Neighbourly Issues

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romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
We're having our garden done and since planning the works have kept our behind-neighbour informed as for ease of access the guys doing the job wanted to make a delivery over our rear fence. He verbally agreed to it and was easy going until this weekend. I texted him at the weekend to give him the heads-up that work was starting today (Monday) and could the guys doing the work liaise with him about when they needed access.

He replied to say "I'm sure you said they'd try to get the machine through your side gate so only if they can't do that will I give access over my property. If that is the case it'll only be for that brief moment as last time they did all the fence work from this side so that definitely won't be happening this time." and this morning has refused all access at all over our rear fence.

A few months ago we replaced our fences, again keeping him informed, and this is the first time he has ever mentioned what they did as being problematic. I'm in the office but asked my partner to go over and reason with him on the basis that I'm less likely to keep my cool. Our sideways neighbour has a gate from their garden onto his drive (red circle) which is less than a metre from the panel we need removing (blue circle).



When my partner pointed this out, his reply was "they have a legal right over my property. You don't. When you did your fences I was on holiday and you snuck onto my driveway and disturbed me because my security camera kept sending me notifications". Meanwhile my inbox...



So my question really is what would you do? Our landscapers are sucking their teeth and making very expensive noises about the extra effort, and I'm not sure if there's any other way to persuade him. I'm quite disappointed as it feels like all neighbourly friendliness has been removed by him despite our best efforts.

My suggestions of repainting the fence without telling him to move his car have been rebuffed by my partner....

ETA: Partner has even offered to have his driveway jet washed at the end of the works to clear up any dirt, but this was refused. Apparently his issue is that the delivery truck might make his driveway sink if it's too heavy. Additional cost is circa £800 for another day and a half labour carrying everything around the long way. furious

Edited by romeogolf on Monday 6th July 10:23

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Do we take it that the only right of way into your back garden is through your house or parachuting in?
Is £800 to handball bulk materials through your house?
A claim for damage to the neighbour's drive might be more than £800.
It might be as well to screen the car when painting your fence panel. Is it difficult to remove it, paint it and then replace?

Joe M

665 posts

244 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
If the sideways neighbour has a legal right to access, check your deeds. You might have the same..

paulrockliffe

15,639 posts

226 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Get your sideways neighbour to receive your delivery, then take a side panel out to get it in.

That said, neither of you will have a right of access that allows you to put a lorry on that drive or for a third party to carry materials over the drive. Unlikely the right would extend to the home owner carrying in materials either, though perhaps access for maintenance could be stretched.

What do your deeds say? What does the neighbour's deeds say? You can get them from the Land Registry for £3.

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
TA14 said:
Do we take it that the only right of way into your back garden is through your house or parachuting in?
Is £800 to handball bulk materials through your house?
A claim for damage to the neighbour's drive might be more than £800.
It might be as well to screen the car when painting your fence panel. Is it difficult to remove it, paint it and then replace?
We have a narrow side gate which isn't large enough for the digger to fit through, so the additional cost is for doing the work by hand and carrying any deliveries through the side rather than having them deposited directly into the garden.

The comment about the car was that we've always been neighbourly and when painting the fence have told our neighbour so he could move his car just in case of splashes. I (jokingly....) suggested painting it again without notice to spite him.

PhilboSE

4,323 posts

225 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
You either have the right to demand access, or you need to ask a favour.

If you have the right of access (check your deeds) then you don't have the right to cause him any damage. So if the delivery lorry was to cause any claimable issues by your neighbour then he could come after you for financial redress, and that could easily be more than £800 if, for example, he later claimed that the driveway sank through the weight of the lorry. Remember the lorry will deploy outriggers which will give much more of a point load compared with the tyres.

If you need to ask him a favour, then you would need to be as nice as pie about it, rather than assuming he should go along with it just because the alternative would inconvenience you. He might just have taken umbrage at the fact that your past works might seem that you assume a right of access you don't have. You might just need to butter him up to make him feel good about himself and being generous with the use of his drive for your convenience.

In that situation, personally I would remind him of the actual history of previous arrangements, but then just say that as he's unwilling to grant access you will stand the extra cost and inconvenience of the alternative. If he's a nice guy having a bad day, then that might just make him recant but if he's a dick he won't grant you access anyway and at least then you know he's a dick ;-)

Edited by PhilboSE on Monday 6th July 11:26

The Moose

22,821 posts

208 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Just pay the £800.

It’s not that much and having done more construction projects than I care to remember, there’ll be something done that causes you grief in the future. Whether it’s dropped soil on his drive or a fag-end from a laborer. Something will be a problem.

Bill

52,485 posts

254 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
PhilboSE said:
In that situation, personally I would remind him of the actual history of previous arrangements, but then just say that as he's unwilling to grant access you will stand the extra cost and inconvenience of the alternative. If he's a nice guy having a bad day, then that might just make him recant but if he's a dick he won't grant you access anyway and at least then you know he's a dick ;-)
This. Apologise with a bottle of wine for the inconvenience you caused last time, but politely remind him he knew it was going to happen when he was away and ask him what's changed.

Half an hour/a bottle of plonk/a bit of grovelling seems a small price Vs £800.

Jakg

3,451 posts

167 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Devils advocate:

There's lots of threads online about someone being nice and letting tradesperson use their part of their property while working on a neighbours property, but when when it goes wrong and theres damage left, the neighbour says talk the tradesperson and the tradespersons not interested as they've been paid and gone.

Especially if you knew your driveway paving was a bit iffy and you had visions of some massive tipper parking up on it - a lot of bulk deliveries are kerbside only for this reason.

BobSaunders

3,028 posts

154 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Are you sure that it's all his driveway? It looks to be only the bit where the car is parked in the image? Outside of his parking space it appears to be public land.

Remove the fence panels and scoot this 'machine' through that. If he's not willing to move his car, then he's a d**k, and there is wider issues a foot. There appears to be enough room to scoot around it.

Gareth79

7,628 posts

245 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
I'd be surprised if that neighbour has a right of access but the OP doesn't - they all look fairly new houses so it may have been an informal arrangement in the past that the driveway neighbour could simply revoke.

Mr Pointy

11,149 posts

158 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
BobSaunders said:
Are you sure that it's all his driveway? It looks to be only the bit where the car is parked in the image? Outside of his parking space it appears to be public land.

Remove the fence panels and scoot this 'machine' through that. If he's not willing to move his car, then he's a d**k, and there is wider issues a foot. There appears to be enough room to scoot around it.
It's that sort of perceived attitude that's pissed the neighbour off already & hence no second chance for the OP.

OP; if you want to be a dick after all this is done you might want to enquire of your neighbour how far, if at all, his CCTV coverage extends outside his property. For now, can't you take out a panel next to the small side gate?

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
BobSaunders said:
Are you sure that it's all his driveway? It looks to be only the bit where the car is parked in the image? Outside of his parking space it appears to be public land.

Remove the fence panels and scoot this 'machine' through that. If he's not willing to move his car, then he's a d**k, and there is wider issues a foot. There appears to be enough room to scoot around it.
From above, his driveway/our garden marked out:



We've previously checked land records for this and it's definitely his land. He's even gone so far as to paint a white line over the end to make sure we all know...

I don't want to be a d*ck and we'd chatted to him several times about this before, so today's change of attitude is a real 180. With all other works done (removing a tree, replacing the fence, painting the fence) we've let him know well in advance.

Our first encounter with him, the day after we moved in, was him popping his head over the fence while we were in the garden and proceeding to tell us about all the disagreements he's had with various other neighbours so we went above-and-beyond to be friendly and avoid being in his bad books. Alas no luck, it seems!

Mr Pointy said:
It's that sort of perceived attitude that's pissed the neighbour off already & hence no second chance for the OP.

OP; if you want to be a dick after all this is done you might want to enquire of your neighbour how far, if at all, his CCTV coverage extends outside his property. For now, can't you take out a panel next to the small side gate?
Our side gate is adjacent to next door's sidegate with a concrete post between the two, so nothing to be removed there, unfortunately.

superlightr

12,842 posts

262 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
romeogolf said:
We're having our garden done and since planning the works have kept our behind-neighbour informed as for ease of access the guys doing the job wanted to make a delivery over our rear fence. He verbally agreed to it and was easy going until this weekend. I texted him at the weekend to give him the heads-up that work was starting today (Monday) and could the guys doing the work liaise with him about when they needed access.

He replied to say "I'm sure you said they'd try to get the machine through your side gate so only if they can't do that will I give access over my property. If that is the case it'll only be for that brief moment as last time they did all the fence work from this side so that definitely won't be happening this time." and this morning has refused all access at all over our rear fence.

A few months ago we replaced our fences, again keeping him informed, and this is the first time he has ever mentioned what they did as being problematic. I'm in the office but asked my partner to go over and reason with him on the basis that I'm less likely to keep my cool. Our sideways neighbour has a gate from their garden onto his drive (red circle) which is less than a metre from the panel we need removing (blue circle).



When my partner pointed this out, his reply was "they have a legal right over my property. You don't. When you did your fences I was on holiday and you snuck onto my driveway and disturbed me because my security camera kept sending me notifications". Meanwhile my inbox...



So my question really is what would you do? Our landscapers are sucking their teeth and making very expensive noises about the extra effort, and I'm not sure if there's any other way to persuade him. I'm quite disappointed as it feels like all neighbourly friendliness has been removed by him despite our best efforts.

My suggestions of repainting the fence without telling him to move his car have been rebuffed by my partner....

ETA: Partner has even offered to have his driveway jet washed at the end of the works to clear up any dirt, but this was refused. Apparently his issue is that the delivery truck might make his driveway sink if it's too heavy. Additional cost is circa £800 for another day and a half labour carrying everything around the long way. furious

Edited by romeogolf on Monday 6th July 10:23
?? eh?

Is this the correct summary?

You have a rear gate to your garden.

Are you saying that your contractor wants to park their lorry on your neighbours parking space to use a crane /host to move the materiel into your Garden?

Your neighbour doesn't want the lorry on his property.

If the contractors have to carry the materials it will cost an extra £800?

bristolbaron

4,757 posts

211 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
I’d be having a chat with the guy, explaining that the additional cost is £800 and you’re happy to give him £400 for access?

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
superlightr said:
?? eh?

Is this the correct summary?

You have a rear gate to your garden.

Are you saying that your contractor wants to park their lorry on your neighbours parking space to use a crane /host to move the materiel into your Garden?

Your neighbour doesn't want the lorry on his property.

If the contractors have to carry the materials it will cost an extra £800?
It's the summary which excludes the conversations we've had with said neighbour about agreeing access via our rear fence/his drive, but yes.


Edited by romeogolf on Monday 6th July 12:21

romeogolf

Original Poster:

2,056 posts

118 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
bristolbaron said:
I’d be having a chat with the guy, explaining that the additional cost is £800 and you’re happy to give him £400 for access?
I suggested this to the other half just now who replied with this photo. He's moved his car halfway down the drive just in case we dare think about using it for access anyway.



Ultimately I don't think he's the type to be reasoned with, sadly and I can see why he's fallen out with so many other neighbours. We'll have to suck up the £800 and hope we don't have any reason to need a favour from him in future. Some neighbours just aren't very neighbourly!

DanL

6,180 posts

264 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Lateral thinking - you state your neighbour with the gate has right of access. Could you go via their gate and a side panel from the fence, rather than an end panel?

T1547

1,091 posts

133 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
bristolbaron said:
I’d be having a chat with the guy, explaining that the additional cost is £800 and you’re happy to give him £400 for access?
This (although I'd be less generous!). Why not offer him £150 for permitting the access - nice sweetener for him and saves you £650?

Camoradi

4,285 posts

255 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
bristolbaron said:
I’d be having a chat with the guy, explaining that the additional cost is £800 and you’re happy to give him £400 for access?
My thoughts exactly..

Except I'd tell him the extra cost is £400 and he can have it all, otherwise he'll be looking for £600 hehe