Why can nobody overtake?

Why can nobody overtake?

Author
Discussion

vonhosen

40,338 posts

220 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
911hope said:
havoc said:
yes

I think it's not just the messages from the government (although they hurt, ever since "Speed kills"), I think it's:-
- Modern cars - so much more cocooned from the rest of the world, particularly since aircon and soundproofing, so much easier to drive 'casually' (ultra-light PAS, good autoboxes, all the various assist functions), and so much more difficult to see out of / see the corners of. My first car (1978 Polo) had no driver aids at all, and you had to pay attention, and frequently drove with the window down, so you were always aware of what was going on around you. Second car (1987 Orion) wasn't that difficult, albeit was more comfortable and quicker.
- Modern lifestyles - the 'always on / always available' approach, particularly mobile phones. And the apparent need to multi-task all the time, usually involving a mobile phone. If driving no longer NEEDS* your whole attention and both hands, then people get bored...especially if they haven't posted on TikTok in the last 10 minutes.


* Still deserves it.
HOWEVER..... There is now so much more road traffic than in 1978 and a great deal fewer road deaths.

What is the difference? Cars are much safer.
And more besides, such as trauma care etc.

RECr

446 posts

54 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
911hope said:
havoc said:
yes

I think it's not just the messages from the government (although they hurt, ever since "Speed kills"), I think it's:-
- Modern cars - so much more cocooned from the rest of the world, particularly since aircon and soundproofing, so much easier to drive 'casually' (ultra-light PAS, good autoboxes, all the various assist functions), and so much more difficult to see out of / see the corners of. My first car (1978 Polo) had no driver aids at all, and you had to pay attention, and frequently drove with the window down, so you were always aware of what was going on around you. Second car (1987 Orion) wasn't that difficult, albeit was more comfortable and quicker.
- Modern lifestyles - the 'always on / always available' approach, particularly mobile phones. And the apparent need to multi-task all the time, usually involving a mobile phone. If driving no longer NEEDS* your whole attention and both hands, then people get bored...especially if they haven't posted on TikTok in the last 10 minutes.


* Still deserves it.
HOWEVER..... There is now so much more road traffic than in 1978 and a great deal fewer road deaths.

What is the difference? Cars are much safer.
Those who believe we need fewer cars on the road sometimes argue that we now have fewer road deaths/injuries because people are now afraid to walk and cycle.

mac96

4,030 posts

146 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
911hope said:
havoc said:
yes

I think it's not just the messages from the government (although they hurt, ever since "Speed kills"), I think it's:-
- Modern cars - so much more cocooned from the rest of the world, particularly since aircon and soundproofing, so much easier to drive 'casually' (ultra-light PAS, good autoboxes, all the various assist functions), and so much more difficult to see out of / see the corners of. My first car (1978 Polo) had no driver aids at all, and you had to pay attention, and frequently drove with the window down, so you were always aware of what was going on around you. Second car (1987 Orion) wasn't that difficult, albeit was more comfortable and quicker.
- Modern lifestyles - the 'always on / always available' approach, particularly mobile phones. And the apparent need to multi-task all the time, usually involving a mobile phone. If driving no longer NEEDS* your whole attention and both hands, then people get bored...especially if they haven't posted on TikTok in the last 10 minutes.


* Still deserves it.
HOWEVER..... There is now so much more road traffic than in 1978 and a great deal fewer road deaths.

What is the difference? Cars are much safer.
And more besides, such as trauma care etc.
There is a difference though between chances of surviving an accident without major injury, and chances of having one in the first place. All the distractions affect the latter not the former, and surely avoiding having accidents in the first place is the key, especially as some of those accidents involve people more easily harmed than car occupants.

havoc

30,423 posts

238 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
mac96 said:
There is a difference though between chances of surviving an accident without major injury, and chances of having one in the first place. All the distractions affect the latter not the former, and surely avoiding having accidents in the first place is the key, especially as some of those accidents involve people more easily harmed than car occupants.
This.

Just because you're less likely to be permanently affected if you fk up while driving, does not give you any excuse to be blase about it.

(Except it would appear to, for many...)

RECr

446 posts

54 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
havoc said:
mac96 said:
There is a difference though between chances of surviving an accident without major injury, and chances of having one in the first place. All the distractions affect the latter not the former, and surely avoiding having accidents in the first place is the key, especially as some of those accidents involve people more easily harmed than car occupants.
This.

Just because you're less likely to be permanently affected if you fk up while driving, does not give you any excuse to be blase about it.

(Except it would appear to, for many...)
yes

vonhosen

40,338 posts

220 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
mac96 said:
vonhosen said:
911hope said:
havoc said:
yes

I think it's not just the messages from the government (although they hurt, ever since "Speed kills"), I think it's:-
- Modern cars - so much more cocooned from the rest of the world, particularly since aircon and soundproofing, so much easier to drive 'casually' (ultra-light PAS, good autoboxes, all the various assist functions), and so much more difficult to see out of / see the corners of. My first car (1978 Polo) had no driver aids at all, and you had to pay attention, and frequently drove with the window down, so you were always aware of what was going on around you. Second car (1987 Orion) wasn't that difficult, albeit was more comfortable and quicker.
- Modern lifestyles - the 'always on / always available' approach, particularly mobile phones. And the apparent need to multi-task all the time, usually involving a mobile phone. If driving no longer NEEDS* your whole attention and both hands, then people get bored...especially if they haven't posted on TikTok in the last 10 minutes.


* Still deserves it.
HOWEVER..... There is now so much more road traffic than in 1978 and a great deal fewer road deaths.

What is the difference? Cars are much safer.
And more besides, such as trauma care etc.
There is a difference though between chances of surviving an accident without major injury, and chances of having one in the first place. All the distractions affect the latter not the former, and surely avoiding having accidents in the first place is the key, especially as some of those accidents involve people more easily harmed than car occupants.
confused

My answer was addressing the question in the previous answer, the differences that result in fewer road deaths.
It wasn't about anything else or suggesting that it makes any collision somehow OK.

popeyewhite

20,501 posts

123 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
There is a new bypass near me. As I live in a semi-rural area the road is sometimes used by agricultural vehicles, but rarely tractors. Sheep/cattletrucks etc. It's a NSL road, single carriageway with excellent visibility. It's almost arrow straight for 4 miles. Many times I've been stuck behind a row of cars following a farm truck at 35 mph. There is no gap large enough between the following cars to leapfrog past them, and the car behind the truck won't overtake. So we st there whilst the livestock glare at us. Cars do the dance - pull out a bit have a look, deem it far too risky (it isn't obvs) and pull l back in. This often goes on for the whole four miles with the queue moving like a snake along the road as people peep then bottle it.

Yesterday I followed, in fourth position, a chap in an old 540i. He popped his head out and looked several times, but couldn't quite summon the courage. I overtook the lot and glanced back to view the carnage I'd wrought only to see the 540i pulling out and following!

Yesssss!

mac96

4,030 posts

146 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
mac96 said:
vonhosen said:
911hope said:
havoc said:
yes

I think it's not just the messages from the government (although they hurt, ever since "Speed kills"), I think it's:-
- Modern cars - so much more cocooned from the rest of the world, particularly since aircon and soundproofing, so much easier to drive 'casually' (ultra-light PAS, good autoboxes, all the various assist functions), and so much more difficult to see out of / see the corners of. My first car (1978 Polo) had no driver aids at all, and you had to pay attention, and frequently drove with the window down, so you were always aware of what was going on around you. Second car (1987 Orion) wasn't that difficult, albeit was more comfortable and quicker.
- Modern lifestyles - the 'always on / always available' approach, particularly mobile phones. And the apparent need to multi-task all the time, usually involving a mobile phone. If driving no longer NEEDS* your whole attention and both hands, then people get bored...especially if they haven't posted on TikTok in the last 10 minutes.


* Still deserves it.
HOWEVER..... There is now so much more road traffic than in 1978 and a great deal fewer road deaths.

What is the difference? Cars are much safer.
And more besides, such as trauma care etc.
There is a difference though between chances of surviving an accident without major injury, and chances of having one in the first place. All the distractions affect the latter not the former, and surely avoiding having accidents in the first place is the key, especially as some of those accidents involve people more easily harmed than car occupants.
confused

My answer was addressing the question in the previous answer, the differences that result in fewer road deaths.
It wasn't about anything else or suggesting that it makes any collision somehow OK.
I wasn't trying to say that you were suggesting any such thing, sorry if my post looked that way.

vonhosen

40,338 posts

220 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
mac96 said:
vonhosen said:
mac96 said:
vonhosen said:
911hope said:
havoc said:
yes

I think it's not just the messages from the government (although they hurt, ever since "Speed kills"), I think it's:-
- Modern cars - so much more cocooned from the rest of the world, particularly since aircon and soundproofing, so much easier to drive 'casually' (ultra-light PAS, good autoboxes, all the various assist functions), and so much more difficult to see out of / see the corners of. My first car (1978 Polo) had no driver aids at all, and you had to pay attention, and frequently drove with the window down, so you were always aware of what was going on around you. Second car (1987 Orion) wasn't that difficult, albeit was more comfortable and quicker.
- Modern lifestyles - the 'always on / always available' approach, particularly mobile phones. And the apparent need to multi-task all the time, usually involving a mobile phone. If driving no longer NEEDS* your whole attention and both hands, then people get bored...especially if they haven't posted on TikTok in the last 10 minutes.


* Still deserves it.
HOWEVER..... There is now so much more road traffic than in 1978 and a great deal fewer road deaths.

What is the difference? Cars are much safer.
And more besides, such as trauma care etc.
There is a difference though between chances of surviving an accident without major injury, and chances of having one in the first place. All the distractions affect the latter not the former, and surely avoiding having accidents in the first place is the key, especially as some of those accidents involve people more easily harmed than car occupants.
confused

My answer was addressing the question in the previous answer, the differences that result in fewer road deaths.
It wasn't about anything else or suggesting that it makes any collision somehow OK.
I wasn't trying to say that you were suggesting any such thing, sorry if my post looked that way.
OK, thank you smile

Pan Pan Pan

10,070 posts

114 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
911hope said:
havoc said:
yes

I think it's not just the messages from the government (although they hurt, ever since "Speed kills"), I think it's:-
- Modern cars - so much more cocooned from the rest of the world, particularly since aircon and soundproofing, so much easier to drive 'casually' (ultra-light PAS, good autoboxes, all the various assist functions), and so much more difficult to see out of / see the corners of. My first car (1978 Polo) had no driver aids at all, and you had to pay attention, and frequently drove with the window down, so you were always aware of what was going on around you. Second car (1987 Orion) wasn't that difficult, albeit was more comfortable and quicker.
- Modern lifestyles - the 'always on / always available' approach, particularly mobile phones. And the apparent need to multi-task all the time, usually involving a mobile phone. If driving no longer NEEDS* your whole attention and both hands, then people get bored...especially if they haven't posted on TikTok in the last 10 minutes.


* Still deserves it.
HOWEVER..... There is now so much more road traffic than in 1978 and a great deal fewer road deaths.

What is the difference? Cars are much safer.
And more besides, such as trauma care etc.
There is also the difference between a car `driver' and a car `user' the two are not the same.
Some, especially those who like and appreciate cars, tend to take pride in their vehicles `and' in the way they drive them.
To others cars (no matter how basic or expensive) are just another notch on their white goods list, and they apply little or no more interest in driving them properly, than they apply to using their washing machine, fridge freezer, tumble dryer etc. This type are just car `users'.

James6112

4,730 posts

31 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
Pan Pan Pan said:
There is also the difference between a car `driver' and a car `user' the two are not the same.
Some, especially those who like and appreciate cars, tend to take pride in their vehicles `and' in the way they drive them.
To others cars (no matter how basic or expensive) are just another notch on their white goods list, and they apply little or no more interest in driving them properly, than they apply to using their washing machine, fridge freezer, tumble dryer etc. This type are just car `users'.
Quite a bit of ‘snobbery’ on show there
Anyone behind the wheel is a driver

popeyewhite

20,501 posts

123 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
James6112 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
There is also the difference between a car `driver' and a car `user' the two are not the same.
Some, especially those who like and appreciate cars, tend to take pride in their vehicles `and' in the way they drive them.
To others cars (no matter how basic or expensive) are just another notch on their white goods list, and they apply little or no more interest in driving them properly, than they apply to using their washing machine, fridge freezer, tumble dryer etc. This type are just car `users'.
Quite a bit of ‘snobbery’ on show there
Anyone behind the wheel is a driver
You're right but I'm sure you knew what he meant. Some take pride in doing something well, others just use s form of transport... .

havoc

30,423 posts

238 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
popeyewhite said:
You're right but I'm sure you knew what he meant. Some take pride in doing something well, others just use s form of transport... .
thumbup Agreed.

Worse, I'll wager a lot of those buying more powerful machinery now do it for the image / 'show off' points, rather than for what the vehicle can do / is designed for. So there you have someone with 300-400bhp under their right foot who doesn't give a st any which way...I suppose in that regard all the ESP/ESC/etc ARE keeping people safe...everyone around them! biggrin

dnhc

47 posts

181 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
tarquin274 said:
Maybe is a lost art nowadays but what is it with sitting in a queue of 20-30 cars doing 15-20 mph because the muppet at the front is incapable of safely overtaking a slow moving cyclist or tractor despite perfect visibility and a long straight wide road with minimal oncoming ??

The queuing cars never seem to leave much room between them either leading to excited reactions when you have to “make room” in order to queue jump, or just wait in line forever like a pleb.

If you can’t overtake safely you shouldn’t be driving. Oh I’ve read enough threads to know the long established tradition of attacking the OP so no worries there, crack on... laugh
i've no problem with someone who cannot overtake, BUT hang back from the vehicle in front to allow someone to get in when doing so themselves.
my sister plans routes where she hasn't to turn right to get from a to b, satnav must have a headache.

LunarOne

5,500 posts

140 months

Saturday 18th March 2023
quotequote all
popeyewhite said:
James6112 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
There is also the difference between a car `driver' and a car `user' the two are not the same.
Some, especially those who like and appreciate cars, tend to take pride in their vehicles `and' in the way they drive them.
To others cars (no matter how basic or expensive) are just another notch on their white goods list, and they apply little or no more interest in driving them properly, than they apply to using their washing machine, fridge freezer, tumble dryer etc. This type are just car `users'.
Quite a bit of ‘snobbery’ on show there
Anyone behind the wheel is a driver
You're right but I'm sure you knew what he meant. Some take pride in doing something well, others just use s form of transport... .
I completely agree with Pan Pan Pan on this. Owning and using a frying pan or an oven does not make one a chef. Only one who is engaged in what they are doing and take pride in it so that the end result is the best that it can be is a chef, be they professional or completely amateur. The rest are cooks. Likewise, there are plenty of people who drive cars, yet take little or no interest in the quality of their driving and only care that they arrive at their destination. They are the cooks of the automotive world. There's nothing wrong with that, but I imagine that most of us on Pistonheads at least give our driving some thought and even aspire to be better drivers, even if we are not yet at Masterchef level like Ken Block (RIP), or or very own Reg Local.

Pan Pan Pan

10,070 posts

114 months

Sunday 19th March 2023
quotequote all
James6112 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
There is also the difference between a car `driver' and a car `user' the two are not the same.
Some, especially those who like and appreciate cars, tend to take pride in their vehicles `and' in the way they drive them.
To others cars (no matter how basic or expensive) are just another notch on their white goods list, and they apply little or no more interest in driving them properly, than they apply to using their washing machine, fridge freezer, tumble dryer etc. This type are just car `users'.
Quite a bit of ‘snobbery’ on show there

Anyone behind the wheel is a driver
No, they are not, they really, really are not.

Pan Pan Pan

10,070 posts

114 months

Sunday 19th March 2023
quotequote all
LunarOne said:
popeyewhite said:
James6112 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
There is also the difference between a car `driver' and a car `user' the two are not the same.
Some, especially those who like and appreciate cars, tend to take pride in their vehicles `and' in the way they drive them.
To others cars (no matter how basic or expensive) are just another notch on their white goods list, and they apply little or no more interest in driving them properly, than they apply to using their washing machine, fridge freezer, tumble dryer etc. This type are just car `users'.
Quite a bit of ‘snobbery’ on show there
Anyone behind the wheel is a driver
You're right but I'm sure you knew what he meant. Some take pride in doing something well, others just use s form of transport... .
I completely agree with Pan Pan Pan on this. Owning and using a frying pan or an oven does not make one a chef. Only one who is engaged in what they are doing and take pride in it so that the end result is the best that it can be is a chef, be they professional or completely amateur. The rest are cooks. Likewise, there are plenty of people who drive cars, yet take little or no interest in the quality of their driving and only care that they arrive at their destination. They are the cooks of the automotive world. There's nothing wrong with that, but I imagine that most of us on Pistonheads at least give our driving some thought and even aspire to be better drivers, even if we are not yet at Masterchef level like Ken Block (RIP), or or very own Reg Local.
Exactly! It just seems that some people's overview is so limited, they cannot tell the difference between someone who wants to, and tries to drive well/professionally, compared to others who really dont give a sh*t how well they drive. (Unfortunately, they are usually also the ones who actually believe that `they' are a natural driving God, without having to put in `any' effort into trying to be one.)

Drawweight

2,972 posts

119 months

Sunday 19th March 2023
quotequote all

I can dawdle along with the best of them in my car but it was good to get out on my bike for the first time this year.

Lots of overtaking and nobody seemed to mind (no flashing lights anyway, maybe they were cursing me inside the car tho)

Is it just that if you see a bike behind you that you expect an overtake sooner rather than later whereas nowadays a good overtake in a car is unusual?

popeyewhite

20,501 posts

123 months

Sunday 19th March 2023
quotequote all
Drawweight said:
I can dawdle along with the best of them in my car but it was good to get out on my bike for the first time this year.

Lots of overtaking and nobody seemed to mind (no flashing lights anyway, maybe they were cursing me inside the car tho)

Is it just that if you see a bike behind you that you expect an overtake sooner rather than later whereas nowadays a good overtake in a car is unusual?
I've experienced that, but to turn the thought on its head - I'm a biker as well and have noticed more and more car drivers are pulling to the side a little when I approach as if to ease my overtake. This is actually counter-productive because most times a. I can see better whether the overtake is on than they can and b. I'd rather they stayed exactly where they were and completely avoided any unwanted interaction in my upcoming overtake manoeuvre. Makes me nervous and it's another factor to contend with, especially when it looks like a nervy reaction to being approached quickly from the rear by a biker.

brisel

873 posts

211 months

Sunday 19th March 2023
quotequote all
popeyewhite said:
I've experienced that, but to turn the thought on its head - I'm a biker as well and have noticed more and more car drivers are pulling to the side a little when I approach as if to ease my overtake. This is actually counter-productive because most times a. I can see better whether the overtake is on than they can and b. I'd rather they stayed exactly where they were and completely avoided any unwanted interaction in my upcoming overtake manoeuvre. Makes me nervous and it's another factor to contend with, especially when it looks like a nervy reaction to being approached quickly from the rear by a biker.
Fair enough, especially on a left hand bend, but I would always prefer a sign that the driver in front has a) seen you and b) is trying to help. I’ve had enough drivers pull out in front of me when I have already begun my overtake despite my positioning and indication.