RE: £25k mega-hatches | Six of the Best

[lee_erm]

Augustus Windsock said:

Funily enough I’ve been looking at Z4Ms for a few months, they really appeal but in this discussion is it a hatch? I’d suggest more of a coupe with a tailgate (as in, is an E type Jag a hatch because it has a tailgate that opens?). Still a bloody good alternative though!

I picked up a vanilla Z4 Coupe the other week. Nice thing and surprisingly practical, the boot space is probably equivalent to an older 90's Golf sized hatch. A Z4M is probably pretty depreciation proof too.

[alorotom]

Court_S said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I personally don't see the M140i as a hot hatch...especially with an auto gearbox. It is more of a cruiser for me and much like a smaller 3 series.

The Golf and AMG are auto’s too...

But I think you’re right, it’s not a hot hatch in the truest sense. In fact I’m not quite sure where it fits at all.

It’s quite rare but you can get the Golf in manual guise.

[NGK210]

biggbn said:

So...are they ALL like that? The world over? Honda produce car with chocolate mechanicals would be a big story, no? I am genuinely interested as I have always had Honda pegged as an impeccable company for engineering integrity and research and development. Have they finally produced a lemon?

LHD and RHD cars affected globally. The gearbox is problem-free on many cars, but many also have issues, which include: 1st and reverse lockouts, 4th lockout; 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd crunching; jumping out of 4th, etc.

Here’s an example of one of the many owner threads re gearbox problems:
https://www.civinfo.com/threads/gearbox-issues.398...

Overheating seems to affect all cars when ambient temp is over 30, especially during trackdays. MY 2020 car has modified grille in attempt to increase air flow. Jury still out.

Worth noting the FK2 (2015-17) had same issues.

More info here:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/11/issues-c...

[biggbn]

NGK210 said:

biggbn said:

So...are they ALL like that? The world over? Honda produce car with chocolate mechanicals would be a big story, no? I am genuinely interested as I have always had Honda pegged as an impeccable company for engineering integrity and research and development. Have they finally produced a lemon?

LHD and RHD cars affected globally. The gearbox is problem-free on many cars, but many also have issues, which include: 1st and reverse lockouts, 4th lockout; 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd crunching; jumping out of 4th, etc.

Here’s an example of one of the many owner threads re gearbox problems:
https://www.civinfo.com/threads/gearbox-issues.398...

Overheating seems to affect all cars when ambient temp is over 30, especially during trackdays. MY 2020 car has modified grille in attempt to increase air flow. Jury still out.

Worth noting the FK2 (2015-17) had same issues.

More info here:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/11/issues-c...

I always think its easy to overestimate problems as people rarely go on forums to say how good their car is and usually only appear if there is a problem. Many happy owners of both varieties you mention on here? If honda have dropped a bk, I would have thought it would have been all over fora and magazines the world over such is (was?) their reputation.

[biggbn]

NGK210 said:

LHD and RHD cars affected globally. The gearbox is problem-free on many cars, but many also have issues, which include: 1st and reverse lockouts, 4th lockout; 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd crunching; jumping out of 4th, etc.

Here’s an example of one of the many owner threads re gearbox problems:
https://www.civinfo.com/threads/gearbox-issues.398...

Overheating seems to affect all cars when ambient temp is over 30, especially during trackdays. MY 2020 car has modified grille in attempt to increase air flow. Jury still out.

Worth noting the FK2 (2015-17) had same issues.

More info here:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/11/issues-c...

Tha ks for those articles. The truth about.. one seems full of phrases like 'appears to be' and other ambiguous statements. Looking at the date, this would have been an early car? I'm surprised Honda released a shoddy car but one isn't that surprised that early and pre production models may have suffered teething problems given their prodigious performance and ability for the investment. That does not condone honda releasing sub standard cars if they have.

[_ppan]

biggbn said:

NGK210 said:

biggbn said:

So...are they ALL like that? The world over? Honda produce car with chocolate mechanicals would be a big story, no? I am genuinely interested as I have always had Honda pegged as an impeccable company for engineering integrity and research and development. Have they finally produced a lemon?

LHD and RHD cars affected globally. The gearbox is problem-free on many cars, but many also have issues, which include: 1st and reverse lockouts, 4th lockout; 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd crunching; jumping out of 4th, etc.

Here’s an example of one of the many owner threads re gearbox problems:
https://www.civinfo.com/threads/gearbox-issues.398...

Overheating seems to affect all cars when ambient temp is over 30, especially during trackdays. MY 2020 car has modified grille in attempt to increase air flow. Jury still out.

Worth noting the FK2 (2015-17) had same issues.

More info here:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/11/issues-c...

I always think its easy to overestimate problems as people rarely go on forums to say how good their car is and usually only appear if there is a problem. Many happy owners of both varieties you mention on here? If honda have dropped a bk, I would have thought it would have been all over fora and magazines the world over such is (was?) their reputation.

As a Honda fan, I have to say that with previous cars the weren't many problems described on the internet while many were sold. Now with the FK2 and FK8 that's different...I think it's too easy to dismiss just because not 100% of the cars have those problems. Using the same reasoning I could say Renault is just as reliable as the average Japanese car and Alfa Romeo had just as little problems with electronics as every other car. It pains me to say but it seems the FK2 and 8 seem not to uphold the usual Honda reliability.

[PeteinSQ]

I had an m140i and it was a great car. I don't think I drove it at 9/10s very often but the acceleration was always fun and getting it to slide round corners was a laugh when I wanted to scare my son.

I want to test drive some of the others on this list, especially the golf R before deciding on what to get next. Currently I'm in a very nice but quite dull 420i GC which goes back to the lease company in a couple of years. I'm wanting to buy second hand next time and a hot hatch is a likely replacement. Although I'd be tempted to look at something a bit lairier like an m4 or rs5.

[biggbn]

_ppan said:

biggbn said:

NGK210 said:

biggbn said:

So...are they ALL like that? The world over? Honda produce car with chocolate mechanicals would be a big story, no? I am genuinely interested as I have always had Honda pegged as an impeccable company for engineering integrity and research and development. Have they finally produced a lemon?

LHD and RHD cars affected globally. The gearbox is problem-free on many cars, but many also have issues, which include: 1st and reverse lockouts, 4th lockout; 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd crunching; jumping out of 4th, etc.

Here’s an example of one of the many owner threads re gearbox problems:
https://www.civinfo.com/threads/gearbox-issues.398...

Overheating seems to affect all cars when ambient temp is over 30, especially during trackdays. MY 2020 car has modified grille in attempt to increase air flow. Jury still out.

Worth noting the FK2 (2015-17) had same issues.

More info here:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/11/issues-c...

I always think its easy to overestimate problems as people rarely go on forums to say how good their car is and usually only appear if there is a problem. Many happy owners of both varieties you mention on here? If honda have dropped a bk, I would have thought it would have been all over fora and magazines the world over such is (was?) their reputation.

As a Honda fan, I have to say that with previous cars the weren't many problems described on the internet while many were sold. Now with the FK2 and FK8 that's different...I think it's too easy to dismiss just because not 100% of the cars have those problems. Using the same reasoning I could say Renault is just as reliable as the average Japanese car and Alfa Romeo had just as little problems with electronics as every other car. It pains me to say but it seems the FK2 and 8 seem not to uphold the usual Honda reliability.

Thanks for this, and you NGK, every day it appears IS a school day.

[Shuthan_rs3]

SidewaysSi said:

I presume they aren't purely talking about the engine. Whilst the Merc is hardly that exciting, it is far better than the Audi which is beyond crap.

Here we go again, total nonsense and another dig though your video says otherwise, no wonder your subscriber count is one of the lowest of all reviewers I have come across. I would recommend you keep your so called opinions to yourself and I speak on behalf of most people here.

Edited by Shuthan_rs3 on Saturday 11th July 21:28

[Johnnytheboy]

Cracks me up that everyone is queuing up to say how st these cars are, when they are all better than most other cars on the road.

Including, I rather suspect, many of the cars owned by contributors to this thread.

[ddom]

Johnnytheboy said:

Cracks me up that everyone is queuing up to say how st these cars are, when they are all better than most other cars on the road.

Including, I rather suspect, many of the cars owned by contributors to this thread.

Who is slagging them off?

[biggbn]

Johnnytheboy said:

Cracks me up that everyone is queuing up to say how st these cars are, when they are all better than most other cars on the road.

Including, I rather suspect, many of the cars owned by contributors to this thread.

I would have any one of them!!

[renmure]

biggbn said:

renmure said:

I was hot hatch hunting back in 2018 with an open mind but as soon as I spent a bit of time with the Honda there really wasn't any other choice to make. Admittedly the Ford RS I was looking at was the newer model and a better like-for-like comparison might have been an in yer face lime green MK2 but it was an easy decision for me anyhow.

Any of the aforementioned problems?

Boringly perhaps, no, no problems at all.

[Olivera]

biggbn said:

I am genuinely interested as I have always had Honda pegged as an impeccable company for engineering integrity and research and development. Have they finally produced a lemon?

I would say that Honda (at least in the UK) have over the years had good reliability, but to say they are impeccable or beyond reproach is fantasy.

Two examples being chocolate engines in the final model years (2008?) of the UK S2000, and regular premature clutch/DMF failures on the Civic 2.2 diesel.

[biggbn]

Olivera said:

biggbn said:

I am genuinely interested as I have always had Honda pegged as an impeccable company for engineering integrity and research and development. Have they finally produced a lemon?

I would say that Honda (at least in the UK) have over the years had good reliability, but to say they are impeccable or beyond reproach is fantasy.

Two examples being chocolate engines in the final model years (2008?) of the UK S2000, and regular premature clutch/DMF failures on the Civic 2.2 diesel.

All things are comparative, and I would say globally, Honda, Toyota and its offshoot Lexus have the best names for engineering integrity. Others may/will disagree. I am not disputing these companies will have failures, but in comparison to other mainstream and specialist manufacturers, they are a level above, unless things have drastically changed. I freely admit I am not 'up' on modern cars and am basing my opinion anecdotally and on my own experience of several Hondas and one Lexus!!

[anonymous-user]

benzinbob said:

Elatino1 said:

I'd have to rule out any fwd cars so that's most of the list. As good as they are they have the inherent fwd handling trait which can't be overcome without drive to the rear wheels. It's the reason that although my Megane is an excellent car it is lacking at the limit as are all of these fwd cars.

How often do you reach the limit?

All day about every 2 months on track and on roads only in short bursts. You can't get away from the fwd dynamics even though they are still good cars.

[J4CKO]

FA57REN said:

200Plus Club said:

Not for me. 25k gets you into some nice non fwd sports cars.

Ah the RWD Reflex.

That Mégane or Type-R will happily crayon all over the homework of most RWD cars, given equal driver skill.

Yep, dont get the M140i, its not a great package, nice engine in a half decent hatch but hobbled by a poor chassis, steering and usually, a very good but sort of inappropriate for a hot hatch auto box.

[anonymous-user]

A mk3 Focus RS would be preferable to these. A shame the new A45s is so much money and auto only. Also although not a hot hatch this is BMW M2 money nearly.

[irocfan]

Tickle said:

irocfan said:

For £25k my money would go elsewhere - if I *had* to buy a hh though it'd be the RS

Megane or Focus?

Apologies. I'm old and so to me RS = Ford (albeit my car is an SS/RS and that's a Chevy)

[PPPMAT]

FK8 for me and just for balance mine has been faultless. Fabulous hot hatch.