RE: Jaguar E-Type V8 | The Brave Pill

RE: Jaguar E-Type V8 | The Brave Pill

Saturday 11th July 2020

Jaguar E-Type V8 | The Brave Pill

This week a case of right car, wrong engine



Tastes change in the classic market, a point ably made by what is our oldest Brave Pill to date, this gleaming 1968 Jaguar E-Type. When launched in 1961 the E-Type was a hugely significant car with gorgeous looks, innovative tech and performance that made it faster than almost anything else. It frequently features at the sharp end of lists of the greatest cars of all time, and any story written about it now requires both a reverential tone and repetition of both the fact a (very) carefully fettled version managed 150mph and Enzo Ferrari's line about it being the most beautiful car in the world.

What's less well remembered these days is that the critical glory days didn't last for long, and were over well before the car's long life came to an end. For much of its existence the E-Type struggled to find buyers, something that resulted in limited funds being released for development. The most obvious innovation was the arrival of V12 power in 1971, but other updates were never enough to stop the E-Type falling increasingly far from the standards set by more modern alternatives. As the U.S.'s Road & Track magazine put it after testing a V12 powered series 3, "what is such a magnificent engine doing in such an outdated body?"

The E-Type also suffered from the same problems that beset most of the rest of the British car industry at the time. Build quality had never been particularly robust, something that Jaguar's absorption into British Leyland did nothing to improve, and in the U.S. the E-Type's bork-prone electrical system was soon the butt of dozens of jokes. (A typical example: Why do the British drink warm beer? Because Lucas make their fridges.) It suffered again in the oil crisis, with the low-teen thirst of the V12 engine particularly unsuited for the era of rocketing fuel prices, and by the end it had been lumbered with the further indignity of chunky 'impact bumpers' to meet U.S. crash tests.


Back home in the UK the E-Type fell quickly into bangerdom, and were soon being subjected to the sort of low-grade modifications and 'improvement' that inevitably befall the cheap and the fast. By the 'eighties it wasn't unusual to see E-Types with vast CB aerials, ill-advised bodykits or even the indignity of go-faster stripes or flame decals. Nor was it uncommon to find them tottering in piles in the era's scrapyards when they rotted out or encountered sufficiently expensive problems.

Major mechanical changes were less common, especially as the E-Type became cheap enough to run into the ground, but they weren't unknown. The idea of removing an original DOHC 'XK' straight six to replace it with a Ford V8 might sound like heresy to modern ears, when originality is prized above pretty much anything else, but for a long time nobody would have batted an eyelid at such a powerplant transplant in a cheap, old car. Especially not one that likely also increased performance, like the one given to this week's Pill: a U.S. market 'Series 1.5' coupe that, at some point during its long life in the 'States, had its 4.2-litre XK swapped for a 5.0-litre V8 from a Cobra.

Our Pill looks almost spot-on for a middle era E-Type 2+2 - and could be parked outside a half-timbered pub without attracting any undue comment beyond that from anyone noticing the bumpier than normal bonnet bump presumably required to accommodate the new powerplant. But it will sound completely wrong, doubtless louder and angrier than the sometimes wuffly, sometimes rorty noise of the triple-carb'd XK.

Some will see a perverse appeal in the trolling ability offered by such a Frankencar - both in terms of incongruous V8 noises and what will probably be an amusing turn of pace; while beautiful to drive the standard six-cylinder E-Type won't feel particularly rapid to anyone used to more recent sportscars. But our vendor admits that the most rational thing to do would be to return the car to something closer to originality, even if it will never have the sort of 'numbers matching' provenance that gets Concours judges sticking on rosettes.


It's also possible, as the advert text suggests, that the V8 may be worth a fair chunk in its ownright. Mild research suggests that being a 302 cubic inch Ford V8 it was fitted to the 1980s-era AutoKraft 'continuation' Cobra. That seems more likely than it having been donated from an early Shelby Cobra, which would have been worth more than the E-Type at any point in their shared history. But given the number of Cobras and 'Nobras' out there it seems likely there would be some interest in it - although whether it would raise enough cash to purchase a period appropriate 4.2-litre XK is another matter. Another possibility, if a less enticing one for most of us, would be converting the Jag to an electric powertrain like Jaguar's own E-Type Zero project.

Our Pill was originally sold in the U.S. and is a left-hooker, returning to the UK in 2003 to be "dry stored in a London museum" according to the vendor. It is complete and running and has only recently been registered for road use, passing what seems to have been its first and only MOT in June 2018 with no advisories (it's old enough not to require another.) More importantly is the promise that it's rust free and always has been, something that's very rare for any E-Type that spent its youth on this side of the Atlantic. It's not cosmetically perfect, the rubber surround of the rear screen seems to be perished - and some will be unable to see beyond Himalayan profile of the non-standard bonnet. But it certainly doesn't look like the cheapest running E-Type in the UK, which it seems to be; outright restoration projects are often advertised for the same or even more.

Cars with radical mechanical alterations rarely find much love among Brave Pill commenters, but this E-Type can hardly be blamed for having received a transplant that probably saved it from the scrapyard when it was originally carried out. It's not the real deal, but it's definitely not a bad deal.


See the original advert here


Author
Discussion

Mike 83

Original Poster:

50 posts

59 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
I want to like it but its like a toad in the hole with a cheese burger in the middle just don't seem right sorry

John Locke

1,142 posts

51 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
There's nothing wrong with such a transplant, especially into the ugly and unloved Series 1.5 2 + 2 with the less free revving 4.2 engine. The car featured would have struggled past 130 mph on its original engine.

As is frequently the case in PH pieces though, drivel such as:
"a (very) carefully fettled version managed 150mph" is presented as fact.

Any 1961 -1964 3.8 E-Type would walk past 150 mph on 3 of the 4 available final drive ratios.

sifocus

87 posts

173 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
I think it’s great. The car seems rust free. Great as it is or even better with an engine swap back to Jag.

Gus265

264 posts

132 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Wow that is a food for thought car. It all comes down to the condition of the body and if you know what you are doing. If the body is as good as it looks (perfect shut lines and no rust) then this is a perfect project car but even after you have put the right engine back in it and fixed the bonnet, it’s never going to be worth more than £45-50k because it’s a 2+2 US import non-matching numbers lhd. You also need to find an E-type spec 4.2 engine which I believe is different in the oil pan, carbs etc to the no doubt numerous XJ 4.2s out there. You are going to need a gearbox aswell and will have to sort out the engine and gearbox mounting issues on installing that V8.

So if you can get the car for £30k, sell the V8 engine and box for a decent price (shame no photos ), fit a proper 4.2, get someone to help fix the bonnet, convert to RHD, go through rest of car (suspension, brakes and wheels), are capable enough to do it from home to save on labour cost, you could actually have a cracking car which will be worth what you have put in. Hopefully this suits someone out there - not me unfortunately as I am useless in the garage.

But buy it and send off to a specialist to put right and it will be a money pit never worth what you have paid out I’m afraid.

For those of you who want to keep it as is, good luck as otherwise it is a monstrosity! I do get why this used to happen but I couldn’t drive it.

Good luck someone!


FlukePlay

937 posts

144 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
I have always struggled to appreciate the styling of the fixed head version, it's not beautiful by any means. The convertible is stunning though. This Pill is not for me.

A1VDY

3,575 posts

126 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
No pictures of the engine bay, likely a dogs dinner.
Little point in this type of conversion as high speed in these is hardly confidence inspiring. My father bought a 62 flat floor 3.8 e type in 1980 for £2250 which I now have. Still in its original paint and only 65k miles it's a little scabby around the edges and has been off the road for three years. Mechanically it's perfect but anything over 100mph wasn't particularly great and can only imagine what this particular example would be like.
£32k is far too much for this non original car. Returning it to original would cost £000's especially with the butchered bonnet. £15k is more realistic..

rix

2,776 posts

189 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
I like it, seeing as it's already been hacked around and the engine might be worth something, surely there is a good case for whipping it out and 'popping' a modern LS lump in for top trolling ability...

Excuse my total lack of e type identification skills but could it be this one with some of the nastier additions now removed?

https://youtu.be/pqi4ayKszD4

And/or most certainly this one...
https://youtu.be/onWDBhtAnd0

Edited by rix on Saturday 11th July 06:57


Edited by rix on Saturday 11th July 07:04

Kipsrs

422 posts

48 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Mike83 kind of summed it up for me too, it’s just not a finished car, for me the predecessors, XK120,140 and 150’s we’re far nicer to look at. Is it just because Enzo Ferrari said it was the prettiest car he’d ever seen that they have such cult status?
Has anyone seen the drop head that Chip Foose finished? That looks half way to being pleasing to the eyes.
I suppose beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

humphra

480 posts

91 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Nice looking car, but I'm not sure the UK is the right market to sell it in. We do like originality here! Plus, LHD for a car that was also manufactured in RHD is another set back. Hopefully they've also got it advertised internationally, as I suspect back in the US would find more buyers and money.

coppice

8,562 posts

143 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
John Locke said:
There's nothing wrong with such a transplant, especially into the ugly and unloved Series 1.5 2 + 2 with the less free revving 4.2 engine. The car featured would have struggled past 130 mph on its original engine.

As is frequently the case in PH pieces though, drivel such as:
"a (very) carefully fettled version managed 150mph" is presented as fact.

Any 1961 -1964 3.8 E-Type would walk past 150 mph on 3 of the 4 available final drive ratios.
I've been reading reports in anything from Autocar to Supercar Classics ,over decades , that the legendary 150mph achieved by the Autocar road test E Type was down to an engine which owed much to a D Type and Dunlop racing tyres . Until now I have never read anything which suggested otherwise - so who is right, and why ? And as nobody made that type of allegation about , say , a DB 5 why pick on an E Type to fabricate a story ?

Baddie

606 posts

216 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
coppice said:
I've been reading reports in anything from Autocar to Supercar Classics ,over decades , that the legendary 150mph achieved by the Autocar road test E Type was down to an engine which owed much to a D Type and Dunlop racing tyres . Until now I have never read anything which suggested otherwise - so who is right, and why ? And as nobody made that type of allegation about , say , a DB 5 why pick on an E Type to fabricate a story ?
The original road-testers were patriotically ‘discreet’ about the original cars ability to top 150. The road test car was returned to Jaguar before the top speed run for a tyre change, but came back thirstier and lumpier. Also, when they failed to hit 150 two-up the tester went out on his own and returned with the stop watch showing the correct elapsed time - but it would not have been correct to question his integrity.

Maybe ten years ago Autocar had a feature where an E really did do 150 with some mods. Apparently it was a fairly scary experience with the back wheels almost lifting off the ground. So, no, no production E, even the V12, would go past 150. Most were nearer 140.

A1VDY

3,575 posts

126 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
coppice said:
John Locke said:
There's nothing wrong with such a transplant, especially into the ugly and unloved Series 1.5 2 + 2 with the less free revving 4.2 engine. The car featured would have struggled past 130 mph on its original engine.

As is frequently the case in PH pieces though, drivel such as:
"a (very) carefully fettled version managed 150mph" is presented as fact.

Any 1961 -1964 3.8 E-Type would walk past 150 mph on 3 of the 4 available final drive ratios.
I've been reading reports in anything from Autocar to Supercar Classics ,over decades , that the legendary 150mph achieved by the Autocar road test E Type was down to an engine which owed much to a D Type and Dunlop racing tyres . Until now I have never read anything which suggested otherwise - so who is right, and why ? And as nobody made that type of allegation about , say , a DB 5 why pick on an E Type to fabricate a story ?
Mines an original 62 3.8 and even with a flat 3 mile stretch of road wouldn't even touch 130mph. Maybe it is/was a little out of tune but a 'standard' 150mph I could never believe, the old standard fare xk is far too asthmatic..

Rozzers

1,657 posts

74 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
LIke the posts above I really dont like the fixed head/coupe at all, I think theyre awful. The convertible is better, but it doesnt agree with my eyes. Also used to work with an old guy who was Daimler’s test driver and rallied the Dart, they extensively tested the E-Type and he said they suffered from bad lift and the brakes were ste.

Now a D Type on the other hand, or a Lotus XI - I do like those -

Edited by Rozzers on Saturday 11th July 07:30

Mining Subsidence Man

418 posts

47 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Some of you may be able to support this story.

I was at Newcastle Uni 97-00 and used to walk to the city centre from Heaton. I remember seeing an early e-type hard top in so so condition which appeared to have something like a montego diesel engine in it. It was a 4 pot and went dag dag dag.

I remember thinking "what on earth"

It was not a kit car.

The spinner of plates

17,649 posts

199 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Before my time so I don’t really ‘get’ the E-type. Neither the styling not how it drives.

My dads friend has one in his collection, they both fawn over it.

I can respect it’s place in history, but that is all, I’d never actually want one.

sjabrown

1,910 posts

159 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
That’s not a ‘no’ from me. I like the FHC styling. Bonnet bulge for that V8 not so much but looks a relatively cheap way in to e type ownership especially if corrosion is minimal.
LHD isn’t much of an issue either for a classic, I find easy to adapt to on the road.

MadDog1962

890 posts

161 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
That car looks like an ideal candidate for the sort of restoration (or resto-mod) undertaken by Eagle E-Types.


Arsecati

2,284 posts

116 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Reading through the article, I tried to keep an open mind, trying to look at the logic and possible plus-points. I thought to myself: 'you know, if the money was right, then you could see a reason to go for something like this in its current state'.

And then I saw the price.

NOT A F*****G MISSION MATE!!!!!

cerb4.5lee

30,189 posts

179 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Even when I was kid I never understood the love for the looks of the E-Type(in any guise). It is a shape that has never done anything for me. I've always preferred the looks of the XJS in comparison.

Almani

16 posts

143 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
What's the USB of this vehicle - the engine! So why no photos of the engine? Why no photos of the interior? Just so lazy - some people do not deserve to run a business