RE: INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled

RE: INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled

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Discussion

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
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travisc said:
For the other 97% you want comfort which is why I have driven discos; Jeep Grands; shoguns. I wouldn’t put up with a series LR or old Defender for that level of discomfort but by 2020 I am hoping Grenadier / BMW can engineer something as comfortable as a 2000 Jeep Grand (live axles but comfy and dry). I don’t need it to be as comfy as a car but if it’s got half decent Comfort which a modernist vehicle should it’s a bit easier to live with and justify for occasional users like me.
It should be entirely possible

Discovery mk1, 2 and range rover classic and p38 were incredibly similar to the Defender underneath, yet worlds apart in comfort.

The major differences were:

Body mounted on rubber donuts as opposed to sitting directly on the chassis.
Rubber spring isolators
Copious amounts of sound deadening
Half Decent ergonomics
Softer spring rate
Smooth petrol engines


it's actually possible to bring a Defender reasonably close to a discovery 1 comfort levels with some modifications

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
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unsprung said:
300bhp/ton said:
Wrangler isn’t utility. It is more akin to an MX-5/Elise. Ie it is recreational.
Yes and... In one of those fascinating discoveries about product segments and product substitutions, a great number of Wrangler buyers are trading in a Boxster or Cayman (at least in the Wrangler's domestic market):

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/09/porsche-boxste...
If I'm honest. While waiting for a Jimny. I was considering two other contenders:

-ND MX-5
-GT86

I see all 3 vehicles as very much enthusiast fun vehicles. That you drive for pleasure. But are capable of daily duties.

UpBeats

122 posts

50 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
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33 pages no doscussion on price? How much will this cost?

growlerowl

334 posts

48 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
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UpBeats said:
33 pages no doscussion on price? How much will this cost?
I thought this was mentioned somewhere? £35k-50k is the range that I've seen in various places, with some people hoping for less than the lower figure. There has been nothing concrete but I think Ineos have made noises about prices that are in the range I've mentioned


InitialDave

11,853 posts

118 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
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Well, the cheapest Land Cruiser 70 series in Australia is a little under £40k, so I'd imagine they need to be aiming at roughly that kind of price point to be competitive.

MC Bodge

21,551 posts

174 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
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travisc said:
I’m not at least 97% of the time.

Most of the time I don’t in the same way most of the places in England that got flooded are probably dryish as a bone just now but if they’re bad you don’t want to be driving through them without a capable vehicle. If you live in a village (as we do) occasionally when it’s very bad it’s horrid.

I’ve only had to go out a handful of times when the rest of the country had thought better of the idea but having to do so when you pass either an abandoned council snow plough or ambulance caught in a flood makes you want a fairly hardcore vehicle with multiple locking diffs ; high air intakes for wading etc. And I’m in no way suggesting I’m a hardcore off raider I was just going to and from work!

For the other 97% you want comfort which is why I have driven discos; Jeep Grands; shoguns. I wouldn’t put up with a series LR or old Defender for that level of discomfort but by 2020 I am hoping Grenadier / BMW can engineer something as comfortable as a 2000 Jeep Grand (live axles but comfy and dry). I don’t need it to be as comfy as a car but if it’s got half decent Comfort which a modernist vehicle should it’s a bit easier to live with and justify for occasional users like me.
Fair enough. I'd have thought that an SUV at the more off-road end of the scale or crew cab would be a good choice, though.

Ps. 3% of the time would be an average of 11 days/year. Its probably far less.

Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 6th July 09:32

sisu

2,576 posts

172 months

Monday 6th July 2020
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I love the scene from last years floods, where the emergency services are in a flooded street.
Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.

As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.

DonkeyApple

54,921 posts

168 months

Monday 6th July 2020
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sisu said:
I love the scene from last years floods, where the emergency services are in a flooded street.
Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.

As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
Spend £40k on a car to help you think you can bug out in the event of a flood, abandoning your home to be ruined and life completely upended for 24 months. Or spend £40k extra to live higher up the flood plain?

Spend £40k so that 11 times a year you don’t need to drive 5 miles out of your way, along with everyone else to avoid the road that everyone knows will be flooded.

It’s a toy for white collar walts that blue collar Walt’s are going to spaff over because it’s been made to look like an old Defender.

The key is that they need to be in business a long time for the product to trickle down to where the serious buyers are who will use the car as they currently use old Land Rover products. Hopefully, there will be enough corporate fleet sales to achieve that.

The worrying aspect is that Autocar reported that they needed to sell 25,000 a year to be profitable and that’s seems to be a very big ask for a high cost, specialist, recreational vehicle.

MC Bodge

21,551 posts

174 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
sisu said:
I love the scene from last years floods, where the emergency services are in a flooded street.
Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.

As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
Yes, cars float. That's one reason why suitably prepared lorries and coaches can wade through raging torrents where cars can't.



DonkeyApple

54,921 posts

168 months

Monday 6th July 2020
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That’s got to be one hell of a gift shop that coach is heading to!! biggrin

dxg

8,121 posts

259 months

Monday 6th July 2020
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MC Bodge said:
sisu said:
I love the scene from last years floods, where the emergency services are in a flooded street.
Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.

As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
Yes, cars float. That's one reason why suitably prepared lorries and coaches can wade through raging torrents where cars can't.
He should have opened the doors. That would stop it floating...

camel_landy

4,863 posts

182 months

Monday 6th July 2020
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dxg said:
He should have opened the doors. That would stop it floating...
He should have performed a proper risk assessment and/or not gone in.

Water is more dangerous than people give it credit for.

M

MC Bodge

21,551 posts

174 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
That’s got to be one hell of a gift shop that coach is heading to!! biggrin
video

InitialDave

11,853 posts

118 months

Monday 6th July 2020
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camel_landy said:
Water is more dangerous than people give it credit for.
I think everyone with a 4x4 has, at some point, thought they'd just quickly splash through something, only to shortly afterwards find themselves on the end of a rope!


growlerowl

334 posts

48 months

Monday 6th July 2020
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Don't quite get the sneering at OLLI types and 4x4 owners whose most challenging terrain ever faced is winter potholes when there are so many other types of driver that are far more deserving of mockery, e.g. young guys with income of dubious origin flooring their farty exhausted Golf Rs at every single bloody opportunity, old people that drive at 35mph no matter if they're in a 60 or a 30 limit, drivers of deathtraps brought over on the ferry etc etc. The worst you have to suffer from 4x4 owners is generally a cloud of diesel smoke and minor hold ups from those that aren't capable of manoeuvring a big car with grace. It's no skin off your nose if someone buys a Grenadier with no intention of ever leaving the tarmac, is it?

Bombjack

483 posts

266 months

Monday 6th July 2020
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growlerowl said:
Don't quite get the sneering at OLLI types and 4x4 owners whose most challenging terrain ever faced is winter potholes when there are so many other types of driver that are far more deserving of mockery, e.g. young guys with income of dubious origin flooring their farty exhausted Golf Rs at every single bloody opportunity, old people that drive at 35mph no matter if they're in a 60 or a 30 limit, drivers of deathtraps brought over on the ferry etc etc. The worst you have to suffer from 4x4 owners is generally a cloud of diesel smoke and minor hold ups from those that aren't capable of manoeuvring a big car with grace. It's no skin off your nose if someone buys a Grenadier with no intention of ever leaving the tarmac, is it?
Some people love having a feeling of superiority over others, regardless of whether those others' supposed failing has any real bearing on their own lives.

Not me though, I'm better than people like that.

Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Monday 6th July 2020
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hehe

growlerowl

334 posts

48 months

Tuesday 7th July 2020
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Bombjack said:
ome people love having a feeling of superiority over others, regardless of whether those others' supposed failing has any real bearing on their own lives.

Not me though, I'm better than people like that.
Good for you

595Heaven

2,387 posts

77 months

Tuesday 7th July 2020
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INEOS expected to announce today that Grenadier production will be based in France, not Bridgend.

Mercedes selling off the old Smart factory... INEOS sponsor the F1 team...

Edited by 595Heaven on Tuesday 7th July 10:23

camel_landy

4,863 posts

182 months

Tuesday 7th July 2020
quotequote all
595Heaven said:
INEOS expected to announce today that Grenadier production will be based in France, not Bridgend.
frown

M