RE: McLaren 620R | PH Review

[TypeRTim]

650spider said:

I think that's as near as you can get as a fair comparison, although the GTS is a very different beast to the 570.

Sorry to disagree with the other poster, but there are no Caymans on the same spectrum; even a GT4 seems lethargic going from a 540C.

That's why I posted the Lambo comparison. More trying to convey that the Sports Series and Super Series are indeed VERY different models. Well aware the Cayman and SS fulfill very different spots in the performance range, but Porsche don't have anything above the 911 to compare the Super Series to.

That was my only reason!

[650spider]

TypeRTim said:

650spider said:

I think that's as near as you can get as a fair comparison, although the GTS is a very different beast to the 570.

Sorry to disagree with the other poster, but there are no Caymans on the same spectrum; even a GT4 seems lethargic going from a 540C.

That's why I posted the Lambo comparison. More trying to convey that the Sports Series and Super Series are indeed VERY different models. Well aware the Cayman and SS fulfill very different spots in the performance range, but Porsche don't have anything above the 911 to compare the Super Series to.

That was my only reason!

[Camelot1971]

650spider said:

theRossatron said:

I think for me, the strangest thing is the real contempt British people show for a fantastic British product.

In Italy, Italians react to Ferrari's with pride and enthusiasm. Seems like the polar opposite here.

Its the British way.

Nobody likes to see anybody do well, and God forbid you if you decide to buy a car on some kind of finance deal.

Makes you want to puke.

I don't think that's true at all. What British people don't like is cold, arrogant people or companies that think they have a right to exist without any kind of criticism.

Bar the F1, McLaren have produced cars that are devoid of charisma and personality - even the naming of their cars is terrible. MP4-12C could be a washing machine or a phone. Yes, it's a cliché, but there is no obvious passion like there is with a lot of other brands. That's fine if you can rely on cold, clinical excellence but what McLaren actually are delivering is unreliable, poorly built cars in the hope that the blind zealots that buy them will keep sticking their fingers in their ears and going "lalalalala" when anyone mentions issues.

It's no coincidence that people who buy McLarens have the same traits as the manufacturer.

[TypeRTim]

Camelot1971 said:

I don't think that's true at all. What British people don't like is cold, arrogant people or companies that think they have a right to exist without any kind of criticism.

Bar the F1, McLaren have produced cars that are devoid of charisma and personality - even the naming of their cars is terrible. MP4-12C could be a washing machine or a phone. Yes, it's a cliché, but there is no obvious passion like there is with a lot of other brands. That's fine if you can rely on cold, clinical excellence but what McLaren actually are delivering is unreliable, poorly built cars in the hope that the blind zealots that buy them will keep sticking their fingers in their ears and going "lalalalala" when anyone mentions issues.

It's no coincidence that people who buy McLarens have the same traits as the manufacturer.

Tad harsh! Nice way to personally attack a whole bunch of people who probably have nothing against you whatsoever!

Charisma and passion are all subjective ie: they can't be objectively measured in the same way by different people. I find Porsches dull as dishwater, but I don't attack Porsche owners saying they must all 'have the same traits as the manufacturer' ie: be dull as dishwater. But other people find them genuinely exciting and full of 'character'.

Every brand has their struggles with reliability - Porsche engines bore scoring, Ferrari 458s spontaneously combusting etc. These are brands with decades of experience making road cars, with millions and millions (possibly even billions) worth of financial clout and backing. Given another 50 years, then I'm sure Mclaren will be just as 'reliable' as the equivalent Fezza.

Also, there are plenty of owners on here who can categorically say that their Mclarens are very very reliable machines. (equally there will be others who say completely the opposite)

[bennno]

Porsche911R said:

That’s rubbish lol

So you think the 620R has standard sus geo and no trick shocks !

Odd.

The 570s = 911 GTS
600lt = GT3
620r = GT3 RS

720S = 992 turbos S
765lt = GT2 RS


IMHO.

Non comparable, even the entry level 540c has more power than 991.2 gt3rs

The only comparison that can be made between a cayman and a McLaren, is that for the price of a lightly optioned gts or gt4 you could be driving round in a entry level supercar in the form of a 12-18 month old sports series.

[SidewaysSi]

650spider said:

Porsche911R said:

That’s rubbish lol

So you think the 620R has standard sus geo and no trick shocks !

Odd.

The 570s = 911 GTS
600lt = GT3
620r = GT3 RS

720S = 992 turbos S
765lt = GT2 RS


IMHO.

I think that's as near as you can get as a fair comparison, although the GTS is a very different beast to the 570.

Sorry to disagree with the other poster, but there are no Caymans on the same spectrum; even a GT4 seems lethargic going from a 540C.

Personally I see them as similar to:

Cavalier L
Cavalier GL
Cavalier CD
Cavalier Diplomat

Cavalier SRI - this is the 620R equivalent
Cavalier GSI - the Senna?

[gigglebug]

bennno said:

Non comparable, even the entry level 540c has more power than 991.2 gt3rs

You are completely missing the whole point of what the comparison is trying to show though; which is only to help folks ascertain where, within Mclaren’s line up, any chosen models sits within their hierarchy by equating it to Porsche’s own. It is in no shape meant to be a direct comparison between the chosen cars outright abilities is it. To be fair though if anybody is in the position where they really can’t get their heads around one particular companies model line up, and how they relate to each other within that line up, I can’t see them being any less confused having it compared it to another company’s line up which itself is neither harder or easier to understand.

[Porsche911R]

TypeRTim said:

The 'trick shocks' in question are the Super Series' Hydraulically linked active suspension that replaces the solid roll bars and steel springs/shocks of the sports series.

The 620R has manually adjustable motorsport coilover shocks using solid bushings.Still with solid anti-roll bars.

You also got the second bit wrong. If you were to include the whole Mclaren range and try to compare it to Porsche's it would look more like this:

540C: Cayman 718
570S: Cayman 718S
600LT: Cayman GTS 4.0
620R: Cayman GT4

.

codswollop


what this proves is even though we know the models NO ONE can agree which in the range vs Porsche they are aim at.

My list still is the best :-)

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 21st August 12:37

[Maldini35]

SidewaysSi said:

Personally I see them as similar to:

Cavalier L
Cavalier GL
Cavalier CD
Cavalier Diplomat

Cavalier SRI - this is the 620R equivalent
Cavalier GSI - the Senna?

Now this is very good.

A proper PH post.

[RSbandit]

Ah lovely another Mclaren thread descends into the usual nonsense. Incredible the amount of crap directed towards a British company that has taken the fight to the established marques whilst having nowhere near the financial clout. The general public in contrast really like seeing a Mclaren out and about...Porsches in general do nothing for me but I don't go on the Porsche forum slagging off the company or it's owners...you'd have to be a proper sad sack to waste your time doing that.

[Maldini35]

Camelot1971 said:

650spider said:

theRossatron said:

I think for me, the strangest thing is the real contempt British people show for a fantastic British product.

In Italy, Italians react to Ferrari's with pride and enthusiasm. Seems like the polar opposite here.

Its the British way.

Nobody likes to see anybody do well, and God forbid you if you decide to buy a car on some kind of finance deal.

Makes you want to puke.

I don't think that's true at all. What British people don't like is cold, arrogant people or companies that think they have a right to exist without any kind of criticism.

Bar the F1, McLaren have produced cars that are devoid of charisma and personality - even the naming of their cars is terrible. MP4-12C could be a washing machine or a phone. Yes, it's a cliché, but there is no obvious passion like there is with a lot of other brands. That's fine if you can rely on cold, clinical excellence but what McLaren actually are delivering is unreliable, poorly built cars in the hope that the blind zealots that buy them will keep sticking their fingers in their ears and going "lalalalala" when anyone mentions issues.

It's no coincidence that people who buy McLarens have the same traits as the manufacturer.

Not sure if trolling but I'll reply.

Your opinion on McLarens cars is exactly that. An opinion.
You believe they lack charisma. Not sure if you've ever driven one but even if you have, then you are welcome to your opinion.

What I think some object to is your insistence that your opinion is a fact.
The absolute truth.

It's obviously not.
If is was, I would think the same.

As I said earlier, having blasted around Vallelunga at full chat in a 720S, and talked to the engineers at length I concluded that the car has real charisma and the people behind it real passion.

(As an aside, it would be interesting to know what personal experience led you to form your opinion)

If forums are all about differing opinions so why are you so seemingly intolerant of those defending McLaren?

Surely dissenting voices to yours are equally valid?

[SidewaysSi]

650spider said:

SidewaysSi said:

Personally I see them as similar to:

Cavalier L
Cavalier GL
Cavalier CD
Cavalier Diplomat

Cavalier SRI - this is the 620R equivalent
Cavalier GSI - the Senna?

I had a yr old Cavalier 2.0GLi back in '93...that was a great car; look back on that fondly.

Not really comparable to the Mac I have now.

Work a bit harder sideways, and maybe you can get yourself one instead of being bitter and making posts that make you look as such.

Me bitter? Why do you say that? And don't you worry about my work old chap... I would concentrate on yourself rather than worrying about others.

And please tell me you aren't so inexperienced/small minded to think more expensive cars are automatically better at everything..

Edited by SidewaysSi on Friday 21st August 13:14

[bennno]

RSbandit said:

Ah lovely another Mclaren thread descends into the usual nonsense. Incredible the amount of crap directed towards a British company that has taken the fight to the established marques whilst having nowhere near the financial clout. The general public in contrast really like seeing a Mclaren out and about...Porsches in general do nothing for me but I don't go on the Porsche forum slagging off the company or it's owners...you'd have to be a proper sad sack to waste your time doing that.

Sadly its always one specific Porsche nerd who can't stick to his lane.

Any car thats relatively hand-built in low quantities (by a formula one manufacturer) using a carbon tub and twin turbo v8 will invariably be more troublesome to run than a mass produced sportscar, but consequently will be significantly more exotic.

Its unbelievable to think you can pick up a relatively new sports series for 2/3 of the price of an equivalent 5 -6 year hurrican or 488.

[TypeRTim]

Porsche911R said:

TypeRTim said:

The 'trick shocks' in question are the Super Series' Hydraulically linked active suspension that replaces the solid roll bars and steel springs/shocks of the sports series.

The 620R has manually adjustable motorsport coilover shocks using solid bushings.Still with solid anti-roll bars.

You also got the second bit wrong. If you were to include the whole Mclaren range and try to compare it to Porsche's it would look more like this:

540C: Cayman 718
570S: Cayman 718S
600LT: Cayman GTS 4.0
620R: Cayman GT4

.

codswollop


what this proves is even though we know the models NO ONE can agree which in the range vs Porsche they are aim at.

My list still is the best :-)

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 21st August 12:37

Nice selective quoting there buddy!

If you read the rest of my post, I say i ONLY add the Cayman in there to demonstrate that the Sports Series and Super Series are DIFFERENT MODELS! I did not compare the Sports Series to the Cayman range on performance grounds (mainly because a Cayman would not see which direction the Mclaren went), only on their relative positions in their manufacturers respective hierarchy, as i state that Porsche don't have anything performance equivalent to the Super Series to compare.

That is also why the next part of my post instead compares it to the Lambo range, which is more performance equivalent.

Not really that difficult to understand.

[anonymous-user]

bennno said:

Its unbelievable to think you can pick up a relatively new sports series for 2/3 of the price of an equivalent 5 -6 year hurrican or 488.

Very true. It probably reflects some public perceptions,

• What's that car? That's definitely a McLaren. Which one is it? Sorry, I've no idea.
• What engine's it got in it, Mercedes? Honda? Renault? No. So who makes the engine? Ricardo. Who?....
• How did they lose their way in F1? I'm sure they used to win championships, not drive round at the back.

I've tried very hard to persuade myself to buy a McLaren - after all, it's essentially the "new Esprit" so long awaited from Lotus. British - mid engine - V8 - F1 pedigree. McLaren and Lotus even share the same dealership at Bell & Colvill. But the McLaren bug just hasn't bitten me hard enough.

[TypeRTim]

SidewaysSi said:

Personally I see them as similar to:

Cavalier L
Cavalier GL
Cavalier CD
Cavalier Diplomat

Cavalier SRI - this is the 620R equivalent
Cavalier GSI - the Senna?

Cavalier L - 540C
Cavalier GL - 570S
Cavalier Diplomat- 570GT
Cavalier SRI - 600LT
Cavalier GSI - 620R

Carlton GSI - 720S
Lotus Carlton - 765LT

Make sense now? Good!

[anonymous-user]

650spider said:

I think by your mere mention of it, it is an opinion that you have formed of anyone with an 'expensive' car; takes me back to that bitter part again somehow.

Yup, that's poor old Sideways.

See if you can get him started on "private plates" as a Bonus for Ten!

[SidewaysSi]

650spider said:

SidewaysSi said:

Me bitter? Why do you say that? And don't you worry about my work old chap... I would concentrate on yourself rather than worrying about others.

And please tell me you aren't so inexperienced/small minded to think more expensive cars are automatically better at everything..

Edited by SidewaysSi on Friday 21st August 13:14

I don't actually worry about others tbf...odd comment; I just made a mere observation.

The bitter part was based on every McLaren post that you have ever made is negative and trying to put the brand down.

Did I mistake your humour for bitterness? If so I do apologise.

Did you actually read my reply that I have been fortunate to own and experience both a Cavalier and McLaren, or did you just skip straight to another humorous reply?

I rate both cars highly....one was way better than the other for some things, and vice versa.

A bit like most cars now i come to think of it.

I cannot recall where i posted a view that 'more expensive cars are automatically better at everything..' it certainly was not mentioned in my post; please do point out where I posted that please.

I think by your mere mention of it, it is an opinion that you have formed of anyone with an 'expensive' car; takes me back to that bitter part again somehow.

My word you are a bit sensitive about your dear McLaren aren't you? Please explain why you think I "need to work a bit harder so I can get one myself"? - you are the one who started with opinions of others I think... .

Edited by SidewaysSi on Friday 21st August 15:50

[SidewaysSi]

rockin said:

650spider said:

I think by your mere mention of it, it is an opinion that you have formed of anyone with an 'expensive' car; takes me back to that bitter part again somehow.

Yup, that's poor old Sideways.

See if you can get him started on "private plates" as a Bonus for Ten!

Eh? Think you are confusing me with someone else old chap. And your Boxster is rear wheel drive. It really is. Promise.

[anonymous-user]

SidewaysSi said:

My word you are a bit sensitive about....

Every - single - time - it's - the - same - thing.