RE: 'Hard Top' returns to Land Rover Defender
Discussion
The man who owns the one on the right, also owns the one on the left.
He says it’s brilliant.
He uses it as a daily driver, and as a farm hack, and does plenty of stuff with it.
It’s capable, but also quiet and civilised.
It’s so far meeting all his expectations of what a modern Land Rover should be.
But please Rover lad, please tell the Camel Trophy winner that he’s wrong and that you are correct as your off road abilities and Land Rover knowledge and owning experience is superior.
A.J.M said:
The man who owns the one on the right, also owns the one on the left.
He says it’s brilliant.
He uses it as a daily driver, and as a farm hack, and does plenty of stuff with it.
It’s capable, but also quiet and civilised.
It’s so far meeting all his expectations of what a modern Land Rover should be.
But please Rover lad, please tell the Camel Trophy winner that he’s wrong and that you are correct as your off road abilities and Land Rover knowledge and owning experience is superior.
I'll post Bert's Peugeot 307 that he traded in for a 3008. Bert knows best. You, you there internet cretin, you are wrong. Bert actually knows what he's talking about he uses his Pegueot every day. Bert says its brilliant. You know nothing. Bert won his local lawn bowls trophy. So neh.
Pathetic.
Argleton said:
I'll post Bert's Peugeot 307 that he traded in for a 3008. Bert knows best. You, you there internet cretin, you are wrong. Bert actually knows what he's talking about he uses his Pegueot every day. Bert says its brilliant. You know nothing. Bert won his local lawn bowls trophy. So neh.
Well... In this particular case, 'Bert' does actually know what he's talking about and what he doesn't know isn't worth knowing anyway. 
M
camel_landy said:
Argleton said:
I'll post Bert's Peugeot 307 that he traded in for a 3008. Bert knows best. You, you there internet cretin, you are wrong. Bert actually knows what he's talking about he uses his Pegueot every day. Bert says its brilliant. You know nothing. Bert won his local lawn bowls trophy. So neh.
Well... In this particular case, 'Bert' does actually know what he's talking about and what he doesn't know isn't worth knowing anyway. M
‘Rover’ hasn’t owned A Land Rover in over 4 decades.
Yet, Rover is happy, despite the above, to lecture everyone on the subject about the rights and wrongs of the subject as if he’s a life long expert.
Bert, however, beat thousands of other entries to drive and then win, one of the hardest global Land Rover competitions ever. He’s kept his winning car, and has worked for many years in the off road sector and with the company who built the car.
I may be biased, but of the two opinions being voiced by two people, I know who’s I’m going to respect more.
A.J.M said:
‘Bert’ put his cash into buying said Land Rover.
‘Rover’ hasn’t owned A Land Rover in over 4 decades.
Yet, Rover is happy, despite the above, to lecture everyone on the subject about the rights and wrongs of the subject as if he’s a life long expert.
Bert, however, beat thousands of other entries to drive and then win, one of the hardest global Land Rover competitions ever. He’s kept his winning car, and has worked for many years in the off road sector and with the company who built the car.
I may be biased, but of the two opinions being voiced by two people, I know who’s I’m going to respect more.
But... does he sleep with one eye open?‘Rover’ hasn’t owned A Land Rover in over 4 decades.
Yet, Rover is happy, despite the above, to lecture everyone on the subject about the rights and wrongs of the subject as if he’s a life long expert.
Bert, however, beat thousands of other entries to drive and then win, one of the hardest global Land Rover competitions ever. He’s kept his winning car, and has worked for many years in the off road sector and with the company who built the car.
I may be biased, but of the two opinions being voiced by two people, I know who’s I’m going to respect more.
A.J.M said:
Bert, however, beat thousands of other entries to drive and then win, one of the hardest global Land Rover competitions ever. He’s kept his winning car, and has worked for many years in the off road sector and with the company who built the car.
Indeed... As for many years 'Bert' remained involved with said competition, training competitors and working as a support driver.His talents aren't just limited to Land Rover either, having worked with the likes of Jeep on product launches and with 3x 'middle aged gentlemen', on vehicle based antics around the globe.
...which gives me the chance to dig out an old pic of yours truly, messing around with 'Bert' on his farm:
So yes, 'Bert' knows one or two things about what makes a capable 4x4.
M
Edited by camel_landy on Tuesday 7th July 08:47
Mikebentley said:
More twaddle from P6. I love old s
t cars, look on my profile. If I only needed to travel short distances I could convince myself an old Defender would be interesting and useful and justify it on so many levels.
I am a realist though and have a nice new car for my young family. P6 you would never have purchased one anyway.
I need to update my profile, I haven't changed it since I joined years ago. Granted, I can't see myself buying a Grenadier. My 760Li suits my needs too well at the moment. I don't need a 4x4 and can't justify shelling out £40k on anything... but *if* I was, I know which I would choose, and it wouldn't be the Nude Offender. I don't care if a bloke who was on the Camel Trophy likes it. I don't. I don't care for what it looks like or its engineering approach.t cars, look on my profile. If I only needed to travel short distances I could convince myself an old Defender would be interesting and useful and justify it on so many levels. I am a realist though and have a nice new car for my young family. P6 you would never have purchased one anyway.
RoverP6B said:
I don't need a 4x4 and can't justify shelling out £40k on anything... but *if* I was, I know which I would choose, and it wouldn't be the New Defender. I don't care for what it looks like or its engineering approach.
Nothing wrong with that, we all have things that we do and don't like.DoubleD said:
RoverP6B said:
I don't need a 4x4 and can't justify shelling out £40k on anything... but *if* I was, I know which I would choose, and it wouldn't be the New Defender. I don't care for what it looks like or its engineering approach.
Nothing wrong with that, we all have things that we do and don't like....but that's no reason to belittle it though.
M
DoubleD said:
RoverP6B said:
I don't need a 4x4 and can't justify shelling out £40k on anything... but *if* I was, I know which I would choose, and it wouldn't be the New Defender. I don't care for what it looks like or its engineering approach.
Nothing wrong with that, we all have things that we do and don't like.
Mikebentley said:
I see you like the BMWs. Why the need to constantly argue that this New Defender is crap just because you don’t like it?
Because it hasn't got the hardware to back up its pretentions. If they'd called it something else, like Discovery, or Freelander (since that badge is currently unused), I wouldn't be bothered... but the Defender name, even if not particularly old in itself, carries a hell of a lot of connotations which JLR are happily, cynically exploiting for marketing reasons in an attempt to sell a product which cannot do what most traditional Land Rover buyers need. If it was the real and spiritual Defender successor some here claim it to be, the Grenadier simply wouldn't exist.NomduJour said:
What exactly do you think - with your acknowledged experience and expertise in such matters - the Grenadier (or an old Defender) can do that the new Defender cannot?
It will run out of suspension travel before the Grenadier does. The air bags could be damaged and lose pressure (a common problem with Range Rovers since the early 90s and with Disco 3/4s). It will lift a wheel where a live axle will push a wheel down and keep all four on terra firma, thus presenting an increased risk of rollover. The lack of a chassis under it also makes it more prone to damage. Yes, it can tow 3500kg, but that will be its absolute practical limit - whereas it has been known for old Land Rovers and Range Rovers to haul a hell of a lot more than that, particularly in forestry work - and some police forces' motorway patrol crews used their Range Rover Classics to shift broken-down artics out of the way. I was, in my youth, a member of and visitor to various gliding clubs that used Land Rovers to move winches weighing a hell of a lot more than 3500kg, between a big industrial diesel engine, a hefty chassis and operator safety cage, the gearbox and two bloody big winch drums each carrying three thousand feet of braided steel cable, and the means of severing it (adding to which, they would frequently get bogged down over time, making hauling them out harder)... towing gliders should be well within the capability of the new car, but winches, definitely not.Thinking of winches, can the new car even be fitted with one, let alone use it without damaging the monocoque?
I've also seen Defender RRVs used to haul bloody great hopper wagons full of granite ballast and other hefty P-way gear, as well as shunting rolling stock. In fishing ports all over the UK, I've seen Land Rovers used to haul big boats up slipways. In forestry, they're used to haul significant tonnage of timber (sometimes in trailers, but where they cannot be used safely, just dragging trees along the ground) out from hillside sites where lorries can't get in out to roadside loading points. They have been used extensively, particularly by the RAF, as rapid-response fire engines in difficult-to-access sites (especially in 6x6 form) - quite a few lives have been saved at crash sites by Carmichael six-wheeled Landies and Rangies. I can't see the new one being able to do any of this. The adaptability and general toughness of the Grenadier promises more capability in such usage. It also has a diesel engine 50% bigger than that in the new LR, with a lot more torque, which will be useful in many applications.
Granted, Unimogs and big military surplus 4x4s exist that can do some/all of these jobs - but the fact is that Land Rovers *have* done them successfully for decades, while being able to do normal car-like stuff as well, where the more specialised machinery is too expensive, impractical, unwieldy, heavy, requires the driver to have an HGV license, or is simply not suitable or even legal to drive on the road (e.g. the old Alvis 6x6s that were the next step up from the Land Rovers and Bedford trucks in the Army suffer catastrophic transmission wind-up if driven on-road for any significant distance)... and it's precisely for such flexibility that RRVs exist. They can be driven to and from the work site and can be used to run errands. I also can't see the new LR being turned into a 6x6, fire engine, half-track or railbus, all of which Series/Defenders have done...
Now, sure, not everyone who bought an old style Land Rover did any of the above or anything comparable with them. A majority did not... but the fact is that a significant number of Land Rovers were and still are put to/converted for such use. JLR has made a conscious decision to abandon that market entirely, and instead to make another lifestyle product closely similar to that which it already offered, in a range which has already been cannibalising sales off each other, with six product lines of essentially similar independently-suspended monocoque SUVs, varying only in size and engine size/configuration and orientation. I and many others view that decision as foolish - the latest in many misjudgments made by JLR management.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff