RE: Discovery Sport
Discussion
I think this is very impressive.
I’m already sold on hybrids as I previously had one (Golf GTE) for 2 years and 80k miles. Fitted into everyday life fantastically well, silently gliding about on electric for local stuff then engine kicks in for longer journeys. Obviously need somewhere at home to charge if you want to get the best out of them.
We keep toying with the idea of replacing Mrs Ballans 8 year old Freelander but it’s just too useful. I know it’s not a very PH vehicle but it really is brilliant.
I must also be way out of touch with new car prices at £45k for a base model seems a huge amount.
I’m already sold on hybrids as I previously had one (Golf GTE) for 2 years and 80k miles. Fitted into everyday life fantastically well, silently gliding about on electric for local stuff then engine kicks in for longer journeys. Obviously need somewhere at home to charge if you want to get the best out of them.
We keep toying with the idea of replacing Mrs Ballans 8 year old Freelander but it’s just too useful. I know it’s not a very PH vehicle but it really is brilliant.
I must also be way out of touch with new car prices at £45k for a base model seems a huge amount.
Usget said:
Yes. The WLTP figures are plainly not fit for purpose. Imagine you didn't know much about cars, reading the 201.8mpg figure, and putting five gallons of fuel in the car, fully expecting to cover a thousand miles... wouldn't you be a little narked?
That is an excellent point. I wonder how miles 5 gallons would get you?We're in a 150ps diesel Disco Sport at the moment and I like it. Appreciate there's extra weight, but the numbers sound like they more than make up for that.
I foolishly decided this EU6 car would work for the same 'driving style' (as JLR call it) as the EU5 Tiguan it replaced. But it quite quickly revealed it wasn't going to. Twice.
This actually sounds like the solution - EV for the school/office run and the petrol lump will kick in for the longer journeys out to family, clients, etc.
I'll never convince Mrs PB back into one though - and it was her idea in the first place!
I foolishly decided this EU6 car would work for the same 'driving style' (as JLR call it) as the EU5 Tiguan it replaced. But it quite quickly revealed it wasn't going to. Twice.
This actually sounds like the solution - EV for the school/office run and the petrol lump will kick in for the longer journeys out to family, clients, etc.
I'll never convince Mrs PB back into one though - and it was her idea in the first place!
Mouse Rat said:
Like most PHEVs these are ideal for short family trips.
Beyond that they are hopeless and only exist for low BIK and forced legislation.
Having 3 or 4 cylinders pulling 2 tonnes of landrover isn't nice.
3 cylinders plus electric totalling 400ish torques is though.Beyond that they are hopeless and only exist for low BIK and forced legislation.
Having 3 or 4 cylinders pulling 2 tonnes of landrover isn't nice.
That said I'd be nervous about taking on one of these what with JLR and complicated... (And I'm a big fan of LR.)
As TFL found with the early hybrids that needed to do 30 miles on battery only to become exempt from the congestion charge, people buy them but never bother to charge them for the paltry 30 mile all electric range, so you end up with increased emissions due to all the extra weight the ICE is lugging around.
Well thought out by TFL
Well thought out by TFL
Sulphur Man said:
Indeed.
Hybrid-wise, this is a steam engine compared to Toyota and Honda i-MMD drivetrains.
Didnt JLR say these 'new' models were designed for PHEV and EV powertrains? Marketing got a bit ahead of themselves methinks.
With the Defender 4-pot diesels being ousted within 6 months of product launch, and the Disco 5 commanding lower used prices than late Disco 4s, you have query how JLR product management is being run. Not very well, is the first answer.
How it is?Hybrid-wise, this is a steam engine compared to Toyota and Honda i-MMD drivetrains.
Didnt JLR say these 'new' models were designed for PHEV and EV powertrains? Marketing got a bit ahead of themselves methinks.
With the Defender 4-pot diesels being ousted within 6 months of product launch, and the Disco 5 commanding lower used prices than late Disco 4s, you have query how JLR product management is being run. Not very well, is the first answer.
Its pretty much identical to the Toyota PRIME systems on the Prius where 4WD was the rear motor and the RAV4 thats just come out with a 2.5 litre engine is no different (other than having less power)
Monkeylegend said:
As TFL found with the early hybrids that needed to do 30 miles on battery only to become exempt from the congestion charge, people buy them but never bother to charge them for the paltry 30 mile all electric range, so you end up with increased emissions due to all the extra weight the ICE is lugging around.
Well thought out by TFL
I think people will when they realise how much smoother, cheaper and faster a fully charged PHEV is going to be!Well thought out by TFL
Does anybody actually read the article before they start spouting their nonsense?
As if anyone uses up the battery power in it's entirety before the ICE kicks in (thus lugging the battery and electric motor around)?
From the text "the driver then given the opportunity to drive in Hybrid, Save or EV mode". So Hybrid mode uses both power sources in combination, Save uses the ICE while saving the battery power for when you arrive somewhere best to use in EV mode, and EV mode is for the short local trips.
As if anyone uses up the battery power in it's entirety before the ICE kicks in (thus lugging the battery and electric motor around)?
From the text "the driver then given the opportunity to drive in Hybrid, Save or EV mode". So Hybrid mode uses both power sources in combination, Save uses the ICE while saving the battery power for when you arrive somewhere best to use in EV mode, and EV mode is for the short local trips.
Monkeylegend said:
As TFL found with the early hybrids that needed to do 30 miles on battery only to become exempt from the congestion charge, people buy them but never bother to charge them for the paltry 30 mile all electric range, so you end up with increased emissions due to all the extra weight the ICE is lugging around.
Well thought out by TFL
The question you've got to ask yourself is who is the bigger bunch of fWell thought out by TFL
king idiots, the buyers for ignoring the option of virtually free petrol and never having to sit in traffic to find one of the diminishing number of petrol stations in the city, or TfL for pioneering this strategy without having enough common sense to realise they needed back it up with supplying the new influx of PHEVs with convenient opportunities to charge them for it to actually be worthwhileAJ5641 said:
Mr_Sukebe said:
So, Land Rover reliability mixed with complex technology.
Anyone see a potential issue here?
At least they can charge it back up for you while it's getting fixed Anyone see a potential issue here?
On a serious note, problem with the DS one here is that you can't have a 5+2 seating. I'm sure that I've seen stats that state circa 50% of DS buyers selected it for that reason alone!
These are a great introduction and alternative for JLR. We have a Range Rover Velar with the base P180 diesel engine and it's more than enough to lug this heavy beast around (I initially thought the engine might be undersized but it's absolutely fine) while averaging about 38-40 mpg in 70% city and 30% motorway use. If we had a PHEV I can only imagine the benefits as our city usage and short journeys (under 15 miles usually) would be excellent.
I know the heavier Range Rovers have a P400e option with a 2.0L 4 cylinder but it would also be great to have a P500e PHEV version using the new straight 6 as a counterpart.
Also, we've done about 10,000 miles in the Velar and it's had absolutely no issues or electrical glitches. Perhaps it's because we didn't spec some of the gadgets like air suspension, laser lights and rear climate control and rear heated seats. Either way, I initially did not want to buy the Velar due to the reputation of JLR, but my partner loved the car and so far it's been brilliant.
I know the heavier Range Rovers have a P400e option with a 2.0L 4 cylinder but it would also be great to have a P500e PHEV version using the new straight 6 as a counterpart.
Also, we've done about 10,000 miles in the Velar and it's had absolutely no issues or electrical glitches. Perhaps it's because we didn't spec some of the gadgets like air suspension, laser lights and rear climate control and rear heated seats. Either way, I initially did not want to buy the Velar due to the reputation of JLR, but my partner loved the car and so far it's been brilliant.
Usget said:
Roy m said:
Isn't it time we had a 'real' measure of hybrid economy. Surely it would be easy to publish consumption figures for 50 miles, 100 miles and 250 miles so you can assess real world consumption. Or do they really just not want us to know?
Yes. The WLTP figures are plainly not fit for purpose. Imagine you didn't know much about cars, reading the 201.8mpg figure, and putting five gallons of fuel in the car, fully expecting to cover a thousand miles... wouldn't you be a little narked? My sister has the i pace and does about 20k pa in it, charges it in the driveway every evening. She did have the outlander before for the simple reason that it was cheap as a company car but I did try to explain how to drive it to get the best out of it but she just ended up driving a battery around and thus getting terrible fuel economy.
Mouse Rat said:
Like most PHEVs these are ideal for short family trips.
Beyond that they are hopeless and only exist for low BIK and forced legislation.
Having 3 or 4 cylinders pulling 2 tonnes of landrover isn't nice.
I gather that’s why they mated they engine to an electric motor and a HV battery.Beyond that they are hopeless and only exist for low BIK and forced legislation.
Having 3 or 4 cylinders pulling 2 tonnes of landrover isn't nice.
I could swear it got a mention in the article.
There's no real information in this article about what it's like to drive. The photograps are from JLR's marketing library. The cars featured are not known to DVLC. Did they actually have a car or did JLR marketing write this? Some of the turns of phrase are very similar to Autocar's watery review of the DS. And, oh, wait a minute. Their car isn't pictured, either, just the same stock artwork of 137YEK. At least they weren't stupid enough to show pictures of WDX203. Don't insult our intelligence.
Meanwhile it has some real issues, apart from the fact that they lied to the world about the WTLP data for 6 months.
The front wheels can only be driven by a 200HP mild hybrid engine, no electric power at the front.
The back wheels are driven only by a 109HP electric motor because there's no prop shaft.
When the wall-charger power has gone this effectively becomes a 2WD 200HP petrol car.
The whole point of buying a hybrid is that it reduces emissions by reducing fuel burn across the whole drive cycle. A car that can achieve low fuel burn and low CO2 emissions only for the first 27 miles of every journey quickly becomes more polluting and more expensive to run than a diesel or conventional power-split petrol hybrid.
Meanwhile it has some real issues, apart from the fact that they lied to the world about the WTLP data for 6 months.
The front wheels can only be driven by a 200HP mild hybrid engine, no electric power at the front.
The back wheels are driven only by a 109HP electric motor because there's no prop shaft.
When the wall-charger power has gone this effectively becomes a 2WD 200HP petrol car.
The whole point of buying a hybrid is that it reduces emissions by reducing fuel burn across the whole drive cycle. A car that can achieve low fuel burn and low CO2 emissions only for the first 27 miles of every journey quickly becomes more polluting and more expensive to run than a diesel or conventional power-split petrol hybrid.
DisillusionedSport said:
When the wall-charger power has gone this effectively becomes a 2WD 200HP petrol car.
You might be able to discharge it eventually to the point of a derate if you really try but in reality there’s always enough capacity left in reserve to maintain the performance level. The only negative result is that it chugs through more fuel while it’s working the engine harder to recharge the battery in the moments when you aren’t flat out but you could say that of any hybrid
Never managed to get a noticeable derate on my old Panamera plug in and that was pretty old tech
Am I the only one amazed by 300BHP, 7 second 0-60, from a 1.5 litre 3pot?! I know its got the elecs, but still, that's amazing progress in technology (if reliable). I can't see how this is anything but attractive. And the price isn't exactly eye-watering for a new JLR product. I'm impressed.
The Wookie said:
Monkeylegend said:
As TFL found with the early hybrids that needed to do 30 miles on battery only to become exempt from the congestion charge, people buy them but never bother to charge them for the paltry 30 mile all electric range, so you end up with increased emissions due to all the extra weight the ICE is lugging around.
Well thought out by TFL
The question you've got to ask yourself is who is the bigger bunch of fWell thought out by TFL
king idiots, the buyers for ignoring the option of virtually free petrol and never having to sit in traffic to find one of the diminishing number of petrol stations in the city, or TfL for pioneering this strategy without having enough common sense to realise they needed back it up with supplying the new influx of PHEVs with convenient opportunities to charge them for it to actually be worthwhileThe downside is that even if the infrastructure was there to provide charging capacity for all those vehicles, which it wasn't a couple of years ago, no working driver is going to sit around potentially missing opportunities to earn money for an hour or so every time he needs to charge his battery to enable him to drive 30 miles on battery alone.
They maybe charge their cars overnight if they have access to a charger to get a cheap drive into work, but after that they won't bother.
So I would say TFL were asking drivers to do something they couldn't do anyway because of lack of chargers, but also made their cars exempt from the CC, whilst they drive around merrily all day lugging the extra weight of the batteries on an ICE.
I blame TFL for lack of foresight and planning so would say they were the bigger bunch of f
king idiots. The drivers are taking advantage of a free pass which is understandable.Edited by Monkeylegend on Wednesday 21st October 13:04
Roy m said:
Isn't it time we had a 'real' measure of hybrid economy. Surely it would be easy to publish consumption figures for 50 miles, 100 miles and 250 miles so you can assess real world consumption. Or do they really just not want us to know?
The simple solution would be to download all the real data from the customer cars each year when in for service. That is then published as real world data along with punitive fines based on how different that number is from the initial numbers stated by the company. Simple. Job done. 
At least with these cars costing £50k there aren’t going to be that many full blown ‘tards who buy one only to discover it doesn’t work for them. Most buyers are going to know that they have a drive way as opposed to having never realised that before, currently use their car most days of the week for way less than 40 miles as opposed to having no idea as to when they use their car or where they go and most will enjoy the convenience of the car also being able to do long range trips when needed without hassle as opposed to suddenly realising they commute to Mogadishu every day. It probably won’t stop compo faces cropping up in regional publications but it should maintain the zero levels of sympathy.
DisillusionedSport said:
The whole point of buying a hybrid is that it reduces emissions by reducing fuel burn across the whole drive cycle. A car that can achieve low fuel burn and low CO2 emissions only for the first 27 miles of every journey quickly becomes more polluting and more expensive to run than a diesel or conventional power-split petrol hybrid.
You are right 27 miles a day of no fuel is a huge reduction in roadside emissions...EDIT: it’s 43miles not km so don’t know why you “converted” to 27miles.
oh sorry you had somehow come to the opposite conclusion?
Edited by JonnyVTEC on Thursday 22 October 23:52
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