High grip or lower grip tyres for road use?
Discussion
I saw these mentioned elsewhere and it got me thinking that a decent wet or intermediate tyre might be the best bet for a fun road car which can be enjoyed in all conditions.
Has anyone heard of these?
Does anyone know of any other manufacturers selling intermediate type tyres which are road legal?
https://www.extremetyresuk.com/product/opona-extre...
Has anyone heard of these?
Does anyone know of any other manufacturers selling intermediate type tyres which are road legal?
https://www.extremetyresuk.com/product/opona-extre...
cerb4.5lee said:
I have Michelin PS4 on the 370Z and I'd probably argue that they are a bit too grippy to be fair. However I have Michelin Primacy(similar to the GT86 I believe) on the Cooper S, and they don't have any grip at all and I'd actually prefer PS4 on that.
That’s interesting LeeIn the skidpad and steady state cornering tests the GT86 managed to pull around 1g on the standard tyres
Not up to levels of super cars but certainly as good as most hot hatch stuff of the time
If anything, I thought it was over-tyred for fun driving
The Jap base model had 195s on iirc
300bhp/ton said:
So you reckon cornering say 10mph faster with a more sudden brake away is safer than a progressive breakaway at lower speeds?
Haven’t followed the link yet. But is that site just people posting reviews based on personal opinion. Or is it scientific testing of tyres? I’m assuming you are referring to semi slick wet weather performance?
Please look at the link, and have a read .Haven’t followed the link yet. But is that site just people posting reviews based on personal opinion. Or is it scientific testing of tyres? I’m assuming you are referring to semi slick wet weather performance?
You are also assuming that a premium / sporty tyre has a more aggressive break away than a "lower grip" tyre when you have absolutely no evidence to back this up?
Michelin PS4 for example are incredibly nice breakaway.
Then again I would ask why are you using this as an example of why you want to justify fitting s
tty tyres.Cheaper lower grip tyres have worse breakaway, they are not consistent.
You've posted about NS2-R
Which are not very good in the wet at all (i've driven on them in the wet).
They are a "semi slick" (IE a track based summer tyre).
Do you do any track days? Regularly? If not, fit some PS4's and be done with it ffs.
ATM said:
I saw these mentioned elsewhere and it got me thinking that a decent wet or intermediate tyre might be the best bet for a fun road car which can be enjoyed in all conditions.
Has anyone heard of these?
Does anyone know of any other manufacturers selling intermediate type tyres which are road legal?
https://www.extremetyresuk.com/product/opona-extre...
[/thumb]
Ahh yesHas anyone heard of these?
Does anyone know of any other manufacturers selling intermediate type tyres which are road legal?
https://www.extremetyresuk.com/product/opona-extre...
[/thumb]
Retreads. Well known for their grip.
These are for drifters only. No-one is setting any records or having consistent safe handling on those.
SuperPav said:
After unexpectedly driving in some rain in a GT3 RS with the Cup (2RS?) tyres it comes with, I really would think twice about putting any semi-slick or similar track tyre on any car that's used on the road. While obviously no kittens, humans, trees or cars were harmed, it was far from a pleasant experience... Perhaps a seasoned rally driver might have revelled in such levels of lateral freedom, but it just put me on edge and wasn't enjoyable!
On older/lighter/less powerful cars, I find a mid range tyre with decent wet weather performance normally has a good balance of dry grip with enough playfulness for UK roads/weather.
Yup. I also haven’t yet mastered the total control of local weather systems either. I prefer to trade perfect condition performance for bad weather performance and head towards narrower tyres with more ‘all weather’ capability. Perfectly good in the dry heading out for the day and perfectly good when it randomly tips down. Especially for front engines RWD cars. On older/lighter/less powerful cars, I find a mid range tyre with decent wet weather performance normally has a good balance of dry grip with enough playfulness for UK roads/weather.
I use Yokohama AD08R's all year round. The car is a weekend car so is rarely used in the rain. They grip and grip and grip - I prefer grip on public roads, but I'm also sold on the idea of reducing wheel diameter size while retaining tyre dimensions to stock.
Deliberately shodding tyres with inferior grip *for fun* is a fool's paradise in my opinion. Each to their own I guess.
Deliberately shodding tyres with inferior grip *for fun* is a fool's paradise in my opinion. Each to their own I guess.
xjay1337 said:
SidewaysSi said:
Elatino1 said:
rockin said:
df76 said:
xjay1337 said:
Honestly I don't know why anyone wouldn't fit the very best tyres you can for your use.
Agreed. Would be nonsense to do anything else.He said very clearly road going Michelin. So that is literally only referring to the PS4 as that's the only UHP Summer tyre offered.
Primacy are a commuting tyre.
Cross climates are all season
Cup 2 are track tyres.
P Zero are fine good, latest versions are anyway, but all around Michelin offer the best compromise between dry and wet grip, feedback , handling , mileage and price.
Anyway if you want to be petulant, get whatever "UHP Summer" tyre from your preferred manufacturer.
Unfortunately some people don't realise you can't get a tyre that is "slip slidey at low speeds" because you're a dRiViNg EnThUsIaST - but also gives you good and consistent wet grip or braking. It's simply a delusion. If you want to be doing skids then do it on a track or a specific area designed for it, not the public road ! So the argument to fit low grip tyres is instantly null and voided.
To fit anything other than a high quality tyre is madness.
Something like a Pilot Primacy is a fine tyre for road use. I am not sure what a "commuting" tyre is but that's not how Michelin sell it. Likewise, a Pirelli P7 is fine for road use. Unless you think they are absolute death traps and only a fool would use them? We are not talking about some dodgy remoulds here..
If you look at some tyre tests done by the likes of Evo or AutoExpress, it is never usually an automatic win for Michelin and often "lesser brands" do well too.
As has been said, many people don't want a car with huge grip - this is akin to what Toyota did with the GT86 or is Toyota being negligent by selling and promoting such a car?
By the same reckoning, I need new brakes for my Forester. Should I forget getting a standard Brembo set up and instead go for a big brake conversion? It is all about safety after all...
Tyres that offer good feedback and reasonable grip.
This does depend on the car and some are more picky than others
E36 / E46 BMW wheel size / weight / tyres hardly mattered
MK1/2 MX5 wheel / tyre size / weight / type was very obvious.
200SX - I put some bigger and better wheels / tyres on and it killed the sweet handling, it possibly had higher grip but it ruined the car, I immediately swapped them back.
But you already know all this.
This does depend on the car and some are more picky than others
E36 / E46 BMW wheel size / weight / tyres hardly mattered
MK1/2 MX5 wheel / tyre size / weight / type was very obvious.
200SX - I put some bigger and better wheels / tyres on and it killed the sweet handling, it possibly had higher grip but it ruined the car, I immediately swapped them back.
But you already know all this.
xjay1337 said:
SidewaysSi said:
Hardly being obtuse
Then you go to say SidewaysSi said:
By the same reckoning, I need new brakes for my Forester. Should I forget getting a standard Brembo set up and instead go for a big brake conversion? It is all about safety after all...
As I said ... 
Either way, I expect you to be contacting every engineering department of all the OEMs and demand they only fit PS4s to all new cars. And ensure they only offer the widest tyres humanely possible when they are at it.
Anything else would just lead to the death of many kittens and children after all.
Someone on here told me to get back in my box and get someone to lock it .
A person of my acquaintance did a speed awareness course and during that course he was told of the investigation that took place if you were involved in a fatal accident. I was astonished, what you'd had for breakfast and investigations into your private life amongst others.
Imagine what they would make of someone who went on a public forum asking about tyre without too much grip.
Heaven help you if you have the misfortune to be involved in a fatal accident. Never mind me being locked in a box, how do you fancy being locked in a cell?
A person of my acquaintance did a speed awareness course and during that course he was told of the investigation that took place if you were involved in a fatal accident. I was astonished, what you'd had for breakfast and investigations into your private life amongst others.
Imagine what they would make of someone who went on a public forum asking about tyre without too much grip.
Heaven help you if you have the misfortune to be involved in a fatal accident. Never mind me being locked in a box, how do you fancy being locked in a cell?
Johnspex said:
Someone on here told me to get back in my box and get someone to lock it .
A person of my acquaintance did a speed awareness course and during that course he was told of the investigation that took place if you were involved in a fatal accident. I was astonished, what you'd had for breakfast and investigations into your private life amongst others.
Imagine what they would make of someone who went on a public forum asking about tyre without too much grip.
Heaven help you if you have the misfortune to be involved in a fatal accident. Never mind me being locked in a box, how do you fancy being locked in a cell?
The original question and all the answers to date have been whether to go semi slicks or something less grippy, everyone else interpreted that as a good quality tyre. Absolutely no one suggested fitting budget ditch finders or tyres with little or no grip. A person of my acquaintance did a speed awareness course and during that course he was told of the investigation that took place if you were involved in a fatal accident. I was astonished, what you'd had for breakfast and investigations into your private life amongst others.
Imagine what they would make of someone who went on a public forum asking about tyre without too much grip.
Heaven help you if you have the misfortune to be involved in a fatal accident. Never mind me being locked in a box, how do you fancy being locked in a cell?
SidewaysSi said:
Our definition of "being obtuse" obviously differs...
Either way, I expect you to be contacting every engineering department of all the OEMs and demand they only fit PS4s to all new cars. And ensure they only offer the widest tyres humanely possible when they are at it.
Anything else would just lead to the death of many kittens and children after all.
Not at all.Either way, I expect you to be contacting every engineering department of all the OEMs and demand they only fit PS4s to all new cars. And ensure they only offer the widest tyres humanely possible when they are at it.
Anything else would just lead to the death of many kittens and children after all.
Feel free to fit Pzero. Or s001. Or eagle F1. Or hankook s1 evo2
But I certainly wouldn't decide to fit "worse tyres" for example "Avons" or "Toyos" because I want to be "closer to the limit of slip" because of the viewpoint that "you want to be closer to break away for more driving pleasure "
What an unequivocally moronic viewpoint.
Also I wouldn't fit semi slicks TO A CAR THAT NEVER GOES ON TRACK.
That's equally moronic.
I track more than most on here and I use.....PS4...... all year round .....
xjay1337 said:
Please look at the link, and have a read .
You are also assuming that a premium / sporty tyre has a more aggressive break away than a "lower grip" tyre when you have absolutely no evidence to back this up?
Michelin PS4 for example are incredibly nice breakaway.
Then again I would ask why are you using this as an example of why you want to justify fitting stty tyres.
Cheaper lower grip tyres have worse breakaway, they are not consistent.
You've posted about NS2-R
Which are not very good in the wet at all (i've driven on them in the wet).
They are a "semi slick" (IE a track based summer tyre).
Do you do any track days? Regularly? If not, fit some PS4's and be done with it ffs.
where have I said about fitting crappy tyres??? Are you reading the wrong posts or something?You are also assuming that a premium / sporty tyre has a more aggressive break away than a "lower grip" tyre when you have absolutely no evidence to back this up?
Michelin PS4 for example are incredibly nice breakaway.
Then again I would ask why are you using this as an example of why you want to justify fitting s
tty tyres.Cheaper lower grip tyres have worse breakaway, they are not consistent.
You've posted about NS2-R
Which are not very good in the wet at all (i've driven on them in the wet).
They are a "semi slick" (IE a track based summer tyre).
Do you do any track days? Regularly? If not, fit some PS4's and be done with it ffs.
If the NS2R isn’t good in the wet. Why is it marketed as being so? As said my semi slick Pilot Sport Cup tyres were brilliant in the wet.
Johnspex said:
Someone on here told me to get back in my box and get someone to lock it .
A person of my acquaintance did a speed awareness course and during that course he was told of the investigation that took place if you were involved in a fatal accident. I was astonished, what you'd had for breakfast and investigations into your private life amongst others.
Imagine what they would make of someone who went on a public forum asking about tyre without too much grip.
Heaven help you if you have the misfortune to be involved in a fatal accident. Never mind me being locked in a box, how do you fancy being locked in a cell?
Are you being unreasonable on purpose or just plain not understanding? 99.9% of cars sold by car makers do not come on tyres offering the most grip. A person of my acquaintance did a speed awareness course and during that course he was told of the investigation that took place if you were involved in a fatal accident. I was astonished, what you'd had for breakfast and investigations into your private life amongst others.
Imagine what they would make of someone who went on a public forum asking about tyre without too much grip.
Heaven help you if you have the misfortune to be involved in a fatal accident. Never mind me being locked in a box, how do you fancy being locked in a cell?
You are off your rocker if you are saying they all shouldn’t be on the roads.
I went for the Avon zx7 on my Merc - mainly for their wet weather ability as I did lots of motorway commuting on the M62 and wqnt d them safe. In the dry they were fairly grippy, not PS4 levels - but extremely predictable. Because they were so predictable it was really really easy to explore the handling limits and also have some general tomfoolery rwd arseout fun.
Also cheaper than most of the premium stuff mentioned so far, so I didn't mind if the rears got scrubbed quickly due to having a ball
Also cheaper than most of the premium stuff mentioned so far, so I didn't mind if the rears got scrubbed quickly due to having a ball
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