RE: Rocketeer Mazda MX-5 V6 | PH Review

[TheJimi]

I'm also willing to bet that anyone in for the Rocketeer conversion will be intending on keeping the car for quite a long time.

I could be wrong on that, but I doubt it.

[unlikelymechanic]

MX-6 said:

The Boxster has been mentioned as an obvious stand-out alternative, and the S2000 too since it has a similar power output to a V6.

I was thinking of other factory options for a manual RWD 6 pot (or similar power) roadsters within a £15k budget, came up with this list:

BMW Z3 2.8/3.0
BMW Z4 2.5/3.0
Nissan 350Z 3.5 convertible
Alfa Romeo Brera Spider 3.2
Chrysler Crossfire roadster 3.2
TVR Chimera 4.0
TVR S3 2.9
Vauxhall VX220 2.0
Mercedes SLK 280/300

There looks to be some interesting options but I guess none as as light weight as a Rocketeer, apart from a VX220 which is a 4 pot turbo. Some of these listed are likely to be a fair bit cheaper though...

I think with the exception of the TVRs the others are too modern to compare with an MX5 particularly an NA. I had a Z4 for a while at the same time as my MX5 when it still a 1.6. I couldn’t justify both, I was more attached to the MX5 and as it is pretty rust free it would have been a shame to get rid of it, so i sold the Z4 and decided to fit a 3.0 to my MX5 instead to have the best of both! They are different cars completely - the mx5 is closer to an MGB than a Z4 - no airbags, ABS, traction control etc

[MX-6]

TheJimi said:

I'm also willing to bet that anyone in for the Rocketeer conversion will be intending on keeping the car for quite a long time.

I could be wrong on that, but I doubt it.

Yes I would think that given the commitment involved you would have to be quite an enthusiast for the MX5 and and set on building the ultimate development of the car really. I can't imagine it's something that anyone would do on a whim and then sell (for a loss?) 6 months later.

I do get the mentality, I've always been into modifying cars rather than spending real money on ready made options. I seriously considered buying an MX5 but actually have a modified MX6 instead because I wanted a cheap coupe with a V6 engine, heavier and WWD though (Wrong Wheel Drive).

[biggbn]

I'm just glad things like this exist AND provoke such excellent debate and divide opinion.

[MX-6]

unlikelymechanic said:

MX-6 said:

The Boxster has been mentioned as an obvious stand-out alternative, and the S2000 too since it has a similar power output to a V6.

I was thinking of other factory options for a manual RWD 6 pot (or similar power) roadsters within a £15k budget, came up with this list:

BMW Z3 2.8/3.0
BMW Z4 2.5/3.0
Nissan 350Z 3.5 convertible
Alfa Romeo Brera Spider 3.2
Chrysler Crossfire roadster 3.2
TVR Chimera 4.0
TVR S3 2.9
Vauxhall VX220 2.0
Mercedes SLK 280/300

There looks to be some interesting options but I guess none as as light weight as a Rocketeer, apart from a VX220 which is a 4 pot turbo. Some of these listed are likely to be a fair bit cheaper though...

I think with the exception of the TVRs the others are too modern to compare with an MX5 particularly an NA. I had a Z4 for a while at the same time as my MX5 when it still a 1.6. I couldn’t justify both, I was more attached to the MX5 and as it is pretty rust free it would have been a shame to get rid of it, so i sold the Z4 and decided to fit a 3.0 to my MX5 instead to have the best of both! They are different cars completely - the mx5 is closer to an MGB than a Z4 - no airbags, ABS, traction control etc

Fair point about those suggested alternatives being more modern, I do prefer driving older cars myself particularly those from the late '80s/early to mid' 90s period, I just think its a bit of a sweet spot. Good pic, looks a very nice MX5 example.

Maybe not really relevant but I've an MX6 V6 instead, with lots of mod's including coilovers, big brakes, stainless zorst, etc. Not a popular choice but I think these are under-rated, enjoy mine anyhow...

Edited by MX-6 on Tuesday 12th January 11:05

[PushedDover]

But surely no comparison in the FWD vs. RWD and girth stakes?

[MX-6]

PushedDover said:

But surely no comparison in the FWD vs. RWD and girth stakes?

It's FWD yes, which I enjoy as well as RWD, so it's something different and obviously not like for like. If by girth you mean engine power, I'm addressing that by working on fitting the turbo conversion that I developed for my other one.

Edited by MX-6 on Wednesday 6th January 21:19

[Sway]

TheJimi said:

I'm also willing to bet that anyone in for the Rocketeer conversion will be intending on keeping the car for quite a long time.

I could be wrong on that, but I doubt it.

This, absolutely. You just don't bother doing work to this level on a flipper.

On the "MX5 enthusiast" front, maybe not... I came to having a MX5 due to it being one of the available cars that focussed on the things I really value.

The fact they're pretty common and cheap just made it easier (especially compared to my prior GTM Libra which I utterly adored, but had a couple of weeks in my 40k miles with it where I was having to find a local fabricator/etc. to make me up a part or bracket to replace something that had broken - no parts catalogues and marque specialists!).

Thing is, they're really bloody good. OK, most aren't - because they're in some way knackered or getting there.

For me, if there are people comfortable with spending £150k on a stepnose guilia from Alfaholics (and I most certainly would, and am far from an Alfisti) or £1M on a Singer (again, so would even though the 911 generally leaves me cold) - then £20k on a Rocketeer on the principle of what it is rather than being a specific 'fan' of the base model isn't the realms of fantasy.

[TheJimi]

Sway said:

TheJimi said:

I'm also willing to bet that anyone in for the Rocketeer conversion will be intending on keeping the car for quite a long time.

I could be wrong on that, but I doubt it.

This, absolutely. You just don't bother doing work to this level on a flipper.

On the "MX5 enthusiast" front, maybe not... I came to having a MX5 due to it being one of the available cars that focussed on the things I really value.

The fact they're pretty common and cheap just made it easier (especially compared to my prior GTM Libra which I utterly adored, but had a couple of weeks in my 40k miles with it where I was having to find a local fabricator/etc. to make me up a part or bracket to replace something that had broken - no parts catalogues and marque specialists!).

Thing is, they're really bloody good. OK, most aren't - because they're in some way knackered or getting there.

For me, if there are people comfortable with spending £150k on a stepnose guilia from Alfaholics (and I most certainly would, and am far from an Alfisti) or £1M on a Singer (again, so would even though the 911 generally leaves me cold) - then £20k on a Rocketeer on the principle of what it is rather than being a specific 'fan' of the base model isn't the realms of fantasy.

Aye, fair points there, and I agree.

As to your last point, as a riposte to my previous post, I agree with that also.

[ShortBeardy]

the NA power, the V6 noise, mass and `usability' place it in a near unique place.
convenient enough and lockable when compared with something lighter, and yet lighter than anything else with similar convenience. This probably breaks down when considering older cars and, dare I say it, a breathed on TR8 isn't that far off the weight/power/convenience (but live axle). Everything newer is heavier.
Elise V6 would be a nice option if the price were in the same price ballpark...

[Taylor James]

Looks like a great conversion. I can't get over a personal and probably quite irrational dislike of conversions but I admire anything well done and it must be very satisfying for MX owners who now have the car they always wanted. Nice story about the guy behind Rocketeer too.

[Mr Tidy]

unlikelymechanic said:

MX-6 said:

The Boxster has been mentioned as an obvious stand-out alternative, and the S2000 too since it has a similar power output to a V6.

I was thinking of other factory options for a manual RWD 6 pot (or similar power) roadsters within a £15k budget, came up with this list:

BMW Z3 2.8/3.0
BMW Z4 2.5/3.0
Nissan 350Z 3.5 convertible
Alfa Romeo Brera Spider 3.2
Chrysler Crossfire roadster 3.2
TVR Chimera 4.0
TVR S3 2.9
Vauxhall VX220 2.0
Mercedes SLK 280/300

There looks to be some interesting options but I guess none as as light weight as a Rocketeer, apart from a VX220 which is a 4 pot turbo. Some of these listed are likely to be a fair bit cheaper though...

I think with the exception of the TVRs the others are too modern to compare with an MX5 particularly an NA. I had a Z4 for a while at the same time as my MX5 when it still a 1.6. I couldn’t justify both, I was more attached to the MX5 and as it is pretty rust free it would have been a shame to get rid of it, so i sold the Z4 and decided to fit a 3.0 to my MX5 instead to have the best of both! They are different cars completely - the mx5 is closer to an MGB than a Z4 - no airbags, ABS, traction control etc

That may be true of yours, but PH tried a post 2001 MX5 so not too much earlier than those other examples.

And given that turnkey conversions start at £12,500 you are almost getting into Z4M Roadster territory on pricing, but one of those gives you 343PS of natural aspiration as well as T/C that can be turned off completely and an LSD - but ABS and airbags if it all goes wrong!

Still I know different cars appeal to different people so for a die-hard MX5 fan these conversions seem like a great option.

[gofasterrosssco]

Elatino1 said:

vx220 said:

Not read all the way through the thread yet, but what about this engine in an rx8?

Perfect daily?

Now that would be of more interest to me despite being slower. It's a great chassis.

Edited by Elatino1 on Saturday 2nd January 11:59

You can buy a complete kit from a company in the US:

https://www.keislerautomation.com/

I have sourced an ECU and some other small parts for an LFX engine project (I imported a nearly new LFX myself). There is also a chap running one somewhere in Europe, so track and time-attack style stuff, and seems to go / sound well..

There is quite a good breakdown and comparison of a converted RX-8 against some similar cost performance cars, and a converted car does come across as quite a compeling case if competitely-priced performance is you primary goal..

[Sway]

gofasterrosssco said:

Elatino1 said:

vx220 said:

Not read all the way through the thread yet, but what about this engine in an rx8?

Perfect daily?

Now that would be of more interest to me despite being slower. It's a great chassis.

Edited by Elatino1 on Saturday 2nd January 11:59

You can buy a complete kit from a company in the US:

https://www.keislerautomation.com/

I have sourced an ECU and some other small parts for an LFX engine project (I imported a nearly new LFX myself). There is also a chap running one somewhere in Europe, so track and time-attack style stuff, and seems to go / sound well..

There is quite a good breakdown and comparison of a converted RX-8 against some similar cost performance cars, and a converted car does come across as quite a compeling case if competitely-priced performance is you primary goal..

LFX is a really interesting engine. Packaging seems incredible, especially with the in block exhaust manifolds.

[gofasterrosssco]

Sway said:

gofasterrosssco said:

Elatino1 said:

vx220 said:

Not read all the way through the thread yet, but what about this engine in an rx8?

Perfect daily?

Now that would be of more interest to me despite being slower. It's a great chassis.

Edited by Elatino1 on Saturday 2nd January 11:59

You can buy a complete kit from a company in the US:

https://www.keislerautomation.com/

I have sourced an ECU and some other small parts for an LFX engine project (I imported a nearly new LFX myself). There is also a chap running one somewhere in Europe, so track and time-attack style stuff, and seems to go / sound well..

There is quite a good breakdown and comparison of a converted RX-8 against some similar cost performance cars, and a converted car does come across as quite a compeling case if competitely-priced performance is you primary goal..

LFX is a really interesting engine. Packaging seems incredible, especially with the in block exhaust manifolds.

The packaging and some compatablity with my VX220 was the reason I got one. Dry weight (as measured with a load cell) was 152kg with manifolds / throttle body, all coils etc, but not including starter / alt / loom / ecu / flywheel. Thats pretty competitive as you're looking at 160-165kg complete..

330-340bhp NA engine with just a decent intake and exhaust, and map tweak. Over square too, so apparently likes to rev.. Its smaller, unloved, 3.0L version (LFW) also looks appealing with ~270bhp standard and an even shorter stroke..

[Bryans69]

Sway said:

This, absolutely. You just don't bother doing work to this level on a flipper.

On the "MX5 enthusiast" front, maybe not... I came to having a MX5 due to it being one of the available cars that focussed on the things I really value.

The fact they're pretty common and cheap just made it easier (especially compared to my prior GTM Libra which I utterly adored, but had a couple of weeks in my 40k miles with it where I was having to find a local fabricator/etc. to make me up a part or bracket to replace something that had broken - no parts catalogues and marque specialists!).

Thing is, they're really bloody good. OK, most aren't - because they're in some way knackered or getting there.

For me, if there are people comfortable with spending £150k on a stepnose guilia from Alfaholics (and I most certainly would, and am far from an Alfisti) or £1M on a Singer (again, so would even though the 911 generally leaves me cold) - then £20k on a Rocketeer on the principle of what it is rather than being a specific 'fan' of the base model isn't the realms of fantasy.

Completely agree. It's the sort of thing you do because you want a project / keeper, rather than look at it and go "we'll, I could get Boxster instead"

A guy at work has an MX5 which he has turbo charged (and he actually prefers to the 911 he recently sold). He did it about the time that the Rocketeer project videos were first appearing on youtube, and even though I'm no MX5 fan boy, I liked the idea of it, and preferred it to the turbo. In the end I've decided, rightly or wrongly, to stick a V8 in my MGB. I know it doesn't compare from driving point of view, but from a project / long term love they are not a million miles apart

[MarkwG]

Bryans69 said:

Sway said:

This, absolutely. You just don't bother doing work to this level on a flipper.

On the "MX5 enthusiast" front, maybe not... I came to having a MX5 due to it being one of the available cars that focussed on the things I really value.

The fact they're pretty common and cheap just made it easier (especially compared to my prior GTM Libra which I utterly adored, but had a couple of weeks in my 40k miles with it where I was having to find a local fabricator/etc. to make me up a part or bracket to replace something that had broken - no parts catalogues and marque specialists!).

Thing is, they're really bloody good. OK, most aren't - because they're in some way knackered or getting there.

For me, if there are people comfortable with spending £150k on a stepnose guilia from Alfaholics (and I most certainly would, and am far from an Alfisti) or £1M on a Singer (again, so would even though the 911 generally leaves me cold) - then £20k on a Rocketeer on the principle of what it is rather than being a specific 'fan' of the base model isn't the realms of fantasy.

Completely agree. It's the sort of thing you do because you want a project / keeper, rather than look at it and go "we'll, I could get Boxster instead"

A guy at work has an MX5 which he has turbo charged (and he actually prefers to the 911 he recently sold). He did it about the time that the Rocketeer project videos were first appearing on youtube, and even though I'm no MX5 fan boy, I liked the idea of it, and preferred it to the turbo. In the end I've decided, rightly or wrongly, to stick a V8 in my MGB. I know it doesn't compare from driving point of view, but from a project / long term love they are not a million miles apart

Wouldn't you be better off just selling it & buying an MGB V8...?

[Bryans69]

MarkwG said:

Bryans69 said:

Sway said:

This, absolutely. You just don't bother doing work to this level on a flipper.

On the "MX5 enthusiast" front, maybe not... I came to having a MX5 due to it being one of the available cars that focussed on the things I really value.

The fact they're pretty common and cheap just made it easier (especially compared to my prior GTM Libra which I utterly adored, but had a couple of weeks in my 40k miles with it where I was having to find a local fabricator/etc. to make me up a part or bracket to replace something that had broken - no parts catalogues and marque specialists!).

Thing is, they're really bloody good. OK, most aren't - because they're in some way knackered or getting there.

For me, if there are people comfortable with spending £150k on a stepnose guilia from Alfaholics (and I most certainly would, and am far from an Alfisti) or £1M on a Singer (again, so would even though the 911 generally leaves me cold) - then £20k on a Rocketeer on the principle of what it is rather than being a specific 'fan' of the base model isn't the realms of fantasy.

Completely agree. It's the sort of thing you do because you want a project / keeper, rather than look at it and go "we'll, I could get Boxster instead"

A guy at work has an MX5 which he has turbo charged (and he actually prefers to the 911 he recently sold). He did it about the time that the Rocketeer project videos were first appearing on youtube, and even though I'm no MX5 fan boy, I liked the idea of it, and preferred it to the turbo. In the end I've decided, rightly or wrongly, to stick a V8 in my MGB. I know it doesn't compare from driving point of view, but from a project / long term love they are not a million miles apart

Wouldn't you be better off just selling it & buying an MGB V8...?

I'd probably be better off selling it and buying a lot of things

They never made a roadster, only the GT

[MarkwG]

Bryans69 said:

MarkwG said:

Bryans69 said:

Sway said:

This, absolutely. You just don't bother doing work to this level on a flipper.

On the "MX5 enthusiast" front, maybe not... I came to having a MX5 due to it being one of the available cars that focussed on the things I really value.

The fact they're pretty common and cheap just made it easier (especially compared to my prior GTM Libra which I utterly adored, but had a couple of weeks in my 40k miles with it where I was having to find a local fabricator/etc. to make me up a part or bracket to replace something that had broken - no parts catalogues and marque specialists!).

Thing is, they're really bloody good. OK, most aren't - because they're in some way knackered or getting there.

For me, if there are people comfortable with spending £150k on a stepnose guilia from Alfaholics (and I most certainly would, and am far from an Alfisti) or £1M on a Singer (again, so would even though the 911 generally leaves me cold) - then £20k on a Rocketeer on the principle of what it is rather than being a specific 'fan' of the base model isn't the realms of fantasy.

Completely agree. It's the sort of thing you do because you want a project / keeper, rather than look at it and go "we'll, I could get Boxster instead"

A guy at work has an MX5 which he has turbo charged (and he actually prefers to the 911 he recently sold). He did it about the time that the Rocketeer project videos were first appearing on youtube, and even though I'm no MX5 fan boy, I liked the idea of it, and preferred it to the turbo. In the end I've decided, rightly or wrongly, to stick a V8 in my MGB. I know it doesn't compare from driving point of view, but from a project / long term love they are not a million miles apart

Wouldn't you be better off just selling it & buying an MGB V8...?

I'd probably be better off selling it and buying a lot of things

They never made a roadster, only the GT

[biggbn]

Bryans69 said:

Completely agree. It's the sort of thing you do because you want a project / keeper, rather than look at it and go "we'll, I could get Boxster instead"

A guy at work has an MX5 which he has turbo charged (and he actually prefers to the 911 he recently sold). He did it about the time that the Rocketeer project videos were first appearing on youtube, and even though I'm no MX5 fan boy, I liked the idea of it, and preferred it to the turbo. In the end I've decided, rightly or wrongly, to stick a V8 in my MGB. I know it doesn't compare from driving point of view, but from a project / long term love they are not a million miles apart

Now that I get, somehow a v8 just goes with an old MG. I have a rather perverse liking for the unloved MGC though, so what do I know!?