RE: The best electric cars to buy in 2021

[ExecutiveAction]

All these things are not really cars as we knew them and not worth a premium for sure. Why are Pistonheads promoting this?

Edited by ExecutiveAction on Sunday 4th April 22:48

[ExecutiveAction]

I mean, these things don’t have pistons. So why are they on Pistonheads?

[DonkeyApple]

ExecutiveAction said:

I mean, these things don’t have pistons. So why are they on Pistonheads?

The Daily Mail isn't a daily mail anymore because the world moves forward. If those thickos can cope with it then I'm sure PHers can cope with some cars not having pistons.

[jjwilde]

ifmorris said:

I hope that ultimately the battery will be dumped in favour of the hydrogen fuel cell. The experience of building electric transmissions will not be wasted and should continue.
I will not be buying a battery car and sticking to diesel, just had 5 yrs with a Maserati Ghibli with a beautiful 6 cyl one which easily topped 40 mpg. I also believe the ic engine could be further cleaned up.
Remember battery cars still consume energy none of which is entirely carbon free. Much more to say on battery disposal etc, but another time!

Ian Morris CEng FIMechE

Jesus Christ. Imagine digging up this thread only to post the old hydrogen nonsense, then try to push some sketchy anti-EV guff.

Hey Mr Ian Morris perhaps you'd like to tell us how hydrogen is made and how much energy that requires...

[DonkeyApple]

jjwilde said:

Jesus Christ. Imagine digging up this thread only to post the old hydrogen nonsense, then try to push some sketchy anti-EV guff.

Hey Mr Ian Morris perhaps you'd like to tell us how hydrogen is made and how much energy that requires...

Or the infrastructure required to distribute such a chemical to the retail market? In fact, no need to even bother with that if you start with explaining the energy density of a fuel with atomic number of 1.

Mechanical engineers should leave chemistry and economics to the professionals.

[swisstoni]

jjwilde said:

ifmorris said:

I hope that ultimately the battery will be dumped in favour of the hydrogen fuel cell. The experience of building electric transmissions will not be wasted and should continue.
I will not be buying a battery car and sticking to diesel, just had 5 yrs with a Maserati Ghibli with a beautiful 6 cyl one which easily topped 40 mpg. I also believe the ic engine could be further cleaned up.
Remember battery cars still consume energy none of which is entirely carbon free. Much more to say on battery disposal etc, but another time!

Ian Morris CEng FIMechE

Jesus Christ. Imagine digging up this thread only to post the old hydrogen nonsense, then try to push some sketchy anti-EV guff.

Hey Mr Ian Morris perhaps you'd like to tell us how hydrogen is made and how much energy that requires...

Imagine not arguing your point like a child.

[ddom]

Imagine taking about cars, rather than a load of boring ste regarding energy density

[NDA]

DoubleD said:

so called said:

I took that step a couple of years ago.
Still love my Tuscan but until lock down was doing a 100 mile daily commute in my i3 followed by an i3S.
Great fun and saves about 400 a month (against previous petrol costs) when commuting.

Are you still saving when you take into account cost to change? Higher depreciation for a higher value car? Installing a charge point?

Buying any new car is a chunk of change whatever you buy.... My Range Rover costs about 32p a mile (not including the high cost of servicing, road tax etc), my Tesla is about 3p a mile and there's no servicing or road tax. Depreciation is less than my Bentley, Jaguar or Range Rover - in fact they seem to hold their value quite well, although that's not an influence for any car I buy. Charge point is about £600 - I reckon I get that back very quickly on fuel saving.

I am not an evangelist for EV's, far from it. They are about as exciting as owning a new fridge. But for 99% of the motoring I do - which is on roads full of other cars, caravans, cameras or cyclists - they're easy, comfortable, cheap and rapid. I will keep my V8's for the rare days I can enjoy a journey.

Rolex Vs Casio. Both have their place.

[DonkeyApple]

NDA said:

DoubleD said:

so called said:

I took that step a couple of years ago.
Still love my Tuscan but until lock down was doing a 100 mile daily commute in my i3 followed by an i3S.
Great fun and saves about 400 a month (against previous petrol costs) when commuting.

Are you still saving when you take into account cost to change? Higher depreciation for a higher value car? Installing a charge point?

Buying any new car is a chunk of change whatever you buy.... My Range Rover costs about 32p a mile (not including the high cost of servicing, road tax etc), my Tesla is about 3p a mile and there's no servicing or road tax. Depreciation is less than my Bentley, Jaguar or Range Rover - in fact they seem to hold their value quite well, although that's not an influence for any car I buy. Charge point is about £600 - I reckon I get that back very quickly on fuel saving.

I am not an evangelist for EV's, far from it. They are about as exciting as owning a new fridge. But for 99% of the motoring I do - which is on roads full of other cars, caravans, cameras or cyclists - they're easy, comfortable, cheap and rapid. I will keep my V8's for the rare days I can enjoy a journey.

Rolex Vs Casio. Both have their place.

This is the key. While there is lots of noise from apex consumer idiots who are driven by brand obsessions and powered by debt, the reality is that the majority of people buying EVs are doing so because for the specific purpose at hand the product is economically superior, those economies being not just money but time, convenience, access etc.

The i3 strikes me as one of the best 'bag for life' wagons on sale today. It should last for years longer than a petrol runabout and cost less to maintain while costing far less to run. I'm not convinced Tesla's will structurally outlive ICE cars, they are built like TVRs and I'm not convinced that doing a few miles a day but perpetually lugging around the massive blocks of Victorian energy bricks is really all that clever. Weirdly, the S in the Home Counties gives off a bit of an XJ6 vibe when you see the old boys driving them.

But either way that Goldilocks zone where EVs that are absolutely crippled by their rubbish energy storage problems are genuinely a better option to ICE is continuing to widen. It's still very small and narrow but the BIK changes will double the number of EVs as will the phasing out of benefits on hybrids. For the vast majority a 1L Honda Jazz remains the smarter choice with its sensible price, longevity, and small footprint but for those who wish to spend more then EVs will continue to very slowly expand their usability.

The only real question is how long EV evangelism will remain on trend like urban dietary intolerances and avocado toast or whatever the latest rubbish the insecure, rampant shopper needs to spout to justify their purchases and to make them feel more confident in public and other the other side how long the Stout English Yeoman will maintain that electricity is the work of the Devil and EVs a tool of social oppression while worshipping at the alter of diesel, no LPG, et no, is it petrol this week? Hang on, no it's Hydrogen. This week's anger is brought to you by the corrosive, toxic element with the atomic number of one. Two sets of loons, frothing like rabid squirrels in the sun while the majority of people just look at their needs, look at the numbers, look at the tax breaks and inconveniences and if things generally align with what they naturally would like then will buy a particular car. For a tiny number there is an EV that fits, over the coming years that number will grow especially as human are the species that evolves and adapts almost instantly to take advantage of benefits if they appear. But when will the market itself evolve to the point of maturity that the froth era in both sides have to go and find something more potent to forth about?

Maybe this is all some baffling proxy for people still living the Mods and Rockers dream or maybe once EVs are cheaper than ICE they'll all evaporate as die hard haters switch as they switched to diesel and then endlessly bang on about it being the way forward and the other lot will no longer get a big enough fix from something that has become mainstream andnin the hands of 'normals' and rush to find a tropical disease they can claim to have at dinner parties to make them more important.

[LordFlathead]

ifmorris said:

Let's not lose sight of the Chinese grip over the manufacture of the batteries, they own a large part of the raw materials. We may well make batteries in the UK but an amount of the base materials will be bought from companies under Chinese control.
I hope that ultimately the battery will be dumped in favour of the hydrogen fuel cell. The experience of building electric transmissions will not be wasted and should continue.
I will not be buying a battery car and sticking to diesel, just had 5 yrs with a Maserati Ghibli with a beautiful 6 cyl one which easily topped 40 mpg. I also believe the ic engine could be further cleaned up.
Remember battery cars still consume energy none of which is entirely carbon free. Much more to say on battery disposal etc, but another time!

Ian Morris CEng FIMechE

All those qualifications and no common sense. Diesel is dead and 40mpg for a diesel is ridiculously inefficient.

https://youtu.be/1oVrIHcdxjA

[mikebradford]

I would have expected the Peugoet e-208 to have been mentioned.
It gets great reviews, as well as looking great.

Not as funky as the mini or Honda, but still looks good and destroys them both on range and price.
For me its the best electric super mini

[ddom]

It’s a load of BS. 40 mpg diesel not ‘efficient’, what’s the green credentials of a new EV? 25 year old diesel car, almost has no value, still recyclable. And does Sir fly??

The tragic and dangerous modern EV owner is at odds with what they claim.

[jamesbilluk]

Honda E or Taycan for me please!

Especially the E, I think it's a great looking little car, and interior too. I would seriously consider selling the other half's Astra for one. As a second car,

Taycan I would love as my only car.

[DonkeyApple]

jamesbilluk said:

Honda E or Taycan for me please!

Especially the E, I think it's a great looking little car, and interior too. I would seriously consider selling the other half's Astra for one. As a second car,

Taycan I would love as my only car.

I've got to say that those two are among my least favourite. The Honda is like a discount stereo show room inside. You've got to really love 80s TV show tech to find pleasure at the price they are asking for a car that won't travel all that far before becoming an irritation. The Porsche looks great. It's a big, heavy, luxurious mile muncher that can be hurled down the road at remarkable pace except that it doesn't munch miles well due to having to stop for long periods and pre plan any route via fixed points and not can you hoon it because of the same issue. The end result being hypermiling like an MGB owner in a product that suggested total freedom.

Given what the Porsche brand stands for the Taycan is a fraud like the zero performance 3.6 diesel Cayenne was. It simply doesn't do what the brand is about.

It's a superb car if you're not actually doing what a big, mile munching, high performance GT is designed to do but instead just using it within the narrow parameters of the suburban potterer. To me it's one of the EVs that really highlights the problem of rubbish battery tech and I feel the EVs that play to the genuine strengths of current battery tech are much more honest products.

[jamesbilluk]

DonkeyApple said:

I've got to say that those two are among my least favourite. The Honda is like a discount stereo show room inside. You've got to really love 80s TV show tech to find pleasure at the price they are asking for a car that won't travel all that far before becoming an irritation. The Porsche looks great. It's a big, heavy, luxurious mile muncher that can be hurled down the road at remarkable pace except that it doesn't munch miles well due to having to stop for long periods and pre plan any route via fixed points and not can you hoon it because of the same issue. The end result being hypermiling like an MGB owner in a product that suggested total freedom.

Given what the Porsche brand stands for the Taycan is a fraud like the zero performance 3.6 diesel Cayenne was. It simply doesn't do what the brand is about.

It's a superb car if you're not actually doing what a big, mile munching, high performance GT is designed to do but instead just using it within the narrow parameters of the suburban potterer. To me it's one of the EVs that really highlights the problem of rubbish battery tech and I feel the EVs that play to the genuine strengths of current battery tech are much more honest products.

I quite like a gadget, so seem strangly attracted to it, it would only be a second car, so the Es r age wouldnt be a problem.

I do see what you mean with regards to the range though. For day to day at the moment the taycan wouid suite me fine, more than enough miles, but I suspect there would be the odd day where I want to travel further afield, and then it becomes a nuisance.

A Panamera Turbo S E hybrid would probably suit me more... Local journeys on electric, and the V8 there if you need it.

[DonkeyApple]

jamesbilluk said:

I quite like a gadget, so seem strangly attracted to it, it would only be a second car, so the Es r age wouldnt be a problem.

I do see what you mean with regards to the range though. For day to day at the moment the taycan wouid suite me fine, more than enough miles, but I suspect there would be the odd day where I want to travel further afield, and then it becomes a nuisance.

A Panamera Turbo S E hybrid would probably suit me more... Local journeys on electric, and the V8 there if you need it.

Yup. You've got to love tech to pay what they are asking for the Honda but it's in the mix with things like the Mini, I3, Kona and 208 so part of a widening mix of choices for suburban runabouts where things like range just aren't the killer issue that some attempt to make out it is.

The Taycan, as lovely as it is just feels like a fraud despite the uncomfortable, probable reality that not many owners of continent crushing, big, heavy, high performance, expensive cars actually use them for anything more than local pottering. A bit like offroad cars that will never be used offroad.

[SWoll]

DonkeyApple said:

jamesbilluk said:

I quite like a gadget, so seem strangly attracted to it, it would only be a second car, so the Es r age wouldnt be a problem.

I do see what you mean with regards to the range though. For day to day at the moment the taycan wouid suite me fine, more than enough miles, but I suspect there would be the odd day where I want to travel further afield, and then it becomes a nuisance.

A Panamera Turbo S E hybrid would probably suit me more... Local journeys on electric, and the V8 there if you need it.

Yup. You've got to love tech to pay what they are asking for the Honda but it's in the mix with things like the Mini, I3, Kona and 208 so part of a widening mix of choices for suburban runabouts where things like range just aren't the killer issue that some attempt to make out it is.

The Taycan, as lovely as it is just feels like a fraud despite the uncomfortable, probable reality that not many owners of continent crushing, big, heavy, high performance, expensive cars actually use them for anything more than local pottering. A bit like offroad cars that will never be used offroad.

Exeter to Edinburgh in Taycan 4S. I wouldn't consider 40 minutes of stops in an 8 hour, 452 mile journey out of the norm personally even in an ICE car so not really seeing what the big issue is even for the small number of owners who cover big distances regularly? This is also based on a particularly pessimistic maximum range/efficiency figure for the car based on independent testing results where 250-300 miles at motorway speeds has been achieved by numerous testers.

Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 7th April 10:40

[DonkeyApple]

Exeter to Edinburgh, as you say, is relatively anomalous and not a good example. What is more common is the round trip, in a day event. Say 100 miles to a destination, a bit of pottering and then home. Absolutely no need to stop, detour or try and find somewhere specific to park to a set amount of time yet that's what you end up having to do with something like a Taycan, as well as hypermiling.

I will very rarely travel much more than 100-140 miles from home by car but often do that as a round trip and in a performance car won't be hypermiling. Those more common round trips where no one spending £100k on a car would contemplate chilling at a service station are where the premium EVs masquerading as performance mile munchers fail.

It's why out here in the Cotswolds where a lot of people with expensive cars will day trip to central London end up with Tesla's as the only viable EV solution at present. Their range allows you to go door to door and back without ever having to stop, detour or seek out special parking.

[Nickbrapp]

Really who the hell is driving from Scotland to Exeter though? Especially in a ice without filling up. More like people driving London to Cornwall would be a better idea, especially if you had a family no way is a kids bladder going to last 300 miles.

I’m a travelling engineer and my area covers the whole of Wales and the south west to Exeter and I wouldn’t think twice about having a EV, I would relish in it, I already stop every day after a maximum 2 hours driving so it wouldn’t impact on me very much at all.

[SWoll]

DonkeyApple said:

Exeter to Edinburgh, as you say, is relatively anomalous and not a good example. What is more common is the round trip, in a day event. Say 100 miles to a destination, a bit of pottering and then home. Absolutely no need to stop, detour or try and find somewhere specific to park to a set amount of time yet that's what you end up having to do with something like a Taycan, as well as hypermiling.

I will very rarely travel much more than 100-140 miles from home by car but often do that as a round trip and in a performance car won't be hypermiling. Those more common round trips where no one spending £100k on a car would contemplate chilling at a service station are where the premium EVs masquerading as performance mile munchers fail.

It's why out here in the Cotswolds where a lot of people with expensive cars will day trip to central London end up with Tesla's as the only viable EV solution at present. Their range allows you to go door to door and back without ever having to stop, detour or seek out special parking.

Cotswolds to London and back is easily achievable in a Taycan or many other EV's without needing to hypermile or charge. Your regular 100-140 mile trips would be possible driving in whatever fashion you want all year around and I'm not convinced everyone is quite as reluctant as you are to stop for 15 minutes at a service station even if the distances were twice that.

Really not seeing the problem.