Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 18]

[cornershop]

Rubins4 said:

cornershop said:

I’ve been researching e36 M3 - there is something special about the straight-6 burble

My pal had an E36 M3 Evolution; 3.2 rather than 3.0, twin rather than single vanos, increased redline and 6-spd rather than 5. 321bhp rather than the standard M3’s 280odd (from memory); no traction control. The engine absolutely sings from a low, gruff burble to through a sort of metallic stirring in the mid range to a full on yowl, the Revs come faster and faster as you head up the range.

Precisely the reason I want one! My v12 vantage will make way for it.

[rider73]

I've had very little internet since sunday , so i'll just say, i've been watching DEMPSEY AND MAKEPEACE on some obscure channel, loved this back in the day.... - theres a feast for the eyes of classic barges - usually the villans drive bmw 528's and a merc sl, and a very "classy" Escort xr3i cab!



of course being the internet someone has already beat me to it - youtube of cars of the series

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2...

[Derventio]

I like the the look of this:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012287...

Within thread budget (And could be easily bought without selling the current Skoda Superb Estate semi-barge)? Check!
Dirty great V8 with leather and electric everything: Check!
Sensible colour inside and out? Check!
Stock, not Geralded or Barried? Check!
Acceptable MOT history? Check!
Sensible journey time from my home? Check!

Still on lockdown so can't go and look at it? Check.....

Bugger!

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Dapster said:

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...

Lovely. Really lovely. But around 25,000 of your English pounds.

[ian316]

W210_190e I'd have a really good look underneath they throw a lot of salt about around that part of Yorkshire but it looks tidy and will feel like a jet fighter after the 190 enjoy

[MorganP104]

Derventio said:

I like the the look of this:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012287...

Within thread budget (And could be easily bought without selling the current Skoda Superb Estate semi-barge)? Check!
Dirty great V8 with leather and electric everything: Check!
Sensible colour inside and out? Check!
Stock, not Geralded or Barried? Check!
Acceptable MOT history? Check!
Sensible journey time from my home? Check!

Still on lockdown so can't go and look at it? Check.....

Bugger!

That does look jolly nice. There has been some Geraldry, though it is thankfully minor (chrome grille, chrome door handle caps, wind deflectors on the side windows). I only mention it because my L322 beard is long and bushy, meaning I can spot non-standard a mile off.

The leather looks in excellent condition - maybe the best I've seen on an early L322. Suggests the seats have been regularly "fed", and that the driver isn't a huge great fat bloke!

It's got a bit of lift on the central interior air vent, but they all do that, sir (weak plastic clips), easily solved with either a replacement face plate, or a few strategically applied dabs of superglue.

Overall, that should be a good buy for someone.

If any threadist is serious about viewing/buying this car, let me know, and I'll happily provide a list of things to look out for.

[SpeckledJim]

cornershop said:

Rubins4 said:

cornershop said:

I’ve been researching e36 M3 - there is something special about the straight-6 burble

My pal had an E36 M3 Evolution; 3.2 rather than 3.0, twin rather than single vanos, increased redline and 6-spd rather than 5. 321bhp rather than the standard M3’s 280odd (from memory); no traction control. The engine absolutely sings from a low, gruff burble to through a sort of metallic stirring in the mid range to a full on yowl, the Revs come faster and faster as you head up the range.

Precisely the reason I want one! My v12 vantage will make way for it.

Wait...what?

You're going to swap perhaps the best looking car of the last 20 years, with a tremendous engine, for a crusty repmobile with a tremendous engine?

I love an E36 M3 as much as the next man (as long as the next man isn't you, apparently) but a V12 Vantage is a wondrous, wondrous thing.

[biggbn]

Rubins4 said:

My pal had an E36 M3 Evolution; 3.2 rather than 3.0, twin rather than single vanos, increased redline and 6-spd rather than 5. 321bhp rather than the standard M3’s 280odd (from memory); no traction control. The engine absolutely sings from a low, gruff burble to through a sort of metallic stirring in the mid range to a full on yowl, the Revs come faster and faster as you head up the range.

Although not precisely the same, the McLaren F1 engine is effectively two straight six-cylinder banks of single vanos M3 engine, if you find the rights videos, an F1 sounds remarkably like a pair of M3’s in unison. Wonderful.

Perfect description, from blue collar growl to that high rev metallic scream, like God gargling razorblades, a wonderful engine. Always wanted one in a z3m roadster.

[Macron]

MorganP104 said:

If any threadist is serious about viewing/buying this car, let me know, and I'll happily provide a list of things to look out for.

I think you should do that anyway, it's been a while since we had a good buying guide. Preferably for the 4.2S a la baked_bean, which is also available in thread, just not as frequently as it was pre bug.

[Macron]

rider73 said:

I've had very little internet since sunday , so i'll just say, i've been watching DEMPSEY AND MAKEPEACE on some obscure channel, loved this back in the day.... - theres a feast for the eyes of classic barges - usually the villans drive bmw 528's and a merc sl, and a very "classy" Escort xr3i cab!



of course being the internet someone has already beat me to it - youtube of cars of the series

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2...

https://www.imcdb.org/m88503.html

Pics, but....

[tobinen]

MorganP104 said:

I only mention it because my L322 beard is long and bushy, meaning I can spot non-standard a mile off.

Always good to know we have an L322 beard. I've always fancied one.

[anonymous-user]

Dapster said:

All prices incl VAT:

Sportline suspension with 8 hole alloys £1,076
MB Sound system: £756
Speakers front and electric arial: £225
Speakers rear: £206
Leather seating: £1,863
Metallic paint: £740
Electric seats front (each): £358
Electric seats front (each): £358
Heated front seats: £358
Multi contour backrest (each): £246
Acceleration skid control (ASR): £2,234
Automatic locking differential (ASD): £1,022
Air conditioning: £1,947
Anti theft system: £628

Sub total: £12,017

E320 - £35,100

Total: £47,117

Inflation adjusted: £92,632

That must be 3x - 4x the cost of a mainstream car like a Cavalier at the time, I'd have been absolutely apoplectic with rage if my £100k boring and not very fast saloon needed a head gasket, wiring loom, or new wings at less than 10 years old like many of these seem to have required.

If you wanted proper quality rather than billy bullst German "quality" you could have bought a Volvo 960 for half that, and it won't have ever, EVER generated many (any?) £1.4k bills, much less a £14k bill no matter how big a bag of lies your specialist was.

[SpeckledJim]

Shots Fired!!!

[anonymous-user]

SpeckledJim said:

Shots Fired!!!

As all the irritating tweenie tik-toks go "We need to talk about..."

How Merecedes-Benz are, and always have been, sold on image and marketing at least as much as substance....

[dbdb]

stickleback123 said:

Dapster said:

All prices incl VAT:

Sportline suspension with 8 hole alloys £1,076
MB Sound system: £756
Speakers front and electric arial: £225
Speakers rear: £206
Leather seating: £1,863
Metallic paint: £740
Electric seats front (each): £358
Electric seats front (each): £358
Heated front seats: £358
Multi contour backrest (each): £246
Acceleration skid control (ASR): £2,234
Automatic locking differential (ASD): £1,022
Air conditioning: £1,947
Anti theft system: £628

Sub total: £12,017

E320 - £35,100

Total: £47,117

Inflation adjusted: £92,632

That must be 3x - 4x the cost of a mainstream car like a Cavalier at the time, I'd have been absolutely apoplectic with rage if my £100k boring and not very fast saloon needed a head gasket, wiring loom, or new wings at less than 10 years old like many of these seem to have required.

If you wanted proper quality rather than billy bullst German "quality" you could have bought a Volvo 960 for half that, and it won't have ever, EVER generated many (any?) £1.4k bills, much less a £14k bill no matter how big a bag of lies your specialist was.

If quality is determined by longevity (as it probably should be for every day cars) then that era of Volvos is considerably ahead of the Mercedes and hard to beat.

[Dapster]

stickleback123 said:

SpeckledJim said:

Shots Fired!!!

How Merecedes-Benz are, and always have been, sold on image and marketing at least as much as substance....

Up to and including the early 90's. Mercedes very much walked the talk - brilliantly engineered, beautifully finished and exceptional attention to detail. I think their strength was that they knew what they stood for, and did that so well. In my view this is their zenith....

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

stickleback123 said:

That must be 3x - 4x the cost of a mainstream car like a Cavalier at the time, I'd have been absolutely apoplectic with rage if my £100k boring and not very fast saloon needed a head gasket, wiring loom, or new wings at less than 10 years old like many of these seem to have required.

If you wanted proper quality rather than billy bullst German "quality" you could have bought a Volvo 960 for half that, and it won't have ever, EVER generated many (any?) £1.4k bills, much less a £14k bill no matter how big a bag of lies your specialist was.

Now, using this doll, point to us where the Mercedes touched you.....

[anonymous-user]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Now, using this doll, point to us where the Mercedes touched you.....

I've still got the scratches on my hands and arms from fighting off the poor quality component and it's rusty bracket

[MorganP104]

Macron said:

MorganP104 said:

If any threadist is serious about viewing/buying this car, let me know, and I'll happily provide a list of things to look out for.

I think you should do that anyway, it's been a while since we had a good buying guide. Preferably for the 4.2S a la baked_bean, which is also available in thread, just not as frequently as it was pre bug.

Oh, go on then.

Electricals

- Height sensors (one per corner) can go squiffy, causing all kinds of misleading air suspension errors on the dashboard. The only way to find out if it is indeed a height sensor, or something more expensive and bork-tastic is to plug the car into the expensive and hard to obtain LR software. Decent LR indies will have such kit, and cuts fault-finding time by a significant amount.

- The dash display can get pixellated, to the point where it's unreadable. This a common problem (shared with contemporary BMWs) and there are loads of solutions to the problem on the internet, ranging from a direct swap-out to having a crack yourself, depending on how good you are with a soldering iron.

- Boot catches can fail, meaning the tailgate either won't open (if it's failed shut), or just flaps around (if it fails open). Fun fact - the motorised catch is a part shared with the E53 BMW X5, and is a direct fit. Replacement is a job you can do yourself, if you're careful about removing trim clips.

- The (rather ancient) infotainment system can go on the blink, either at the head unit end, or with the amp/CD changer. When this happens, most people opt for a half-decent aftermarket option with such luxuries as Bluetooth and 21st century graphics. If you're all about the OEM, replacement units can be sourced from scrapped vehicles. Removal/installation is a DIY job if you're even mildly competent with a screwdriver. Fun fact number 2 - the infotainment system from a E53 BMW X5 can be fitted to an L322 with minimal fettling. The BMW system (throughout the vehicle's lifecycle) was superior to the LR version, in all but off-road information screens.

- Engine management warning light. This can be on for a variety of reasons, and whilst easily reset, usually comes back on after a few days. Unscrupulous sellers will reset the EML using a £20 eBay tool before you turn up to view. The proper LR software will tell you exactly which sensor is giving a dodgy reading.

- Electrically adjustable steering column. A really nice feature, until it goes wrong, at which point, it's a royal pain in the bum. Symptoms include the car "forgetting" where you like the steering wheel to be, and dropping the wheel to it's lowest position. A new control module is required if that happens.

- Parking sensors can go on the fritz, and with such a large car, you really do need them to be on their game. The pukka LR software will tell you which sensor (or sensors, there are loads of them) is on the blink.

- The BMW-derived electrical systems within the L322 are VERY voltage-sensitive, so ensure the (huge) battery is in tip-top condition. Lots of serious-looking errors and failures can be fixed by replacing the battery. Always worth checking the battery before spending big money chasing your tail on faults.

Suspension

- Despite reports to the contrary, the air suspension system is reasonably robust. Things that can go wrong are the aforementioned height sensors, airbags (one per corner) can leak, and the compressor (in the spare wheel well) can fail. Airbags are fairly cheap to replace, and should be considered consumable items. Repair of the compressor can be tackled by an enthusiastic and competent DIY spannerman (usually only requiring a seal kit), but most opt for a swap out refurbished unit. A car that goes up or down at a funny angle usually means an airbag is leaky. You shouldn't be able to hear more than a whisper from the compressor when sitting in the driver's seat. If it's noticeably loud, you will almost certainly be looking at a problem. Walk away from any car that is sitting on it's bump stops - at the air suspension's lowest setting, it's still significantly higher than that.

- L322 Rangies are heavy cars, and go through suspension components for fun. Bushes, arms and the like will need replacing on a fairly regular basis. The good news is worn parts don't seem to affect the way the car drives, so most owners have work done on the basis of MoT fail sheets.

Engines

- In basic terms, engines got better the longer the car was in production. Whether you're going for a petrol or diesel lump, later is better. Early cars came with a BMW 4.4 V8 petrol engine, or a BMW 2.9 diesel six pot. Both engines can do big mileages if properly maintained, though many are neglected at the cheaper end of the market. The 4.4 V8 is particularly sensitive to oil choice, and can suffer (potentially terminal) sludging if a previous owner has cheaped out on the black stuff. On the 2.9 diesel, injectors can fail, and turbos can get tired. If you can afford it, stretch the budget to later Jaguar-engined petrol cars, or Ford-engined diesels, as they tend to be less problematic.

Gearbox

- The five-speed auto in earlier cars can be a bit on the fragile side, with many having been rebuilt by the time they fall into "thread territory". A bill for £3,000 on gearbox work dated in the last 5 or so years is a good sign. The later 6 speed 'box was better, but still not bombproof. There's no point talking about the 8 speed unit, as that's well out of threadists' reach, money-wise.

Body

- Generally fairly rust resistant, though check door shuts, the undersides and leading edges of doors, and around the wheelarches.

- Check for water ingress in the rear light clusters. They can be removed, dried out, re-sealed and re-fitted, but it's a faff. Lights that don't take on water in the first place are preferable.

- Lots of owners go to town with Geralding, usually adding plasti-chome to EVERYTHING. The good news is that 99% of such daft frippery can be easily removed, and replaced with OEM parts, of which there are many on the internet.

- Avoid anything with wheels larger than 20", as bigger wheels will ruin the ride quality, and tyres are stupidly expensive. All-season/winter tyres won't fit properly under the arches on wheels bigger than 20" anyway.

I'm sure there's stuff I've missed, but that's what I know.

[tobinen]

Top man, thank you.