Insurance as second driver with expat status
Discussion
Hello.
Apologies if this has been discussed before - please point me to thread if it has.
I am non resident in the U.K. for tax purposes but come back here every 6 to 7 weeks where my family is based. Usually in U.K. for a week or two at a time then go back abroad.
My wife has just purchased a VW Transporter converted camper van and so I called our insurer (rhymes with 100 bucks) and they politely declined to insure me as a second driver.
I have full, clean U.K. license but don’t hold a license for the country where I work.
I just want a policy that will cover me for driving in the U.K. when I am back.
Has anyone got any similar experience or know a good company who you think may be able to help? I’m wanting to drive the van with peace of mind and don’t want to cut corners anywhere.
Thanks all.
Apologies if this has been discussed before - please point me to thread if it has.
I am non resident in the U.K. for tax purposes but come back here every 6 to 7 weeks where my family is based. Usually in U.K. for a week or two at a time then go back abroad.
My wife has just purchased a VW Transporter converted camper van and so I called our insurer (rhymes with 100 bucks) and they politely declined to insure me as a second driver.
I have full, clean U.K. license but don’t hold a license for the country where I work.
I just want a policy that will cover me for driving in the U.K. when I am back.
Has anyone got any similar experience or know a good company who you think may be able to help? I’m wanting to drive the van with peace of mind and don’t want to cut corners anywhere.
Thanks all.
I am in the same situation although my insurance still covers me. I believe some of the day insurers will offer cover for you. My wife has a foreign license and I can’t get cover for her on my car anywhere, I have asked for advice on here before but no luck.
Would be interesting to hear how you get on as it’s relevant for plenty of people like us. Seems mad that even as a UK citizen with a UK license you can’t get covered on insurance in the UK !
Would be interesting to hear how you get on as it’s relevant for plenty of people like us. Seems mad that even as a UK citizen with a UK license you can’t get covered on insurance in the UK !
Not quite the same thing, but years ago the company that i worked for used a large chain for car rental - i must have had 20 or so cars & vans from them in both the UK, France, Germany, Italy & USA.
Once whilst based in Germany I flew back to the UK with a German colleague for a meeting. He was about to retire, had never driven RHD OR on the left, had 1 dodgy eye (and 1 ok one), and had no desire to tackle the M6 motorway. The same car hire company would not let me drive as I had flown in from o/seas and could not provide a non-UK licence - somehow my UK licence (that was fine for all other hires with them) was not sufficient.
We had no option but for him to reluctantly drive. The journey was awful for both of us. After not too long I had to take over the driving - the risk of incident outweighed the other risks. A long time ago and not sure how I'd play it now.
Sometimes the computer just says no. Hopefully you can find an insurer or broker that can help.
Alternatively I know that the insurer Privilege used to allow addition of overseas visitors (with international d/l) to be added as a temp driver for upto 90days a year. I think it was any duration with an admin fee payable each time. The max duration in one go was cited as being 30days - but i know some were set up for 90days in one go. Presumably 12 lots of 7days would be possible - but expensive.
Once whilst based in Germany I flew back to the UK with a German colleague for a meeting. He was about to retire, had never driven RHD OR on the left, had 1 dodgy eye (and 1 ok one), and had no desire to tackle the M6 motorway. The same car hire company would not let me drive as I had flown in from o/seas and could not provide a non-UK licence - somehow my UK licence (that was fine for all other hires with them) was not sufficient.
We had no option but for him to reluctantly drive. The journey was awful for both of us. After not too long I had to take over the driving - the risk of incident outweighed the other risks. A long time ago and not sure how I'd play it now.
Sometimes the computer just says no. Hopefully you can find an insurer or broker that can help.
Alternatively I know that the insurer Privilege used to allow addition of overseas visitors (with international d/l) to be added as a temp driver for upto 90days a year. I think it was any duration with an admin fee payable each time. The max duration in one go was cited as being 30days - but i know some were set up for 90days in one go. Presumably 12 lots of 7days would be possible - but expensive.
GT03ROB said:
What was the question they asked you or what did you actually tell them about your residence status? Your residency status for tax purposes is not necessarily your residence status for other purposes.
I spent about 30 years working overseas and had my own vehicle available in the UK for my trips back to the UK, my wife also had her own car, and i was a named driver on hers as well as being the main driver on my own car.As the post quoted says, you maybe non-resident for tax purposes but your home, and residential status is as a UK resident for all other purposes, generally.
GT03ROB said:
What was the question they asked you or what did you actually tell them about your residence status? Your residency status for tax purposes is not necessarily your residence status for other purposes.
can you explain that??as i understand it your tax residency is the definition everyone works to.
the other relevant fact that some might consider (Stuart Collins) is whether you have a fixed UK address. that still doesn't make you resident, but it's what their underwriter demands.
the other issue is what type of licence you have. some insurers differentiate between UK , EU and others. it is possible to return to the UK as a citizen and now resident again, keep an EU licence and then not find cover easily. No need to swap an EU licence (ignore brexit for now) yet some computers do not accept it, and others charge more.
CABC said:
GT03ROB said:
What was the question they asked you or what did you actually tell them about your residence status? Your residency status for tax purposes is not necessarily your residence status for other purposes.
can you explain that??as i understand it your tax residency is the definition everyone works to.
the other relevant fact that some might consider (Stuart Collins) is whether you have a fixed UK address. that still doesn't make you resident, but it's what their underwriter demands.
the other issue is what type of licence you have. some insurers differentiate between UK , EU and others. it is possible to return to the UK as a citizen and now resident again, keep an EU licence and then not find cover easily. No need to swap an EU licence (ignore brexit for now) yet some computers do not accept it, and others charge more.
The driving license you hold is definitely an issue.
GT03ROB said:
A simple example, the fact I pay tax in Kazakhstan (where I am) & am resident here for tax purposes, does not confer on me residency. That is a separate process. I am a resident of Kazakhstan for tax purposes only. I am a resident of the UK for all other purposes, but not a resident of the UK for tax purposes..
The driving license you hold is definitely an issue.
ok. that's an odd one, but the oil states are different! UK insurers normally define residency as 6 months pa living in UK, at which point you are automatically tax resident unless you have some specific exemption. So, even if you have a house in UK you are not automatically resident if you spend less than 6 mths there. similarly, if in the time you're not in uk you're in another single country for 6 months you're normally considered resident there. The driving license you hold is definitely an issue.
CABC said:
GT03ROB said:
A simple example, the fact I pay tax in Kazakhstan (where I am) & am resident here for tax purposes, does not confer on me residency. That is a separate process. I am a resident of Kazakhstan for tax purposes only. I am a resident of the UK for all other purposes, but not a resident of the UK for tax purposes..
The driving license you hold is definitely an issue.
ok. that's an odd one, but the oil states are different! UK insurers normally define residency as 6 months pa living in UK, at which point you are automatically tax resident unless you have some specific exemption. So, even if you have a house in UK you are not automatically resident if you spend less than 6 mths there. similarly, if in the time you're not in uk you're in another single country for 6 months you're normally considered resident there. The driving license you hold is definitely an issue.
GT03ROB said:
It varies country to country obviously, so it's important to understand exactly what the question was that was asked by the insurer. For most people it is fairly black & white. To use your example, if the insurer defines residency as being in the country for at least 6 months...… then you could be resident for tax purposes but not for insurance purposes. If I'm in the country for only 4 months I will almost certainly end up as being resident for UK tax purposes, but not for the insurers purposes.. You see now how one does not follow the other.
true.whole thing is a bag of worms!
op, try henderson taylor. they typically have a 5k pa limit though.
Ok thanks for all the replies.
Still not any further in my understanding of this at the moment!
Rang my wife’s insurance firm again this morning and they are saying that it’s the fact that I am not physically resident in the U.K. for more than 90 days that means they can’t insure me on her car.
I am not bright with stuff like this but I thought that despite the fact I am non resident for tax purposes that I could still be insured as a U.K. national with a U.K. address, previous insurance history and NI contributions etc.
I then followed a link to an insurance company who basically seemed to be offering insurance on a pay as you go basis...you can buy in blocks of hours or days up to a certain limit. However, a brief conversation this morning revealed that my residence status was not a problem...but the van was 😂😂. It’s a converted T5 with a registration at DVLA as a camper- they don’t want to insure me on this type of vehicle.
Will update further if I make any progress- thanks for the input so far.
Still not any further in my understanding of this at the moment!
Rang my wife’s insurance firm again this morning and they are saying that it’s the fact that I am not physically resident in the U.K. for more than 90 days that means they can’t insure me on her car.
I am not bright with stuff like this but I thought that despite the fact I am non resident for tax purposes that I could still be insured as a U.K. national with a U.K. address, previous insurance history and NI contributions etc.
I then followed a link to an insurance company who basically seemed to be offering insurance on a pay as you go basis...you can buy in blocks of hours or days up to a certain limit. However, a brief conversation this morning revealed that my residence status was not a problem...but the van was 😂😂. It’s a converted T5 with a registration at DVLA as a camper- they don’t want to insure me on this type of vehicle.
Will update further if I make any progress- thanks for the input so far.
Yeah, have had this trying to get on my mum's car insurance in the UK with my UK licence.
I think the main problem is 'flight risk'; they view you as likely to disappear if you're in an accident. Now, while we all say 'I would never do that!' and if you live/work in a country with extradition agreements etc. then it shouldn't be too difficult to locate and hold you accountable, the fact is insurers can't validate your status and residence like they can with via checking services in the UK and as they obviously don't like risk, it's generally not worth their hassle.
Once you add in non-complaint jurisdictions it just gets even more yikes from their point of view.
I think the main problem is 'flight risk'; they view you as likely to disappear if you're in an accident. Now, while we all say 'I would never do that!' and if you live/work in a country with extradition agreements etc. then it shouldn't be too difficult to locate and hold you accountable, the fact is insurers can't validate your status and residence like they can with via checking services in the UK and as they obviously don't like risk, it's generally not worth their hassle.
Once you add in non-complaint jurisdictions it just gets even more yikes from their point of view.
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