What’s the future hold for us petrol heads?

[anonymous-user]

stabilio said:

But much of the youth show no interest in traditional performance ICE cars. None of my kids or there friends paid any attention to my M car, AMG or Audi RS.
Stick a Tesla on the drive and suddenly they’re interested and think it’s cool and to have a ride in it.

My take, it's a bit like music. you need to grow up with a certain 'genre' to form the emotional bond. If you missed this through age or chance, then it's quite hard (but not impossible) to acquire.

[A900ss]

I think you are missing the point a little.

I have an EV.

I also have a V8.

The EV is ‘transport’ and it is brilliant at it. Smooth, quiet, cheap, effective.

The V8 is brilliant and it’s tactile, thrilling and audible.

They can work in harmony and one will ensure that there is more of a future for the other.....

Welcome to the 21st century. Humans have always progressed and it’s not always a bad thing when you actually do it.

Good luck,

[hungry_hog]

I can see the large UK cities being heavily hybrid/electric
ULEZ scheme expanded to cover petrol as well as diesel
I think derv will be only for work vehicles and maybe special license (tradesperson or small business)
Large engine petrol cars to become a preserve of the track or specialist events.

I know on here we love V8s /V12 and noisy/rumbling engines - I get the impression the younger generation aren't as bothered by that stuff.
Most are more into tech and the external styling & accessories

[av185]

stabilio said:

Bobtherallyfan said:

I took my 911 out yesterday for a couple of hours of good old fashioned fun. Normally I potter around in it as it’s my pride and joy, something I’ve wanted for years. At the moment, apart from a McLaren that embarrassed me, it’s quicker than anything else I’ve encountered where I live, but that’s going to change. Even now I find myself looking at the badges, or checking out the alloys, to make sure I’m not picking a fight with an electric fridge I can’t win. Luckily I’m at the age when speed will soon matter less than the need to plan rest stops for my bladder. I feel so sorry for the younger generation who will never experience their first twin cam, V6, V8 or the like. 80kWh doesn’t quite have the same ring.

RIP real motoring

But much of the youth show no interest in traditional performance ICE cars. None of my kids or there friends paid any attention to my M car, AMG or Audi RS.
Stick a Tesla on the drive and suddenly they’re interested and think it’s cool and to have a ride in it.

Try showing them an interesting involving and challenging ice car such as a Performante Pista or GT3.

The Tesla wouldn't get a second glance.

[grumbledoak]

I wouldn't mind an electric car as long as the performance is similar.

I will actually be glad to see the back of diesels. And pops, bangs, and "sporty" farting noises on white goods.

[bloomen]

av185 said:

Try showing them an interesting involving and challenging ice car such as a Performante Pista or GT3.

The Tesla wouldn't get a second glance.

They'd still have a larger boner for the over the air updates and farting noises.

[aeropilot]

Scootersp said:

Poor people can't afford any new car, so enforced change will be a vote loser?

This the thing.

I'll be at retirement age in 8 years time, and a EV only car won't work for me while I'm still working, and I won't be able to afford to change car once retired, so likely whatever I have at the point of retirement will have to last me as long as possible, and that will be a ICE vehicle by default most likely.......very slim chance it could be a hybrid, if I can afford to change a few years prior to retirement, but I think we'll still be in a post Covid economic mess still in 5/6 years time, so I can't see me being able to.

I think the only EV only vehicle I'll be owning will be one of these at some point in 25 or so years time

[Jawls]

wizzard450 said:

Talking with a mate and we were saying how we are all going to be forced to drive electric things in the near future.

With the talks of banning petrol and diesel Sales by 2035 and going zero carbon by 2050, its not looking great for us.

Will we be able to hold onto our loved petrol motors even after 2050? Fuel prices will continue to rise to un affordable prices, practically forcing us to move to electric. But what about us that like running cheap sheds? There will have to be huge incentives to make the regular low earner go to electric or us that just use our cars on a weekend. Battery lifespan about 10 years, unless there’s a huge breakthrough in battery technology I don’t see it been viable....

Thoughts?

My two penneth:

Owning an ICE car will never be banned, even after 2050 (obviously buying a new one will be impossible, but that’s different). It will just become progressively more cumbersome/expensive to do so over time. Petrol stations will be rarer, and I would be surprised if the government didn’t retrospectively amend VED. Expect progressively more urban jurisdictions to make it difficult to take an ICE car in to them.

Both that last consideration (sheds have to be usable in most contexts. If you can’t take it into eg. Manchester, is that usable if you live in the North West?) and old Father Time takes care of the shed. Not a lot of people can be bothered with the hassle of running a 25+ year old shed.

I’ve basically accepted that there’s a fairly good chance my next car will be electric. Though I’m in no hurry to change out of what I’ve got.

[Alias218]

BEVs are, objectively, better than ICE vehicles in every way, or at least will be in very short order. However, subjectively, they will never be as good as ICE vehicles (IMO). The sounds, smells, vibrations and tactile feedback through the pedals, gearstick etc. of BEVs will never match those of ICE vehicles. I’ll be keeping my noisy, inefficient 3.5 V6 for the foreseeable fully knowing it’ll never appreciate to any significant value.

I will also, in due course, be looking to buy a BEV for daily duties. I’m looking forward to it in fact! I just hope petrol availability will be such that my dinosaur car won’t become a stationary artefact.

[James-m5qjf]

The people saying modern cars are crap and sound rubbish do make me chuckle. My 2018 340i Touring with the performance kit sounds absolutely stunning - you would be hard pushed to find a better do it all car.

In 5 years I’ll probably (begrudgingly) swap it for an EV equivalent, and have a bike for being antisocial at the weekend.

People also seem too obsessed with appreciation/depreciation, get a bus if that’s forming part of your decision making process..

Edited by James-m5qjf on Saturday 11th July 21:54

[RobDickinson]

wizzard450 said:

Talking with a mate and we were saying how we are all going to be forced to drive electric things in the near future.

With the talks of banning petrol and diesel Sales by 2035 and going zero carbon by 2050, its not looking great for us.

Will we be able to hold onto our loved petrol motors even after 2050? Fuel prices will continue to rise to un affordable prices, practically forcing us to move to electric. But what about us that like running cheap sheds? There will have to be huge incentives to make the regular low earner go to electric or us that just use our cars on a weekend. Battery lifespan about 10 years, unless there’s a huge breakthrough in battery technology I don’t see it been viable....

Thoughts?

Imagine not changing and getting to 2050 only to be wiped out by climate change..?

[aeropilot]

James-m5qjf said:

The people saying modern cars are crap and sound rubbish do make me chuckle. My 2018 340i Touring with the performance kit sounds absolutely stunning - you would be hard pushed to find a better do it all car.

That is a bit of an exception though these days, with more and more makers only having farty 4-pot motors outside of the few remaining V8's etc.

I loved the sound of my old E82 135i with the BMWP exhaust.....
(my neighbours didn't though at 6am on 'cold start' )

[Lester H]

Scootersp said:

It'll be a long time I think.

Massive petrol chemical influence/money/power
Poor people can't afford any new car, so enforced change will be a vote loser?
It's definitely shifting but I just don't see it being quickly to full electric/electric domination

I agree totally with Scootersp. Yes, the EV thing will happen, but very slowly. It’s very much urban based and prices are still excessive Also some car mags like to appear “switched on” - sorry - by trumpeting electric values. In the wide world outside these wannabe trendies, many drivers either don’t give a damn, or are worried about batteries running down especially when it gets cold. Many households who manage with one vehicle just daren’t risk the EV scenario. I have also heard of “charging socket rage”.The used trade is canny and hard-bitten and will adapt to selling diesels and petrols for a long time .Perhaps the enforcement deadlines will prove flexible as pragmatic governments approach election times.Also, when you fly over the UK, isn’t it remarkable just how much of it isn’t urban or congested.

Edited by Lester H on Sunday 12th July 09:51

[Uggers]

Alias218 said:

BEVs are, objectively, better than ICE vehicles in every way, or at least will be in very short order. However, subjectively, they will never be as good as ICE vehicles (IMO). The sounds, smells, vibrations and tactile feedback through the pedals, gearstick etc. of BEVs will never match those of ICE vehicles. I’ll be keeping my noisy, inefficient 3.5 V6 for the foreseeable fully knowing it’ll never appreciate to any significant value.

I will also, in due course, be looking to buy a BEV for daily duties. I’m looking forward to it in fact! I just hope petrol availability will be such that my dinosaur car won’t become a stationary artefact.

This is my view on the situation. Engines have characteristics, which we as humans find appealing.
An electric motor, has no great noise, no characteristics. It is therefore as interesting as a tub of lard.

You can see how steam still holds massive appeal with train enthusiasts. Millions of people pay lots of money to be transported by these trains as a day out.
You won't see anyone in 60 years time trying to restore an electric train as it holds great memories for them.

Electric may be the future, and it will eventually be everywhere. But there will be no effort to keep/restore these vehicles. They will be viewed with as much emotional attachment as I have with my washing machine. They will no doubt become as disposable too, which doesn't bode well for the environment.

Fingers crossed Pistonheads in the future branches off and the electric side has their own dedicated site BrushlessMotorheads, Amps Matters.....

[Bagzie88]

stabilio said:

Loved my big noisy engines, cold starts, crackles on overrun etc but new performance cars sound crap now, have fake noise piped into cabin, fake vents and even fake exhausts now.
Every different car I had (I swapped within 12 months or earlier every time) It felt like side stepping so bit the bullet and got a Tesla and it genuinely felt like a big forward stride for once.
As a company director, the benefits were massive and still had the performance which I didn’t want to lose.
I usually get itchy feet to swap cars after 6 months but honestly couldn’t be happier right now.
In the real world, it’s the fastest car I’ve had, costs about a fiver to fill up (from my drive) which is good for approx 300 miles and there’s no servicing as such.
Can’t ever see myself buying an ICE again and hate driving them now.
Embrace the future as it’s only just beginning and nothing lasts forever.

Company director you say? Would you say you where powerfully built aswell? Have you been known to spontaneously show up at landings to dominate them?

[av185]

stabilio said:

Loved my big noisy engines, cold starts, crackles on overrun etc but new performance cars sound crap now, have fake noise piped into cabin, fake vents and even fake exhausts now.

Sounds like you only have limited experience of new performance cars.

The fake ones.

[FiF]

Problem is what about applications where there really is no solution even on the horizon. Long distance trucking? Heavy draft farmwork, ploughing, combining? Marine?

There will for a long time be petrol and diesel available imo. How long is long time? Pure guess 40/50 years.

What there needs to be is totally honesty about vehicle emissions. Not in the slightest interested in what comes out of a tailpipe into a hose in an artificial laboratory setting, but real life PLUS most important what's involved in the making of the vehicle? Child labour digging up minerals in DRC but one example. There is zero honesty about this today.

Still the politicians will do what they will. I see cars from 80s/90s largely disappearing. Classics from 60s will be OK. The current manufacturer race to deliver ever more horsepower to sell you the latest slightly quicker whatever after two years is getting less and less interesting. Personally I have zero interest in hypercars, ok some passing purely technical interest, but practically why, just frustrating. Why should you, as CH puts it, put down 25k and then 1500 per month for two years use of something you can't use on public roads without serious risk to licence except for pottering in 1st and second gear, by which point you're well illegal. Bah humbug.

[biggbn]

I find it intersting that there seems to be a separation between 'petrolheads', which is gaining a more literal translation, and car enthusiast. I have owned over 200 cars and love the weird, wonderful and eccentric designs of the past and present. I can get as excited about a heavily dented series 3 landy as a Maserati Bora, yet already have a bit of a disconnect with some if todays hypercars, although i am hugely glad of their existence.

I feel no affiliation to the combustion engine. I love the sound of a big, dirty v8, or the manic chatter of any triple, etc, but the availability of an ICE does not engender automatic affection for a car. In short, i love the mechanical feel of a 'traditional' car, but i love CARS. The term petrolhead may gain a new meaning but i will always be a car enthusiast. I am excited about the way car design is going, where engineering will take us, how far the performance envelope can be pushed, and none of that is reliant on an inneficient albeit characterful box of spinning parts being part of the package. Embrace the future, its just getting interesting...

[Condi]

Alias218 said:

BEVs are, objectively, better than ICE vehicles in every way, or at least will be in very short order. However, subjectively, they will never be as good as ICE vehicles (IMO). The sounds, smells, vibrations and tactile feedback through the pedals, gearstick etc. of BEVs will never match those of ICE vehicles. I’ll be keeping my noisy, inefficient 3.5 V6 for the foreseeable fully knowing it’ll never appreciate to any significant value.

People said the same about the steam engine.

But what the majority of the public want are a quiet, smooth, cheap and convenient car - and for many people that will either be a hydrogen or battery car, if not now then very shortly.

And the petrol engine will join the steam engine as a thing for enthusiasts.

[imperium]

I was quite anti EV for a while, but I’m slowly coming round to the idea of it as an option. With the driving I do, I like to fill up a full tank and know I have 600 miles without messing about. Not sure any EVs will provide that any time soon. I’ve really liked the Tesla’s I’ve been in though.