RE: INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled
Discussion
travisc said:
For the other 97% you want comfort which is why I have driven discos; Jeep Grands; shoguns. I wouldn’t put up with a series LR or old Defender for that level of discomfort but by 2020 I am hoping Grenadier / BMW can engineer something as comfortable as a 2000 Jeep Grand (live axles but comfy and dry). I don’t need it to be as comfy as a car but if it’s got half decent Comfort which a modernist vehicle should it’s a bit easier to live with and justify for occasional users like me.
It should be entirely possibleDiscovery mk1, 2 and range rover classic and p38 were incredibly similar to the Defender underneath, yet worlds apart in comfort.
The major differences were:
Body mounted on rubber donuts as opposed to sitting directly on the chassis.
Rubber spring isolators
Copious amounts of sound deadening
Half Decent ergonomics
Softer spring rate
Smooth petrol engines
it's actually possible to bring a Defender reasonably close to a discovery 1 comfort levels with some modifications
unsprung said:
300bhp/ton said:
Wrangler isn’t utility. It is more akin to an MX-5/Elise. Ie it is recreational.
Yes and... In one of those fascinating discoveries about product segments and product substitutions, a great number of Wrangler buyers are trading in a Boxster or Cayman (at least in the Wrangler's domestic market):https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/09/porsche-boxste...
-ND MX-5
-GT86
I see all 3 vehicles as very much enthusiast fun vehicles. That you drive for pleasure. But are capable of daily duties.
UpBeats said:
33 pages no doscussion on price? How much will this cost?
I thought this was mentioned somewhere? £35k-50k is the range that I've seen in various places, with some people hoping for less than the lower figure. There has been nothing concrete but I think Ineos have made noises about prices that are in the range I've mentionedtravisc said:
I’m not at least 97% of the time.
Most of the time I don’t in the same way most of the places in England that got flooded are probably dryish as a bone just now but if they’re bad you don’t want to be driving through them without a capable vehicle. If you live in a village (as we do) occasionally when it’s very bad it’s horrid.
I’ve only had to go out a handful of times when the rest of the country had thought better of the idea but having to do so when you pass either an abandoned council snow plough or ambulance caught in a flood makes you want a fairly hardcore vehicle with multiple locking diffs ; high air intakes for wading etc. And I’m in no way suggesting I’m a hardcore off raider I was just going to and from work!
For the other 97% you want comfort which is why I have driven discos; Jeep Grands; shoguns. I wouldn’t put up with a series LR or old Defender for that level of discomfort but by 2020 I am hoping Grenadier / BMW can engineer something as comfortable as a 2000 Jeep Grand (live axles but comfy and dry). I don’t need it to be as comfy as a car but if it’s got half decent Comfort which a modernist vehicle should it’s a bit easier to live with and justify for occasional users like me.
Fair enough. I'd have thought that an SUV at the more off-road end of the scale or crew cab would be a good choice, though. Most of the time I don’t in the same way most of the places in England that got flooded are probably dryish as a bone just now but if they’re bad you don’t want to be driving through them without a capable vehicle. If you live in a village (as we do) occasionally when it’s very bad it’s horrid.
I’ve only had to go out a handful of times when the rest of the country had thought better of the idea but having to do so when you pass either an abandoned council snow plough or ambulance caught in a flood makes you want a fairly hardcore vehicle with multiple locking diffs ; high air intakes for wading etc. And I’m in no way suggesting I’m a hardcore off raider I was just going to and from work!
For the other 97% you want comfort which is why I have driven discos; Jeep Grands; shoguns. I wouldn’t put up with a series LR or old Defender for that level of discomfort but by 2020 I am hoping Grenadier / BMW can engineer something as comfortable as a 2000 Jeep Grand (live axles but comfy and dry). I don’t need it to be as comfy as a car but if it’s got half decent Comfort which a modernist vehicle should it’s a bit easier to live with and justify for occasional users like me.
Ps. 3% of the time would be an average of 11 days/year. Its probably far less.
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 6th July 09:32
I love the scene from last years floods, where the emergency services are in a flooded street.
Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.
As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.
As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
sisu said:
I love the scene from last years floods, where the emergency services are in a flooded street.
Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.
As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
Spend £40k on a car to help you think you can bug out in the event of a flood, abandoning your home to be ruined and life completely upended for 24 months. Or spend £40k extra to live higher up the flood plain? Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.
As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
Spend £40k so that 11 times a year you don’t need to drive 5 miles out of your way, along with everyone else to avoid the road that everyone knows will be flooded.
It’s a toy for white collar walts that blue collar Walt’s are going to spaff over because it’s been made to look like an old Defender.
The key is that they need to be in business a long time for the product to trickle down to where the serious buyers are who will use the car as they currently use old Land Rover products. Hopefully, there will be enough corporate fleet sales to achieve that.
The worrying aspect is that Autocar reported that they needed to sell 25,000 a year to be profitable and that’s seems to be a very big ask for a high cost, specialist, recreational vehicle.
sisu said:
I love the scene from last years floods, where the emergency services are in a flooded street.
Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.
As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
Yes, cars float. That's one reason why suitably prepared lorries and coaches can wade through raging torrents where cars can't. Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.
As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
MC Bodge said:
sisu said:
I love the scene from last years floods, where the emergency services are in a flooded street.
Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.
As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
Yes, cars float. That's one reason why suitably prepared lorries and coaches can wade through raging torrents where cars can't. Bloke with a snorkel on his 4x4 has a "Hold my Beer" moment.
As the water gets to bonnet depth his vehicle gently floats, wheels spinning. The realisation that he is now in need of help as it gradually sinks nose first, the current pitching it sideways.
Don't quite get the sneering at OLLI types and 4x4 owners whose most challenging terrain ever faced is winter potholes when there are so many other types of driver that are far more deserving of mockery, e.g. young guys with income of dubious origin flooring their farty exhausted Golf Rs at every single bloody opportunity, old people that drive at 35mph no matter if they're in a 60 or a 30 limit, drivers of deathtraps brought over on the ferry etc etc. The worst you have to suffer from 4x4 owners is generally a cloud of diesel smoke and minor hold ups from those that aren't capable of manoeuvring a big car with grace. It's no skin off your nose if someone buys a Grenadier with no intention of ever leaving the tarmac, is it?
growlerowl said:
Don't quite get the sneering at OLLI types and 4x4 owners whose most challenging terrain ever faced is winter potholes when there are so many other types of driver that are far more deserving of mockery, e.g. young guys with income of dubious origin flooring their farty exhausted Golf Rs at every single bloody opportunity, old people that drive at 35mph no matter if they're in a 60 or a 30 limit, drivers of deathtraps brought over on the ferry etc etc. The worst you have to suffer from 4x4 owners is generally a cloud of diesel smoke and minor hold ups from those that aren't capable of manoeuvring a big car with grace. It's no skin off your nose if someone buys a Grenadier with no intention of ever leaving the tarmac, is it?
Some people love having a feeling of superiority over others, regardless of whether those others' supposed failing has any real bearing on their own lives.Not me though, I'm better than people like that.
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