RE: 2021 BMW M440i xDrive | UK Review

[jl4069]

moffat said:

Another previous F32 440i owner but I had the MPPSK so mild OEM tune (360hp) and nice M Performance exhaust (pre-OPF).

The car looks odd to me, not he grill which I am slowly becoming accustomed too, but the 'tiny' wheels and very bland and almost ugly rear 3/4 without the hoffmeister kink. The car looks epic from the rear, but lost from the side.

I am not sure how or why this car has the M 'lite' badging - what's so different to the F32 440i with MPPSK? In fact the MPPSK makes the F32 sound 10x better but I concede the OPF causes that issue.

I know a dealer that has the new 440i up for £67k! Ok ok, so no-one will ever pay list for a BMW, but £67k!!!!!

This car desperately needs 20" alloys, so that's going to be anther £3.5k for some M performance wheels too.

The 48v battery and the xdrive system are adding some serious weight. The battery is ONLY there to reduce BMW CO2 emissions and there is no performance advantage so a complete waste of time to the consumer.

For me, I'll hold on to my X3M and await the new M3 Touring in 2 years with some mega Q4 2022 discounts

I’m inclined to think that the battery is likely a very small offender in the overall weight issue. Maybe it would add about 7 kilos.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/10/20171019-...

It’s is far more likely that BMW is using a lot of extra steel. BMW now appear (nor for some years) not to be a maker truly concerned with great handling, like for example Porsche is. Lord knows they won’t say a word about the weights and specifics of x materials used, beyond that they claim to add extra steel bits here and there for “reinforcement” and “extra rigidity”; which is simply a ridiculous way to double talk the real motives... like they wanted to most inexpensively improve crash test results, or the want to add considerable size to a chassis not originally designed for it; like this 4 series coupe appears to be over the related 3 series Sedan.

It’s really sad that consumers have to play guessing games about these things, while “automotive journalists” usually do little research or reporting on such issues.

There is little doubt that BMW could have made this 4 series much lighter, nimbler and more fun to drive, for a rather small sum of investment...if they wanted to. To do so they would have needed to have designed the G20 chassis well from the start. Designed it to be light, rigid and for the platform to easily allow for extended size variations. BMW did not do this. So now we are told that the 4 series has been significantly reengineered, and now is finally rigid enough that it can handle well; only after so much added material has been added. This reeks of cost cutting, and serves to highlight just how underdeveloped the G20 3 series was from the start.

Last, this notion that makers peddle with every new generation, about extra width and tire/wheel size suddenly making these cars better handling, may mean something for track times, but means nothing for making a car agile, fun to drive and good handling. How all this has managed to become lost to buyers is sad. Why can’t we have small, light, and fun to drive sedans and coupes any longer?

I know none of this will matter as all cars go electric, but it is sad to see gas cars go out like this. It was refreshing to see Evo compare several M3’s recently, and discover once again how much better the 1980’s version still is than the newer ones. And for those who say that BMW could never design such a car to meet current regs, may i refer you to the Alpine and GT-86.

Edited by jl4069 on Monday 26th October 19:02

[nickfrog]

donkeykong1 said:

"While the grilles on its nose will probably remain divisive forevermore"

In order for something to be divisive it needs to have people on two opposing sides whereas I think we can all agree that the new grille is unanimously fugly*.

• There will be always be a few that say they "like it" but these people just like to be contrarian and are probably hipsters that listen to modern music on vinyl and drink avocado tea.

That's would be a very innacurate description of me. But I quite like it. I just do, no rational explanation or thought process or desire to be contrarian. I believe that looks/design are subjective but I appreciate it's a very difficult reality to accept for many on PHers, bizarrely.

[nickfrog]

jl4069 said:

And for those who say that BMW could never design such a car to meet current regs, may i refer you to the Alpine and GT-86.

I am sure they could but they are simply not in that market. I reckon the design brief for a large 4 seater coupe is somewhat different to the constraints of a small 2+2 or a mid engine sports car. Apologies for stating the obvious.

[jl4069]

nickfrog said:

I am sure they could but they are simply not in that market. I reckon the design brief for a large 4 seater coupe is somewhat different to the constraints of a small 2+2 or a mid engine sports car. Apologies for stating the obvious.

Actually while I can appreciate your attempt at aiding me in my thinking, by suggesting I missed the “obvious” answer, likely because I was simply lost or blinkered in my thinking; I think there is rather more to this than the simple binary logic you are using to claim what should be obvious to us all.

What making modern lightweight cars, as Audi well showed years ago..
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15131128/lig...

....comes down to, is about a thousand (give or take a few hundred) euros added to the cost of manufacture per car. A number easily offset by less needed “options”. It’s funny how makers will offer tens of thousands of dollars in rather questionable “options” like carbon trim, wheels packages, paint, bigger brakes and stiffer suspension; while choosing not to offer a lighter chassis to begin with, that itself would negate the need for much of these massively overpriced options. This comes down to rather sophisticated manipulation of the consumer, so that they become so confused, and unable to put their finger of what is wrong, that they believe paying thousands extra- for what is in reality much less inherent quality, will give them a much better car.

All this could be fixed if we had publications, experts and consumer advocates, who could explain all this to consumers and allow them to realize that they are being ripped off, paying many thousands more than they need to; and these days, quite “obviously” much more money (on long years of credit no less) than most consumers actually possess. It is so sad to see millions of consumers get conned this way, especially in this age of low wages, and huge debt.

Last I’ll point out, that I notice a libertarian (let corporations lead on product, marketing, and In turn let consumers magically chose another product if they are dissatisfied, as if this is remotely possible) streak among select PH’ers, which I find fascinating in light of the fact that most live in highly socialist countries. I note of course that here in America, the land of libertarians, the vast majority pay an even higher overall price than many Western European countries do, in the form of vast poverty, poor healthcare, poor education, extraordinarily low wage growth-over many decades, and massive debt, thanks j

Edited by jl4069 on Monday 26th October 19:57

[pacdes]

Another Brave Pill.

[pacdes]

2 reviews showing black 4 series. Shows BMW are listening to public opinion on black being the best colour to hide the grill.
Little late though.

[nickfrog]

jl4069 said:

nickfrog said:

I am sure they could but they are simply not in that market. I reckon the design brief for a large 4 seater coupe is somewhat different to the constraints of a small 2+2 or a mid engine sports car. Apologies for stating the obvious.

Actually while I can appreciate your attempt at aiding me in my thinking, by suggesting I missed the “obvious” answer, likely because I was simply lost or blinkered in my thinking; I think there is rather more to this than the simple binary logic you are using to claim what should be obvious to us all.

What making modern lightweight cars, as Audi well showed years ago..
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15131128/lig...

You can buy a 4 pot 4 series, not sure what the relevance to that Audi is. Aluminium wasn't invented last Tuesday either. It's actually far more expensive to shed weight, far more than you think. That's probably why that A5 was only ever a concept.

There is no binary logic or any aid to your thinking here btw. I am just simply stating the fact that a 1,300 kgs GT86 is bound to be lighter than a far bigger 4 seater car with 4wd/auto and a I6T because of its greater physical dimensions and totally different design brief.

[jl4069]

nickfrog said:

You can buy a 4 pot 4 series, not sure what the relevance to that Audi is. Aluminium wasn't invented last Tuesday either. It's actually far more expensive to shed weight, far more than you think. That's probably why that A5 was only ever a concept.

There is no binary logic or any aid to your thinking here btw. I am just simply stating the fact that a 1,300 kgs GT86 is bound to be lighter than a far bigger 4 seater car with 4wd/auto and a I6T because of its greater physical dimensions and totally different design brief.

I’m sorry but this is obviously an area you have little idea of what you are talking about. It’s annoying when folks come on here acting like they are experts and acting as defacto forum fact checkers.
Actually most of the lightweight changes from the A5 concept already made their way to cost effective production several years ago.

https://www.searchautoparts.com/nace-automechanika...

https://www.carscoops.com/2014/12/all-new-2016-aud...

So this isn’t even a debate, much of the lightweight technology has already been proven, is most certainly economically viable, and in worldwide use. The Q7 is already almost half aluminum. How much extra would it be to add another third of aluminum to the mix, considering Audi already added nearly 50%?
It is rather frustrating when someone argues that something isn’t economically possible, when the thing they are claiming to not be possible, actually has existed for years.

The main reason Audi put this tech into their SUV is because they had to, to make their SUV somewhat good handling and fuel efficient. The other reason was that SUVs are what sell well. The cost issue just isn’t there, indeed Audi could put this into any vehicle they wish anytime. J

[ratty6464]

Wills2 said:

ratty6464 said:

I’ve got an m340i and the steering is by far the weakest link. It’s totally lacking in feel. If Porsche can make decent electric steering I don’t know why Bmw cant.

For the 440i does anyone have more info on the mild hybrid - does it add a little power off the line and give some minor torque fill?

11hp

But does that mean 11hp available from a standing start? I'd like to know if it eliminates the slight delay after hitting the throttle which the M340i suffers from

[nickfrog]

jl4069 said:

So this isn’t even a debate,

Agreed, It still doesn't change the original point about you comparing the 440i to the GT86 and being surprised one was heavier than the other. As I said, it's blindingly obvious why. Nothing to do with Audi.

jl4069 said:

It’s annoying when folks come on here acting like they are experts and acting as defacto forum fact checkers.

Agreed again, see above. It doesn't take much of an expert or much critical thinking to understand why a GT86 is lighter than a 440i.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 27th October 22:16

[Wills2]

ratty6464 said:

Wills2 said:

ratty6464 said:

I’ve got an m340i and the steering is by far the weakest link. It’s totally lacking in feel. If Porsche can make decent electric steering I don’t know why Bmw cant.

For the 440i does anyone have more info on the mild hybrid - does it add a little power off the line and give some minor torque fill?

11hp

But does that mean 11hp available from a standing start? I'd like to know if it eliminates the slight delay after hitting the throttle which the M340i suffers from

In the Joe Achilles review he mentions "electric boost" coming on the dash when he did launch control or words to that effect, you'll find it on YT.

Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 28th October 13:10

[MitchT]

NWMark said:

paint match between rear bumper and body way off

I was watching a YouTube review of the new M340i in Portimao Blue and the fuel filler cap was a noticeably different shade to the adjacent bodywork. I wonder if it's trick of the light or a consequence of the colour appearing different on different materials?

[JackReacher]

Wills2 said:

In the Joe Achilles review he mentions "electric boost" coming on the dash when he did launch control or words to that effect, you'll find it YT.

Yes from what I understand a marginal boost to power and torque, but main advantage seems to be smoothing out the stop start and better initial response.

[DonkeyApple]

ratty6464 said:

Wills2 said:

ratty6464 said:

I’ve got an m340i and the steering is by far the weakest link. It’s totally lacking in feel. If Porsche can make decent electric steering I don’t know why Bmw cant.

For the 440i does anyone have more info on the mild hybrid - does it add a little power off the line and give some minor torque fill?

11hp

But does that mean 11hp available from a standing start? I'd like to know if it eliminates the slight delay after hitting the throttle which the M340i suffers from

It would seem odd if it did as that weird hesitation is specifically added by the ECU tuners as opposed to being an engineering issue between components.

I would love to know the logic behind specifically programming the object to always assume you are coming to a halt as my poor little brain just hasn’t been able to come up with any logic for it.

[Wills2]

MitchT said:

NWMark said:

paint match between rear bumper and body way off

I was watching a YouTube review of the new M340i in Portimao Blue and the fuel filler cap was a noticeably different shade to the adjacent bodywork. I wonder if it's trick of the light or a consequence of the colour appearing different on different materials?

I think the launch car is Tanzanite blue and does change hue, depending how the light hits it the vertical surfaces can seem a different shade.

[High Roller]

It’s a t@rd, even if it does travel down the colon pretty rapidly. Actually, that’s diarrhoea isn’t it?!