc.?
British manufacturers were struggling the compete even when the likes of BL was about.
Then you have coronavirus and arguably Brexit wading in...
It will be very high mountain to climb if UK is to attempt at competing with the others who have been in the running since the UK decided to sell up and pursue inward investment.
The UK could take advantage of the current EV distruption and seek to build something akin to a Tesla, but again, the ecosystem is not conducive for this.
Instead, the UK will probably be supplying individual parts, like for example, driveshafts, or battery packs...
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 14:41
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 14:55
As for TVR, it's just getting sad now. Who is going to give a management team that can't patch a factory roof in 3 years 25 million quid? Never going to happen, although I hope I'm wrong.
Keep on sticking your head in the sand...there's a good lad.
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 19:31
Elliot2000 said:
chelme said:
Fair to say Bentley and Rolls Royce receive A LOT of support from their German owners, so they can be excluded from the list. I suspect Aston has links to German suppliers.
Mc Laren? I'd be interested to know where McLaren their materials from. It would not surprise me if they shipped a lot of their supplies in too.
I like the way..blah blah.Mc Laren? I'd be interested to know where McLaren their materials from. It would not surprise me if they shipped a lot of their supplies in too.
McLaren chassis, engines and the majority of the components are designed and manufactured in Britain- a lot of it in house
Aston Martin use Mercedes engines In some of their models and some of the internal electrical architecture, but that’s only some models and has only happened very recently. Most of it is bespoke to Aston Martin
Edited by Elliot2000 on Thursday 25th June 17:03
But we won two world wars and a world cup right? So all is well and good. ;-)
I hope it works out and you see some on the road.
...but even if they get going now- by time first one is in an owners hands that’ll be a 5-6 year old design/ thought process etc.
Also a Possible hybrid TVR..... good lord the reliability issues- mind boggles! Even if its crated in from Ford.
...but even if they get going now- by time first one is in an owners hands that’ll be a 5-6 year old design/ thought process etc.
Also a Possible hybrid TVR..... good lord the reliability issues- mind boggles! Even if its crated in from Ford.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0848631...
Read this lot ... and then investors will be willing to throw another £25 million at it ...
Read this lot ... and then investors will be willing to throw another £25 million at it ...
chelme said:
Yes, yes, and here we see the poor souls going down, because let's face it, the quality is questionable...the management inept, and the system is not there to help.
But we won two world wars and a world cup right? So all is well and good. ;-)
Very good - ignore all the points made that show you have no idea what you are talking about - you claimed that uk manufacturers have neither the skill or ability to produce cars in this country by using examples of manufactures that make and produce cars in this country?!But we won two world wars and a world cup right? So all is well and good. ;-)
You seem well versed on trying to bulls
t your way through things, your not one of my old managers are you?Elliot2000 said:
chelme said:
Yes, yes, and here we see the poor souls going down, because let's face it, the quality is questionable...the management inept, and the system is not there to help.
But we won two world wars and a world cup right? So all is well and good. ;-)
Very good - ignore all the points made that show you have no idea what you are talking about - you claimed that uk manufacturers have neither the skill or ability to produce cars in this country by using examples of manufactures that make and produce cars in this country?!But we won two world wars and a world cup right? So all is well and good. ;-)
You seem well versed on trying to bulls
t your way through things, your not one of my old managers are you?What was I thinking, eh? Tut tut. ;-)
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