RE: 2020 Ford Bronco is 'Built Wild'

[300bhp/ton]

RacerMike said:

'Plenty of people' meaning probably 10-20. Meanwhile pickup and european off roader sales are in the tens of thousands.

And what has that to do with the price of biscuits?

You said it isn't legal and can't be bought here. Cleary there is a viable route for those that are genuinely interested. Not really sure what you problem is with this.

[RacerMike]

300bhp/ton said:

RacerMike said:

'Plenty of people' meaning probably 10-20. Meanwhile pickup and european off roader sales are in the tens of thousands.

And what has that to do with the price of biscuits?

You said it isn't legal and can't be bought here. Cleary there is a viable route for those that are genuinely interested. Not really sure what you problem is with this.

You're either intentionally or otherwise missing the point of the original statement I made. The things that make the Bronco different to the Defender that you're suggesting are why the Defender is (in your opinion) missing the target, are all things that mean the Bronco is US only. If the new Defender was like the Bronco, you wouldn't be able to buy it here with any ease. It would be a US only car, and one that wouldn't have the same following as the Bronco does.

[unsprung]

RacerMike said:

You realise that every LR product for the last 20 years has been developed at Moab? That's why Ford are going there....because Range Rover and Land Rover and Jeep are the benchmark for offroad performance.

There is a wisp of a smattering, in the US, that carries a torch for the original Defender. Part of this has spilled over into rich people who may or may not know about off-roading.

The appeal is scarcity: The original Defender was sold at limited times and in small numbers. Today, it is no longer easily found and purchased.

For most Americans, the experience of Land Rover products is about being posh in town. These vehicles are expensive to acquire and can be ruinous to maintain.

Their appeal is less about off-road prowess and more about being a Veblen good:

"Here’s Why Land Rover Doesn’t Care About JD Power Ratings"
https://dougdemuro.kinja.com/here-s-why-land-rover...

[JonnyVTEC]

300bhp/ton said:

By comparison, the new Defender seemed to always be hidden away by JLR. None of its features were really touted about and the only real promo I recall was letting badly disguised versions be seen at the Nurburgring.......


Ford are even being real world and quite happy to let people see the trail damage incurred when seriously off road:



I think this is a wonderful way to market a vehicle and truly appeals to the likes of me. A real vehicle, being used in a real world usage. No PR guff and photoshopped lies.

Unless you have now ordered one it is not wonderful. The end.

Sympathies to anyone who does that as a hobby, Clearly turns you into a forum loon.

[300bhp/ton]

RacerMike said:

You're either intentionally or otherwise missing the point of the original statement I made. The things that make the Bronco different to the Defender that you're suggesting are why the Defender is (in your opinion) missing the target, are all things that mean the Bronco is US only. If the new Defender was like the Bronco, you wouldn't be able to buy it here with any ease. It would be a US only car, and one that wouldn't have the same following as the Bronco does.

I don’t see how your argument holds any water.

The Wrangler fulfils the brief as well as the Bronco and IS sold here.

[anonymous-user]

Let's off road!

[RacerMike]

300bhp/ton said:

RacerMike said:

You're either intentionally or otherwise missing the point of the original statement I made. The things that make the Bronco different to the Defender that you're suggesting are why the Defender is (in your opinion) missing the target, are all things that mean the Bronco is US only. If the new Defender was like the Bronco, you wouldn't be able to buy it here with any ease. It would be a US only car, and one that wouldn't have the same following as the Bronco does.

I don’t see how your argument holds any water.

The Wrangler fulfils the brief as well as the Bronco and IS sold here.

Well there we go. The Wrangler sells in absolutely tiny numbers in Europe compared to things like X5s, Discovery 5s, Range Rovers etc which basically shows that the public want road biased 4x4s.

[300bhp/ton]

RacerMike said:

Well there we go. The Wrangler sells in absolutely tiny numbers in Europe compared to things like X5s, Discovery 5s, Range Rovers etc which basically shows that the public want road biased 4x4s.

How many Mx-5’s and Elises are sold vs 1.0 litre Fiestas or Fiat 500’s?

Are you suggesting anything that isn’t a best seller should be canned?

[RacerMike]

300bhp/ton said:

RacerMike said:

Well there we go. The Wrangler sells in absolutely tiny numbers in Europe compared to things like X5s, Discovery 5s, Range Rovers etc which basically shows that the public want road biased 4x4s.

How many Mx-5’s and Elises are sold vs 1.0 litre Fiestas or Fiat 500’s?

Are you suggesting anything that isn’t a best seller should be canned?

You know the discussion 300. Don't play ignorant as it's been done to death with you, but you're pretending to not understand because it would mean admitting to the fact that there are reasons why LR chose/where required to make the car less like an old Defender/new Bronco than you wanted.

[camel_landy]

RacerMike said:

300bhp/ton said:

Are you suggesting anything that isn’t a best seller should be canned?

You know the discussion 300. Don't play ignorant as it's been done to death with you...

Mark Twain said:

Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

M

[unsprung]

300bhp/ton said:

Ford really seem to have nailed the marketing on the new Bronco.

YouTube is littered with off road footage at Moab, Rubicon and others. Plus demonstrations of the technology and spec and walkthrough guides on features.

Even without looking for this content, it is being presented to me (as I like off roading and 4x4's, etc).

e.g.




By comparison, the new Defender seemed to always be hidden away by JLR. None of its features were really touted about and the only real promo I recall was letting badly disguised versions be seen at the Nurburgring.......


Ford are even being real world and quite happy to let people see the trail damage incurred when seriously off road:



I think this is a wonderful way to market a vehicle and truly appeals to the likes of me. A real vehicle, being used in a real world usage. No PR guff and photoshopped lies.

Wow!

I finally got round to watching that video --- Mickey's Hot Tub on the Hell's Revenge Trail in Utah.

Very interesting.

I did wonder: Would the exit be easier if the vehicle would be driven such that the "footprint" or "patch" of the right-hand tyres was placed just a wee bit against the right-hand wall of the "hot tub".

Also: This video is from an event organized by Ford. The task at hand appears to be both aspirational and achievable. We also see what appear to be ordinary folks milling about and observing. There's nothing that is trying to be too exclusive or posh about this.

I'd have to agree that the publicity efforts for Bronco -- almost a year before vehicles will arrive on forecourts -- show a commitment by the OEM to building community. To building understanding of culture and not merely product knowledge.

[anonymous-user]

300bhp/ton said:

Ford really seem to have nailed the marketing on the new Bronco.

YouTube is littered with off road footage at Moab, Rubicon and others. Plus demonstrations of the technology and spec and walkthrough guides on features.

By comparison, the new Defender seemed to always be hidden away by JLR. None of its features were really touted about and the only real promo I recall was letting badly disguised versions be seen at the Nurburgring.......

You’re comparing the two cars at different points in their development and release. One where the defender is still in camo, so clearly details are hush hush. And one where the Bronco is out of camo and therefore Ford are shouting about it, just as LR were after the full reveal.

[anonymous-user]

mstrbkr said:

300bhp/ton said:

Ford really seem to have nailed the marketing on the new Bronco.

YouTube is littered with off road footage at Moab, Rubicon and others. Plus demonstrations of the technology and spec and walkthrough guides on features.

By comparison, the new Defender seemed to always be hidden away by JLR. None of its features were really touted about and the only real promo I recall was letting badly disguised versions be seen at the Nurburgring.......

You’re comparing the two cars at different points in their development and release. One where the defender is still in camo, so clearly details are hush hush. And one where the Bronco is out of camo and therefore Ford are shouting about it, just as LR were after the full reveal.

You also need to note the er, unfortunate timing for the Defender press drives, which was scheduled to occur in May and June this year,which obviously got cancelled due to C19!

[unsprung]

CAR DESIGNER
CRITIQUES BRONCO DESIGN

Frank Stephenson has been director of design for Ferrari, MINI, and a number of other nameplates. Here he offers a running commentary on the new Bronco.

. . . "It's updated, so I don't consider this to be retro."

. . . "The fact that you can actually remove those doors and put them in the back of the vehicle, and take them with you, and reassemble it yourself, is quite a feat of engineering."

video
https://www.motor1.com/news/440154/frank-stephenso...

.

[anonymous-user]

I really don't see the use of removable doors, not in this country anyway.
I can appreciate a removable roof or frameless drop down door windows, to open up the vehicle, but no doors?
In the full fat spec it looks silly, or obscene even.
In the base spec it looks boring and bland.
I can't see it displacing any of the premium 4x4s because it's got no class. That doesn't mean it's classless.
I can see this appealing to the kind of person who likes the fattened up pickups with special editions names like Animal, Barbarian or Saracen and the likes, B1G J1M and F4T B0Y number plate - beefcake, beefcake, BEEFCAKE! You'd be able to enjoy pushing round the old dears in their Picantos while you drive around town, fluctuating between 20 and 40 through a 20 zone, slowing down and then flooring it, making a bit of noise.........

[MadmanO/T People]

300bhp/ton said:

RacerMike said:

Well there we go. The Wrangler sells in absolutely tiny numbers in Europe compared to things like X5s, Discovery 5s, Range Rovers etc which basically shows that the public want road biased 4x4s.

How many Mx-5’s and Elises are sold vs 1.0 litre Fiestas or Fiat 500’s?

Are you suggesting anything that isn’t a best seller should be canned?

Funny thing is, this is EXACTLY Ford's approach in America: discontinue all of your passenger cars, even the ones that sell pretty well, to focus on high-profit-margin trucks and SUVs. I fail to see how ceding entire market segments to the Asian brands makes for a viable strategy.

"Sorry, Sir. We don't have any sensible cars for your commute to work. Here, have this $40,000 rock-crawling Jeep ripoff, instead!"

[AlphaDelta]

I do love this vehicle and Ford seem to have nailed the launch but I don’t see this coming to Europe any time soon. Ford have had a number of poor launches recently (Explorer being the biggest) and really need to show some profitability. Now they’ve a potential hit on their hands everything will be focused on ensuring a flawless US launch. Get that out of the way and MAYBE they will look and expanding outside the US.

[anonymous-user]

MadmanO/T People said:

Funny thing is, this is EXACTLY Ford's approach in America: discontinue all of your passenger cars, even the ones that sell pretty well, to focus on high-profit-margin trucks and SUVs. I fail to see how ceding entire market segments to the Asian brands makes for a viable strategy.

"Sorry, Sir. We don't have any sensible cars for your commute to work. Here, have this $40,000 rock-crawling Jeep ripoff, instead!"

Because Ford and GM haven't made a cent selling passenger cars globally for decades (the Japanese make roughly $1500 per car) conversely they make about $13k per pickup ($17k+ per full size pickup)!

[MadmanO/T People]

fblm said:

MadmanO/T People said:

Funny thing is, this is EXACTLY Ford's approach in America: discontinue all of your passenger cars, even the ones that sell pretty well, to focus on high-profit-margin trucks and SUVs. I fail to see how ceding entire market segments to the Asian brands makes for a viable strategy.

"Sorry, Sir. We don't have any sensible cars for your commute to work. Here, have this $40,000 rock-crawling Jeep ripoff, instead!"

Because Ford and GM haven't made a cent selling passenger cars globally for decades (the Japanese make roughly $1500 per car) conversely they make about $13k per pickup ($17k+ per full size pickup)!

Ford were selling well over 200,000 Mexican-built Fusions (AKA Mondeo) annually when they announced they were killing their passenger cars in North America. If they can't make money selling hundreds of thousands of cars built with cheap Mexican labour then there is something seriously wrong going on at Ford!

[unsprung]

Poetry by Robert Frost, the poet_and_playwright, features in this so-called "director's cut" of the Bronco launch video.

video here:
https://www.motor1.com/news/441041/2021-ford-bronc...