RE: How to survive a pandemic - and save a V12
Discussion
Buster73 said:
cobraBLACK said:
Is anyone else uncomfortable that a £165k runaround is selling so well whilst homeless people freeze to death and so many people live in poverty and live such a terrible life?
How uncomfortable were you typing that out on a computer/ tablet / phone from the comfort of a centrally heated home that you are able to purchase or rent when so many people live such a terrible life ?It's not going to be a popular opinion here on PistonHeads, but there is something wrong with a society that can support some people throwing away 6-figure sums on toys that have no practical purpose, while others struggle to survive.
We're going backwards as a society: at least the Victorians had the decency to place some value and prestige upon philanthropy.
cobraBLACK said:
I'm not talking about communism. I'm talking about limiting excessive capitalism. I've got no problem with people earning money and buying what they want - to a limit. I'm talking about the greater sense of humanity. How the top x% have so much wealth but we still have so many people living in poor conditions. The fact that I have central heating is irrelevant and the sort of bs you get in tabloids - the whataboutery that deflects attention from the issue.
Buying an expensive car is what you want millionaires to be doing. There's an environmental case to be made against it, but from an economics POV, a large luxury spend keeps a factory open, engineers developing and markets expanding. Luxury products have high profit margins and allow the higher salaries required to keep manufacturing jobs in mature markets like Europe. VW Up's won't cut it.There may be better things they could do with their money than blow it on a depreciating asset, but consumerism is what makes the economy grow. If everyone stopped buying clothes when they stopped growing out of their last sackcloth, we'd all be poorer.
If your point is why do we have so many people that can afford a Lambo MPV, that will be a mixture of luck, skill, judgement, hard work and corruption. Some of which are to be encouraged and some not.
Equus said:
For what it's worth, yes, I'm with you, cobraBLACK. And yes, I'm somewhat uncomfortable that I'm sitting here in my centrally heated home typing on my computer while other people live in abject poverty too.
It's not going to be a popular opinion here on PistonHeads, but there is something wrong with a society that can support some people throwing away 6-figure sums on toys that have no practical purpose, while others struggle to survive.
We're going backwards as a society: at least the Victorians had the decency to place some value and prestige upon philanthropy.
If someone has earned enough to buy a £165k car , they must have contributed a lot more in income tax over the years than those who aren’t in that position, not withstanding the VAT element of the purchase price is close to £30 k.It's not going to be a popular opinion here on PistonHeads, but there is something wrong with a society that can support some people throwing away 6-figure sums on toys that have no practical purpose, while others struggle to survive.
We're going backwards as a society: at least the Victorians had the decency to place some value and prestige upon philanthropy.
We should be encouraging people to spend their wealth to increase tax revenues.
cobraBLACK said:
Weekendrebuild said:
Not really, if you have worked hard and purchased it yourself you deserve it . To many lazy people in this world.
It would be nice if life was that simple - you get what you deserve - but people are born into poverty (or money - one of the useless idiots is POTUS) and struggle to get out without resorting to crime or suffer from mental illness. But we're happy for this to continue? The majority of people spend most of their income on mortgage/rent and food with little else to save so finance is a constant worry. Yet capitalism unchecked lets so many around the world have ludicrous amounts of money that they may or may not have earned - and that's okay?Homelessness is not caused by a few people buying expensive stuff, not would it be cured by taxing them more. With no reward people wouldn't take risks and build the companies that make the money.
Buster73 said:
We should be encouraging people to spend their wealth to increase tax revenues.
But if that wealth were more evenly distributed, it would still be spent... just that more people would get the direct benefit of it.Nobody is advocating outright communism, but it seems difficult to deny that the world has a problem with wealth distribution
Equus said:
Buster73 said:
We should be encouraging people to spend their wealth to increase tax revenues.
But if that wealth were more evenly distributed, it would still be spent... just that more people would get the direct benefit of it.Nobody is advocating outright communism, but it seems difficult to deny that the world has a problem with wealth distribution
cobraBLACK said:
Is anyone else uncomfortable that a £165k runaround is selling so well whilst homeless people freeze to death and so many people live in poverty and live such a terrible life?
What a completely strange way to open up commentary on an article about a supercar manufacturer's relative financial health, on a car forum.
Lambos aren't for me, less so SUVs, but good for Lamborghini if they are making a success of a product line-up that is bucking the Covid economic downward trend.
98elise said:
Who is going to create the wealth to enable it to be redistributed? If there is no reward who it going to take the risks?
As I said, nobody is advocating total communism. There can still be reward, without promoting such large differentials.FWIIW, I have only known one self-made billionaire on a close enough personal basis to discuss such matters. He told me that the money is actually meaningless except as metric by which to measure his and his companies' success - success was the challenge and the reward in itself. He didn't drive a Lamborghini (or anything remotely so ostentatious).
Equus said:
FWIIW, I have only known one self-made billionaire on a close enough personal basis to discuss such matters. He told me that the money is actually meaningless except as metric by which to measure his and his companies' success - success was the challenge and the reward in itself. He didn't drive a Lamborghini (or anything remotely so ostentatious).
Completely meaningless statement.Argleton said:
Completely meaningless statement.
Is it?I've also known quite a few self-made millionaires, and they all say or demonstrate pretty much the same thing.
The consistent difference between them and us (well, me, anyway) is that having reached a certain level of wealth beyond which it really doesn't make any more difference to your lifestyle, I'd probably sit back and enjoy it. They, on the other hand, keep striving for further success (and because that means they are continuing to work bloody hard, that means that they actually tend to live fairly modest lifestyles - they don't have the time for anything else).
The people who tend to splurge enormous sums on pointless trinkets are more often those who've had it handed to them on a plate.
Equus said:
Argleton said:
Completely meaningless statement.
Is it?I've also known quite a few self-made millionaires, and they all say or demonstrate pretty much the same thing.
The consistent difference between them and us (well, me, anyway) is that having reached a certain level of wealth beyond which it really doesn't make any more difference to your lifestyle, I'd probably sit back and enjoy it. They, on the other hand, keep striving for further success (and because that means they are continuing to work bloody hard, that means that they actually tend to live fairly modest lifestyles - they don't have the time for anything else).
The people who tend to splurge enormous sums on pointless trinkets are more often those who've had it handed to them on a plate.
Keep going.
Gameface said:
Pointless trinkets being nice cars?
Supercars/hypercars, yes.The sort of cars that are f
k all use for anything except posing in, basically.The aforementioned billionaire ran stuff like Range Rovers and Mercedes S-class; 'nice cars', certainly but practical, useable tools that provided him with discreet and comfortable transport.
My brother, who runs a limousine business in London that specialises in business and diplomatic work, has driven pretty much everyone up to and including Bill Gates... and notes the same thing: real money and power tends to be discreet about it.
Equus said:
Argleton said:
Another completely meaningless statement.
How very PistonHeads.Just because it doesn't accord to your personal perspective of the world doesn't mean that it's meaningless, no matter how many times you repeat the phrase.
Seriously, you're embarrassing yourself now. Well, you've went beyond that a while back.
Tell me, what 'should' billionaires and multimillionaire be driving so they can accord to your cap on spending. I'm sure they're all dying to know.
Argleton said:
As opposed to your perspective of what? Straw poll of 4 people?
Rather more than that. I've spent my entire career servicing property development. It won't surprise even you to discover that there are quite a few self-made millionaires among their number.And on what experience are you basing your own inestimably wise contribution to the discussion?
Argleton said:
Seriously, you're embarrassing yourself now.
And you're not?Equus said:
Gameface said:
Pointless trinkets being nice cars?
Supercars/hypercars, yes.The sort of cars that are f
k all use for anything except posing in, basically.The aforementioned billionaire ran stuff like Range Rovers and Mercedes S-class; 'nice cars', certainly but practical, useable tools that provided him with discreet and comfortable transport.
My brother, who runs a limousine business in London that specialises in business and diplomatic work, has driven pretty much everyone up to and including Bill Gates... and notes the same thing: real money and power tends to be discreet about it.
Your argument is based on one person you know slightly. Hardly a conclusive sample.
You're other proof being your brother drove Bill Gates somewhere
Someone who wouldn't be a petrol head if he had £100 in the bank or £100 million.Your brother asks his exclusive clients what they drive does he? I doubt that. Chauffeurs are generally to be seen but not heard. They certainly don't ask personal questions of strangers.
Plenty of flash millionaires/billionaires. The huge number of supercar and hypercar sales these days is proof enough of that. Then there's all the special commissions and one offs that Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani, and Koenigsegg provide to appease the desire for exclusivity.
Real money is discreet you say? Yeah those helicopters, private jets and yachts just blend into the background...
Places like Monaco are really subtle and discreet too aren't they...
On my first ever holiday abroad as a kid, we stopped in Puerto Banus. I saw my first ever Lamborghini. A red Countach. It fostered a love of the brand and I vowed one day I'd own one.
That's what it's about for me. Fulfilling a childhood dream.
Money buys you freedom. How you express that is down to the individual.
You might not like supercars but taking the stance you are, doesn't give you any moral high ground. It just makes you like you're on your wrong website.
Edited by Gameface on Sunday 12th July 12:03
Gameface said:
On my first ever holiday abroad as a kid, we stopped in Puerto Banus. I saw my first ever Lamborghini. A red Countach. It fostered a love of the brand and I vowed one day I'd own one.
That's what it's about for me. Fulfilling a childhood dream.
Well done you (and I mean that). My childhood motoring dream was rather more modest (a Lotus Elan Sprint), and I've been there, done that too.That's what it's about for me. Fulfilling a childhood dream.
What next? Now that you have your Lamborghini, have you lost all drive to succeed further?
My point is that the drive to succeed doesn't depend on the ability to become hyper-rich, and wouldn't evaporate if there was a more modest differential between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. Money isn't even the primary driver for a lot of people.
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