How long to cool down.
Discussion
Everyone always talks about waiting so many miles before booting a car engine but theoretically, how does the timing change if say you have already driven it a good 30 minutes and then 4 hours later you jump back into it.
Surely after a couple of minutes of driving itll get warm enough again to boot it a bit?
Surely you cant drive carefully for the first 5 miles on every journey even if you have used the car already and the ambient temperature is say 15 degrees or so?
I booted mine earlier after 2 minutes of pottering, it had been used on a motorway stint 4 hours prior to it and it was 15 degrees outside. (Although in my case im aware the car has some kind of blanket that keeps the engine warm for longer than a normal car - B58 Engine), but surely most engines will be fine and warm enough.
I feel like i see people booting their engines all the time and having no issues yet it seems a huge concern on online forums to wait a long time before hand. I just dont know what is right these days?
Surely after a couple of minutes of driving itll get warm enough again to boot it a bit?
Surely you cant drive carefully for the first 5 miles on every journey even if you have used the car already and the ambient temperature is say 15 degrees or so?
I booted mine earlier after 2 minutes of pottering, it had been used on a motorway stint 4 hours prior to it and it was 15 degrees outside. (Although in my case im aware the car has some kind of blanket that keeps the engine warm for longer than a normal car - B58 Engine), but surely most engines will be fine and warm enough.
I feel like i see people booting their engines all the time and having no issues yet it seems a huge concern on online forums to wait a long time before hand. I just dont know what is right these days?
xjay1337 said:
So many factors it's impossible to tell.
You have oil temp gauge on the shadow line B58 engined cars. I would suggest checking that
Not on mine, its after 2018 i believe i dont get that luck, well i do but i have to go through menus for about 30 seconds before i get to it. You have oil temp gauge on the shadow line B58 engined cars. I would suggest checking that
I don't think it's worth worrying about.
Booting it when its less than normal operating temperature once in a while isn't going to bother any well serviced modern engine.
Old and poor quality oils are the biggest threat to modern units these days - not the occasional stab when cold. So long as you service it on time with good quality oil it will be fine.
Booting it when its less than normal operating temperature once in a while isn't going to bother any well serviced modern engine.
Old and poor quality oils are the biggest threat to modern units these days - not the occasional stab when cold. So long as you service it on time with good quality oil it will be fine.
hb_fash said:
I don't think it's worth worrying about.
Booting it when its less than normal operating temperature once in a while isn't going to bother any well serviced modern engine.
Old and poor quality oils are the biggest threat to modern units these days - not the occasional stab when cold. So long as you service it on time with good quality oil it will be fine.
You're obviously well-informed. Booting it when its less than normal operating temperature once in a while isn't going to bother any well serviced modern engine.
Old and poor quality oils are the biggest threat to modern units these days - not the occasional stab when cold. So long as you service it on time with good quality oil it will be fine.
Care to share your evidence for those who don't have the benefit of your knowledge.
bigenginesmallcar said:
Everyone always talks about waiting so many miles before booting a car engine but theoretically, how does the timing change if say you have already driven it a good 30 minutes and then 4 hours later you jump back into it.
Surely after a couple of minutes of driving itll get warm enough again to boot it a bit?
Surely you cant drive carefully for the first 5 miles on every journey even if you have used the car already and the ambient temperature is say 15 degrees or so?
I booted mine earlier after 2 minutes of pottering, it had been used on a motorway stint 4 hours prior to it and it was 15 degrees outside. (Although in my case im aware the car has some kind of blanket that keeps the engine warm for longer than a normal car - B58 Engine), but surely most engines will be fine and warm enough.
I feel like i see people booting their engines all the time and having no issues yet it seems a huge concern on online forums to wait a long time before hand. I just dont know what is right these days?
4 hours is a very long time, i would not be surprised if the oil had cooled right down to the outside temperature. I had to take off the rocker cover on my FN2 which is cast iron during that heat wave we had a few years back, after about an hour it was just about bearable to take off but into the 2 hour mark everything in and around the engine including the manifold was cool to touch.Surely after a couple of minutes of driving itll get warm enough again to boot it a bit?
Surely you cant drive carefully for the first 5 miles on every journey even if you have used the car already and the ambient temperature is say 15 degrees or so?
I booted mine earlier after 2 minutes of pottering, it had been used on a motorway stint 4 hours prior to it and it was 15 degrees outside. (Although in my case im aware the car has some kind of blanket that keeps the engine warm for longer than a normal car - B58 Engine), but surely most engines will be fine and warm enough.
I feel like i see people booting their engines all the time and having no issues yet it seems a huge concern on online forums to wait a long time before hand. I just dont know what is right these days?
Personally if my car has been stood more than an hour then i consider the engine to be cold, although i run my car on a slightly thicker oil
TarquinMX5 said:
hb_fash said:
I don't think it's worth worrying about.
Booting it when its less than normal operating temperature once in a while isn't going to bother any well serviced modern engine.
Old and poor quality oils are the biggest threat to modern units these days - not the occasional stab when cold. So long as you service it on time with good quality oil it will be fine.
You're obviously well-informed. Booting it when its less than normal operating temperature once in a while isn't going to bother any well serviced modern engine.
Old and poor quality oils are the biggest threat to modern units these days - not the occasional stab when cold. So long as you service it on time with good quality oil it will be fine.
Care to share your evidence for those who don't have the benefit of your knowledge.
I think i seen a chart before showing that a lot of modern oils for cars, once they reach 30 degrees or so the viscosity is barely any different to when its 100 degrees.
I once worked in the engine testing facility for a large OEM, and the test cycles I saw inflicted far worse abuse on the engines than you'd see in real life.
This included the engine being chilled down to -20C, then started and immediately being given full throttle under load and bouncing off the rev limiter for hours.
Other abuse included repeatedly letting the engine run so slowly under load that it started labouring, then given wide open throttle up to the limiter, and buzzing the engine a couple of thousand RPM over the redline (simulating an accidental down change to a gear too low).
The engines were typically given all of this abuse and more for the equivalent of 150k miles. The engine was then disassembled and tolerances checked. Anything that was out of tolerance was deemed to have failed and the part was re-engineered and tested again.
Working there was enough to convince me that even the most ham-fisted or unsympathetic drivers could do very little to kill an engine though their actions alone. As has already been said though, the thing that really matters is replacing the oil and filters as per the service schedule.
This included the engine being chilled down to -20C, then started and immediately being given full throttle under load and bouncing off the rev limiter for hours.
Other abuse included repeatedly letting the engine run so slowly under load that it started labouring, then given wide open throttle up to the limiter, and buzzing the engine a couple of thousand RPM over the redline (simulating an accidental down change to a gear too low).
The engines were typically given all of this abuse and more for the equivalent of 150k miles. The engine was then disassembled and tolerances checked. Anything that was out of tolerance was deemed to have failed and the part was re-engineered and tested again.
Working there was enough to convince me that even the most ham-fisted or unsympathetic drivers could do very little to kill an engine though their actions alone. As has already been said though, the thing that really matters is replacing the oil and filters as per the service schedule.
TarquinMX5 said:
hb_fash said:
I don't think it's worth worrying about.
Booting it when its less than normal operating temperature once in a while isn't going to bother any well serviced modern engine.
Old and poor quality oils are the biggest threat to modern units these days - not the occasional stab when cold. So long as you service it on time with good quality oil it will be fine.
You're obviously well-informed. Booting it when its less than normal operating temperature once in a while isn't going to bother any well serviced modern engine.
Old and poor quality oils are the biggest threat to modern units these days - not the occasional stab when cold. So long as you service it on time with good quality oil it will be fine.
Care to share your evidence for those who don't have the benefit of your knowledge.
Current ship's engines are 2016 model Volvo Penta D13's - near identical in build and operation to the VW PD diesel engines - just on a much bigger scale.
These engines go from cold to 75-80% load in 20 seconds from the starter turning every day of their lives (excluding dry dock periods of roughly 2 weeks).
Every 500 hrs they are serviced and a sample of the old oil is sent for analysis - in my 5 years aboard as Engineer I have never seen a bad sample returned.
Proof enough for me that modern engines are far more robust than we think.
Whilst my situation is different and I will make sure mine is up to temp before driving it hard (it is the infamous but brilliant S85 V10 after all), I do think most modern engines will be fine as said above provided the right oils are used and changed regularly.
However, I'm not so sure that the long intervals of over 10k miles and hard running / labouring engines when cold is going to keep an engine in the best health much beyond the warranty period. 1st owners won't have a problem, but get 10 years down the line and it may not be so peachy.
However, I'm not so sure that the long intervals of over 10k miles and hard running / labouring engines when cold is going to keep an engine in the best health much beyond the warranty period. 1st owners won't have a problem, but get 10 years down the line and it may not be so peachy.
hb_fash said:
Marine Engineer for the UK's largest ferry operator.
Current ship's engines are 2016 model Volvo Penta D13's - near identical in build and operation to the VW PD diesel engines - just on a much bigger scale.
These engines go from cold to 75-80% load in 20 seconds from the starter turning every day of their lives (excluding dry dock periods of roughly 2 weeks).
Every 500 hrs they are serviced and a sample of the old oil is sent for analysis - in my 5 years aboard as Engineer I have never seen a bad sample returned.
Proof enough for me that modern engines are far more robust than we think.
interesting.Current ship's engines are 2016 model Volvo Penta D13's - near identical in build and operation to the VW PD diesel engines - just on a much bigger scale.
These engines go from cold to 75-80% load in 20 seconds from the starter turning every day of their lives (excluding dry dock periods of roughly 2 weeks).
Every 500 hrs they are serviced and a sample of the old oil is sent for analysis - in my 5 years aboard as Engineer I have never seen a bad sample returned.
Proof enough for me that modern engines are far more robust than we think.
when is the oil changed?
given space and packaging is not so much of a premium, i wonder if these huge engines also come with humungous pumps and galleys to ensure full uncompromised lubrication. car engines might be a little tighter?
i agree though, a modern engine is unlikely to fail if it has oil. it'll be ancillaries that die first.
I think I repeat this story every time this subject comes up:
Bro-in-law used to live in a valley. His route out was to pull out on to the main road outside the house and go up a 1.5 mile fairly steep hill. In the case of the 2CV and the early Micra that he had, this meant full-throttle, 3rd gear to the top of the hill from stone cold, every day. The 2CV was running fine after 100k miles, the Micra was given to his son with 160k miles still going perfectly.
Ergo - driving hard from stone cold matters not one jot for an ordinary engine.
Bro-in-law used to live in a valley. His route out was to pull out on to the main road outside the house and go up a 1.5 mile fairly steep hill. In the case of the 2CV and the early Micra that he had, this meant full-throttle, 3rd gear to the top of the hill from stone cold, every day. The 2CV was running fine after 100k miles, the Micra was given to his son with 160k miles still going perfectly.
Ergo - driving hard from stone cold matters not one jot for an ordinary engine.
CABC said:
hb_fash said:
Marine Engineer for the UK's largest ferry operator.
Current ship's engines are 2016 model Volvo Penta D13's - near identical in build and operation to the VW PD diesel engines - just on a much bigger scale.
These engines go from cold to 75-80% load in 20 seconds from the starter turning every day of their lives (excluding dry dock periods of roughly 2 weeks).
Every 500 hrs they are serviced and a sample of the old oil is sent for analysis - in my 5 years aboard as Engineer I have never seen a bad sample returned.
Proof enough for me that modern engines are far more robust than we think.
interesting.Current ship's engines are 2016 model Volvo Penta D13's - near identical in build and operation to the VW PD diesel engines - just on a much bigger scale.
These engines go from cold to 75-80% load in 20 seconds from the starter turning every day of their lives (excluding dry dock periods of roughly 2 weeks).
Every 500 hrs they are serviced and a sample of the old oil is sent for analysis - in my 5 years aboard as Engineer I have never seen a bad sample returned.
Proof enough for me that modern engines are far more robust than we think.
when is the oil changed?
given space and packaging is not so much of a premium, i wonder if these huge engines also come with humungous pumps and galleys to ensure full uncompromised lubrication. car engines might be a little tighter?
i agree though, a modern engine is unlikely to fail if it has oil. it'll be ancillaries that die first.
The D13's are straight 6 engines 12.8L in capacity. Not too far away from Volvo's truck engines.
Personally with my cars for the sake of mechanical sympathy; start engine, let idle for 10 to 15 seconds to let oil circulate and keep to the bottom half of the tach for the first 10 minutes of driving.
However I have no doubt that it can (and that some do) go from cold to full bore without any concern.
legless said:
I once worked in the engine testing facility for a large OEM, and the test cycles I saw inflicted far worse abuse on the engines than you'd see in real life.
This included the engine being chilled down to -20C, then started and immediately being given full throttle under load and bouncing off the rev limiter for hours.
Other abuse included repeatedly letting the engine run so slowly under load that it started labouring, then given wide open throttle up to the limiter, and buzzing the engine a couple of thousand RPM over the redline (simulating an accidental down change to a gear too low).
The engines were typically given all of this abuse and more for the equivalent of 150k miles. The engine was then disassembled and tolerances checked. Anything that was out of tolerance was deemed to have failed and the part was re-engineered and tested again.
Working there was enough to convince me that even the most ham-fisted or unsympathetic drivers could do very little to kill an engine though their actions alone. As has already been said though, the thing that really matters is replacing the oil and filters as per the service schedule.
I assume you definitely did NOT work for Porsche A.G. than. As almost any water cooled engine they produced between 2000-2008 failed prematurely for loads of different reasons...This included the engine being chilled down to -20C, then started and immediately being given full throttle under load and bouncing off the rev limiter for hours.
Other abuse included repeatedly letting the engine run so slowly under load that it started labouring, then given wide open throttle up to the limiter, and buzzing the engine a couple of thousand RPM over the redline (simulating an accidental down change to a gear too low).
The engines were typically given all of this abuse and more for the equivalent of 150k miles. The engine was then disassembled and tolerances checked. Anything that was out of tolerance was deemed to have failed and the part was re-engineered and tested again.
Working there was enough to convince me that even the most ham-fisted or unsympathetic drivers could do very little to kill an engine though their actions alone. As has already been said though, the thing that really matters is replacing the oil and filters as per the service schedule.
ooid said:
I assume you definitely did NOT work for Porsche A.G. than. As almost any water cooled engine they produced between 2000-2008 failed prematurely for loads of different reasons...
Porsche did seem to have a particularly difficult time trying to get the watercooled engines up to scratch. They were probably heavily compromised because of their layout and location in the car.bigenginesmallcar said:
xjay1337 said:
So many factors it's impossible to tell.
You have oil temp gauge on the shadow line B58 engined cars. I would suggest checking that
Not on mine, its after 2018 i believe i dont get that luck, well i do but i have to go through menus for about 30 seconds before i get to it. You have oil temp gauge on the shadow line B58 engined cars. I would suggest checking that
It's really not a concern with modern engines so long as you show a bit of mechanical sympathy (although the 2CV story might prove otherwise!) and keep to regular oil changes with the correct oil for the engine. If you are really worried then I guess a block warmer/preheated would be the logical choice.
My neighbour warms up his VXR Astra for 10 minutes every time he drives it (he told me as much), and every time I think of two things... It's taking longer to get warm than if it was under load, and did the owner(s) in its first 10 years worry so much? Glad to see someone taking pride in looking after their car but it seems counterproductive.
legless said:
This included the engine being chilled down to -20C, then started and immediately being given full throttle under load and bouncing off the rev limiter for hours.
Other abuse included repeatedly letting the engine run so slowly under load that it started labouring, then given wide open throttle up to the limiter, and buzzing the engine a couple of thousand RPM over the redline (simulating an accidental down change to a gear too low).
Very interesting.Other abuse included repeatedly letting the engine run so slowly under load that it started labouring, then given wide open throttle up to the limiter, and buzzing the engine a couple of thousand RPM over the redline (simulating an accidental down change to a gear too low).
Obviously such procedures are done in proper facilities with professional kit and all that. But I have to ask: Was it ever fun to do these things? Any amusing anecdotes?
I mean: a much younger me would have jumped at the chance to test an engine beyond all reasonable parameters.
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