ICE ban clouds on the horizon. Are you out?
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
Terminator X said:
It seems that the reports of the death of ICE have perhaps been greatly exaggerated. The EV Evangelists will be sucking through pursed lips 
TX.
Edit - "Porsche has teamed up with Siemens Energy to produce 130,000 litres of climate-neutral eFuel by 2022. Called the Haru Oni project and based in southern Chile due to its windy climate, the new venture aims to step production to 55 million litres of eFuel a year by 2024, and then to 550 million litres by 2026."
Lolz, you know i once baked a cake, but this does not make me Mr Kipling you know ;-)TX.
Edit - "Porsche has teamed up with Siemens Energy to produce 130,000 litres of climate-neutral eFuel by 2022. Called the Haru Oni project and based in southern Chile due to its windy climate, the new venture aims to step production to 55 million litres of eFuel a year by 2024, and then to 550 million litres by 2026."
Edited by Terminator X on Monday 22 February 12:00
For comparison, the UK alone burned 16.2 BILLION litres of road fuels in 2019 according to the Petrol Retailers Ascociation !
This is the problem with replacing Petrol and Diesel, we are absolutely wedded to pretty much uncontrolled consumption of these fuels, in quanties so enourmous as to be hard to comprehend)
Edited by Max_Torque on Monday 22 February 12:40
TX.
Most people will say whatever they think best to keep the mortgage being paid. 
No one is yet close to creating a commercially viable file via carbon capture, however, if we assume such production does go ahead the relevant question is who has the true need to pay the cost to use it? It won't be the private motorist as they don't 'need' to buy it and there are other parties with deeper pockets as well as a greater need.
The die is pretty much cast for European motorists in terms of migrating to the electric motor. By the time most of us have stopped driving the majority of cars will be propelled by them. This doesn't negate the fact that existing batteries are s
t or that alternate solutions will be found, there isn't going to be a reversal that sees significant numbers of things that burn fuel for energy permitted to return, whether that is gas boilers or some form of internal combustion engine. 
No one is yet close to creating a commercially viable file via carbon capture, however, if we assume such production does go ahead the relevant question is who has the true need to pay the cost to use it? It won't be the private motorist as they don't 'need' to buy it and there are other parties with deeper pockets as well as a greater need.
The die is pretty much cast for European motorists in terms of migrating to the electric motor. By the time most of us have stopped driving the majority of cars will be propelled by them. This doesn't negate the fact that existing batteries are s
t or that alternate solutions will be found, there isn't going to be a reversal that sees significant numbers of things that burn fuel for energy permitted to return, whether that is gas boilers or some form of internal combustion engine. bigothunter said:
DonkeyApple said:
The die is pretty much cast for European motorists in terms of migrating to the electric motor.
Absolutely 
Enormous momentum of the juggernaut rolling towards us is unstoppable. Same applies to autonomous driving in Europe.DonkeyApple said:
The die is pretty much cast for European motorists in terms of migrating to the electric motor. By the time most of us have stopped driving the majority of cars will be propelled by them. This doesn't negate the fact that existing batteries are st or that alternate solutions will be found, there isn't going to be a reversal that sees significant numbers of things that burn fuel for energy permitted to return, whether that is gas boilers or some form of internal combustion engine.
And this is the reason i hold up the ICE-flag as long as i can and not because i don't like electric cars. Yes, i love the sound of a nice engine but i also want to make a statement. I disagree with a lot that is happening at the moment regarding cars, it is mad. t or that alternate solutions will be found, there isn't going to be a reversal that sees significant numbers of things that burn fuel for energy permitted to return, whether that is gas boilers or some form of internal combustion engine. The reason is, when talking about EVs today, there is absolutely no discussion possible.
Can we reduce traffic?
Should we look into alternative fuels?
Should cars last longer?
Why are cars so heavy?
Are big batteries a good solution?
Why is public transport so bad?
Should we also reduce flights?
Can we compensate CO2 emissions somehow?
and a lot more...
No. Just ban ice cars, et voilà, the world is safe. You have a different opinion? You are a dinosaur.
Edited by ae2006 on Monday 22 February 16:30
ae2006 said:
And this is the reason i hold up the ICE-flag as long as i can and not because i don't like electric cars. Yes, i love the sound of a nice engine but i also want to make a statement. I disagree with a lot that is happening at the moment regarding cars, it is mad.
The reason is, when talking about EVs today, there is absolutely no discussion possible.
Can we reduce traffic?
Should we look into alternative fuels?
Should cars last longer?
Why are cars so heavy?
Are big batteries a good solution?
Why is public transport so bad?
Should we also reduce flights?
Can we compensate CO2 emissions somehow?
and a lot more...
No. Just ban ice cars, et voilà, the world is safe. You have a different opinion? You are a dinosaur.
Eutopia is all boggo transport boxes, vans and trucks being EVs so that you can hear a special ICE engine being razzed by someone having fun ten miles away. The reason is, when talking about EVs today, there is absolutely no discussion possible.
Can we reduce traffic?
Should we look into alternative fuels?
Should cars last longer?
Why are cars so heavy?
Are big batteries a good solution?
Why is public transport so bad?
Should we also reduce flights?
Can we compensate CO2 emissions somehow?
and a lot more...
No. Just ban ice cars, et voilà, the world is safe. You have a different opinion? You are a dinosaur.
Edited by ae2006 on Monday 22 February 16:30
Reality is millions of elderly street thugs who spent the 70s trying to punch anyone on the street who wasn't in their special clothing gang or had too dark a complexion arguing loudly with their useless offspring who can't stop shopping, think everything is different because it's now displayed on a screen and need their parents to shut up and die so they can pay their debts off. While stuck in the middle are people who like cars but will happily switch to an EV when they are fit for their particular purpose.
Terminator X said:
Max_Torque said:
Terminator X said:
It seems that the reports of the death of ICE have perhaps been greatly exaggerated. The EV Evangelists will be sucking through pursed lips
TX.
Edit - "Porsche has teamed up with Siemens Energy to produce 130,000 litres of climate-neutral eFuel by 2022. Called the Haru Oni project and based in southern Chile due to its windy climate, the new venture aims to step production to 55 million litres of eFuel a year by 2024, and then to 550 million litres by 2026."
Lolz, you know i once baked a cake, but this does not make me Mr Kipling you know ;-)TX.
Edit - "Porsche has teamed up with Siemens Energy to produce 130,000 litres of climate-neutral eFuel by 2022. Called the Haru Oni project and based in southern Chile due to its windy climate, the new venture aims to step production to 55 million litres of eFuel a year by 2024, and then to 550 million litres by 2026."
Edited by Terminator X on Monday 22 February 12:00
For comparison, the UK alone burned 16.2 BILLION litres of road fuels in 2019 according to the Petrol Retailers Ascociation !
This is the problem with replacing Petrol and Diesel, we are absolutely wedded to pretty much uncontrolled consumption of these fuels, in quanties so enourmous as to be hard to comprehend)
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 22 February 12:40
TX.
The fact remains, making a couple of hundred thousand, or even a few million litres of synthetic fuel is irrelevant, even compared to the currently very limited market penetration by battery energy storage. However, physics is on the side of the battery, because even if your fuel IS synthetic, even if it does use captured carbon, because an ICE is mono-directional and horrendously inefficient, it needs vastly more energy for any given useful work output (compared to a battery electric solution) and that increase in energy means more cost and a greater co/2 mile irrespective of where the energy ultimately is sourced from (Even a wind/solar generation system must be manufactured, installed and maintained, so being able to drive, roughly 3 times or more futher on its output means 3x or more lower carbon output per mile driven!)
Consider that a Tesla Model X P100D with it's "large" 100kWh battery is in fact equivalent in pure energy terms to just 10 litres of petrol, ie a Tesla model X has a 2 gallon fuel tank pretty much!!!. A Range Rover Sport SVR, which has less performance, has a 104 litre fuel tank! That right there shows you the difference in efficiency that moving to electric traction brings........
DonkeyApple said:
I genuinely don't think autonomous driving is a concern. Even if they actually get something to work they will just be freeing pedestrians from the shackles of the pavement. It's a dream for people who live where no one walks and cars drive in simplistic road layouts. In a country built on medieval roads and where humans still walk we are secure.
Just another engineering challenge which will be solved over the next few years. Here's a step towards that goal.https://news.mit.edu/2018/self-driving-cars-for-co...
bigothunter said:
DonkeyApple said:
I genuinely don't think autonomous driving is a concern. Even if they actually get something to work they will just be freeing pedestrians from the shackles of the pavement. It's a dream for people who live where no one walks and cars drive in simplistic road layouts. In a country built on medieval roads and where humans still walk we are secure.
Just another engineering challenge which will be solved over the next few years. Here's a step towards that goal.https://news.mit.edu/2018/self-driving-cars-for-co...
Country lanes are the easy roads. This stuff is nowhere near being able to work in busy and complex environments like towns.
We have a saying in our family that is used when someone can't quite see what something is which is 'possibly a giraffe'. This originated from a friend who was showing me the app on his iPhone for partially sighted users that looks at the image from the camera and tells you what you're looking at. It's really rather good except when we pointed it at our children who were on a swing, less than 20 feet away it's best guess was that we were looking at a giraffe. An animal known not to be wandering wild anywhere near the geographic location of the phone and also an animal for which the whereabouts of every single one outside of Africanis public information. Yet of all the possible scenarios that the app could come up with the absolute best was a giraffe.
Autonomy is rubbish. The sensors used and the analysis of the data collected is so far behind that of the most simplenof human minds that given the complex nature of our urban and suburban roads in the UK we really have nothing to fear in this country. As shown by the video.
DonkeyApple said:
Autonomy is rubbish. The sensors used and the analysis of the data collected is so far behind that of the most simplenof human minds that given the complex nature of our urban and suburban roads in the UK we really have nothing to fear in this country.
Just watch autonomy become commonplace over the next 10 years. Elon maintains full autonomy (Level 5) is close.bigothunter said:
DonkeyApple said:
Autonomy is rubbish. The sensors used and the analysis of the data collected is so far behind that of the most simplenof human minds that given the complex nature of our urban and suburban roads in the UK we really have nothing to fear in this country.
Just watch autonomy become commonplace over the next 10 years. Elon maintains full autonomy (Level 5) is close.The research being done in London is more relevant but so far the project looks more like a salary venture riding on free government funding.
It'll be interesting to watch the evolution and where autonomy gets permissioned but it's pertinent to note how much skirting around the obvious issues those earning a salary from the work are doing.
bigothunter said:
DonkeyApple said:
Autonomy is rubbish. The sensors used and the analysis of the data collected is so far behind that of the most simplenof human minds that given the complex nature of our urban and suburban roads in the UK we really have nothing to fear in this country.
Just watch autonomy become commonplace over the next 10 years. Elon maintains full autonomy (Level 5) is close.321boost said:
bigothunter said:
DonkeyApple said:
Autonomy is rubbish. The sensors used and the analysis of the data collected is so far behind that of the most simplenof human minds that given the complex nature of our urban and suburban roads in the UK we really have nothing to fear in this country.
Just watch autonomy become commonplace over the next 10 years. Elon maintains full autonomy (Level 5) is close.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/04/ford-f-earnings-q4...
https://corporate.ford.com/operations/autonomous-v...
Terminator X said:
Max_Torque said:
Terminator X said:
It seems that the reports of the death of ICE have perhaps been greatly exaggerated. The EV Evangelists will be sucking through pursed lips
TX.
Edit - "Porsche has teamed up with Siemens Energy to produce 130,000 litres of climate-neutral eFuel by 2022. Called the Haru Oni project and based in southern Chile due to its windy climate, the new venture aims to step production to 55 million litres of eFuel a year by 2024, and then to 550 million litres by 2026."
Lolz, you know i once baked a cake, but this does not make me Mr Kipling you know ;-)TX.
Edit - "Porsche has teamed up with Siemens Energy to produce 130,000 litres of climate-neutral eFuel by 2022. Called the Haru Oni project and based in southern Chile due to its windy climate, the new venture aims to step production to 55 million litres of eFuel a year by 2024, and then to 550 million litres by 2026."
Edited by Terminator X on Monday 22 February 12:00
For comparison, the UK alone burned 16.2 BILLION litres of road fuels in 2019 according to the Petrol Retailers Ascociation !
This is the problem with replacing Petrol and Diesel, we are absolutely wedded to pretty much uncontrolled consumption of these fuels, in quanties so enourmous as to be hard to comprehend)
Edited by Max_Torque on Monday 22 February 12:40
TX.
It's a great publicity piece, has nil technical information.
I think this is an interesting read
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/feb/15...
I.e. there are far worse issues elsewhere, don't be panicked by all the greenwashing, scaremongering lot and let change happen first rather than it forcing a change on you is where I'm at with all this BS !
I.e industry is far more polluting that anything else is the main message I got from this.
Those who feel they can afford to change - feel free, but not fit to lecture.
Nothing to see here, move along now
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/feb/15...
I.e. there are far worse issues elsewhere, don't be panicked by all the greenwashing, scaremongering lot and let change happen first rather than it forcing a change on you is where I'm at with all this BS !
I.e industry is far more polluting that anything else is the main message I got from this.
Those who feel they can afford to change - feel free, but not fit to lecture.
Nothing to see here, move along now
bigothunter said:
DonkeyApple said:
Autonomy is rubbish. The sensors used and the analysis of the data collected is so far behind that of the most simplenof human minds that given the complex nature of our urban and suburban roads in the UK we really have nothing to fear in this country.
Just watch autonomy become commonplace over the next 10 years. Elon maintains full autonomy (Level 5) is close.
Still waiting for Wonder Batteries etc.TX.
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