ANPR - Have Your Say
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Unfortunately human behaviour doesnt work like that....
A normal person will feel higher speeds are more risky so be more aware and drive more safely and end up driving where they feel safest.
Same for pedestrians - theyre a lot more careful on higher speed roads than lower speed ones.
How many times has a new 20mph limit been followed by someone being run over by a bus?
Hence putting a lower speed limit on a road doesnt always make it safer.
An 80mph limit on motorwyas might be safer than 70
Theyve already realised that road works speed limits can be too low - people pay less attention etc.
It's not as straightforward as you might think
Hence if someone asks for a lower speed limit ' to improve safety' you'll notice it wont happen straight away if at all.
Actually I agree with your line of argument - treat people like children and they will end up acting like them. But that's not today's philosophy where negative policies dominate in support of the sacrosanct 'safety' campaign.A normal person will feel higher speeds are more risky so be more aware and drive more safely and end up driving where they feel safest.
Same for pedestrians - theyre a lot more careful on higher speed roads than lower speed ones.
How many times has a new 20mph limit been followed by someone being run over by a bus?
Hence putting a lower speed limit on a road doesnt always make it safer.
An 80mph limit on motorwyas might be safer than 70
Theyve already realised that road works speed limits can be too low - people pay less attention etc.
It's not as straightforward as you might think
Hence if someone asks for a lower speed limit ' to improve safety' you'll notice it wont happen straight away if at all.
I have searched for data which supports higher speeds being safer but can't find anything. Unfortunately the reference you provided didn't support that claim either. Do you have anything else please?
bigothunter said:
I have searched for data which supports higher speeds being safer but can't find anything. Unfortunately the reference you provided didn't support that claim either. Do you have anything else please?
ah it didnt say that - dont jump to conclusionsAll it says is there's an optimum safe speed ( and speed limit) for each type of road.
If you choose the wrong one the stats can go the wrong way. - hence whey 20 limits which everyone thought would be safe still have accidents if in the wrong place.
The government guidance is obviously aware of it so you shouldnt get say blanket 20 limits on 30 roads.
However........
bigothunter said:
saaby93 said:
Unfortunately human behaviour doesnt work like that....
A normal person will feel higher speeds are more risky so be more aware and drive more safely and end up driving where they feel safest.
Same for pedestrians - theyre a lot more careful on higher speed roads than lower speed ones.
How many times has a new 20mph limit been followed by someone being run over by a bus?
Hence putting a lower speed limit on a road doesnt always make it safer.
An 80mph limit on motorwyas might be safer than 70
Theyve already realised that road works speed limits can be too low - people pay less attention etc.
It's not as straightforward as you might think
Hence if someone asks for a lower speed limit ' to improve safety' you'll notice it wont happen straight away if at all.
Actually I agree with your line of argument - treat people like children and they will end up acting like them. But that's not today's philosophy where negative policies dominate in support of the sacrosanct 'safety' campaign.A normal person will feel higher speeds are more risky so be more aware and drive more safely and end up driving where they feel safest.
Same for pedestrians - theyre a lot more careful on higher speed roads than lower speed ones.
How many times has a new 20mph limit been followed by someone being run over by a bus?
Hence putting a lower speed limit on a road doesnt always make it safer.
An 80mph limit on motorwyas might be safer than 70
Theyve already realised that road works speed limits can be too low - people pay less attention etc.
It's not as straightforward as you might think
Hence if someone asks for a lower speed limit ' to improve safety' you'll notice it wont happen straight away if at all.
I have searched for data which supports higher speeds being safer but can't find anything. Unfortunately the reference you provided didn't support that claim either. Do you have anything else please?
Conversely, I can’t remember ever seeing statistical evidence for an increased speed limit having reduced accidents - or evidence of a reduced speed-limit increasing accidents.
We can breezily hypothesise about the potential impact of the psychological factors at play (and doubtless they run both ways) until the cows come home, but it seems that they’re gravy to the meat that’s the dumb physics of a vehicle going faster…
AmyRichardson said:
It's an appealing thought but I'm not sure it's a primary factor; where the road-safety effects of reduced speed limits have been studied at any scale the results have universally spanned from (in ultra-layman terms) “statistically unclear but favouring reduced speed” to “favouring reduced speed, no question.”
Where are these reports 
AmyRichardson said:
Conversely, I can’t remember ever seeing statistical evidence for an increased speed limit having reduced accidents - or evidence of a reduced speed-limit increasing accidents.
they'll be implemented quietly Look at the speed limit proposals for motorway road works as an example
saaby93 said:
AmyRichardson said:
It's an appealing thought but I'm not sure it's a primary factor; where the road-safety effects of reduced speed limits have been studied at any scale the results have universally spanned from (in ultra-layman terms) “statistically unclear but favouring reduced speed” to “favouring reduced speed, no question.”
Where are these reports AmyRichardson said:
Conversely, I can’t remember ever seeing statistical evidence for an increased speed limit having reduced accidents - or evidence of a reduced speed-limit increasing accidents.
they'll be implemented quietly Look at the speed limit proposals for motorway road works as an example
The Nilsson power rule (on a given piece of road an increase in speed will lead to increased fatalities to the 4th power, increased serious injuries to the 3rd power and casualty crashes to the 2nd) has been around for ever, I think it's been poo-poo'd for urban roads but whenever it gets tested it still seems an okay guide for rural/highway situations. This concerns injury rather than the raw number of accidents, but then they're the ones we're actually concerned about.
saaby93 said:
AmyRichardson said:
Conversely, I can’t remember ever seeing statistical evidence for an increased speed limit having reduced accidents - or evidence of a reduced speed-limit increasing accidents.
they'll be implemented quietly Look at the speed limit proposals for motorway road works as an example
https://www.bewiser.co.uk/news/driving-laws/highwa...
Truck speed limits (over 7500kg) on single and dual carriageways were raised by 10mph back in 2015 without any adverse effects on safety or emissions. Amusingly they cannot drive at legal limit of 60mph due to 56mph hard limiters. Vans and trucks between 3500kg and 7500kg lose 14mph on motorways because legally they an do 70mph but are hobbled to 56mph.
https://uk.motor1.com/news/433563/hgv-speed-limit-...
These enlightened positive moves must be implemented covertly so that sensitive souls (such as Brake or Green Party) are not provoked into hysteria.
But 60mph through motorway roadworks highlights a glaring anomaly. Why do we tolerate 70mph blanket restriction when 80mph (or more) is accepted across Europe? Maybe that is a step too far for us Brits
k all to do with safety, and everything to do with revenue. bigothunter said:
saaby93 said:
AmyRichardson said:
Conversely, I can’t remember ever seeing statistical evidence for an increased speed limit having reduced accidents - or evidence of a reduced speed-limit increasing accidents.
they'll be implemented quietly Look at the speed limit proposals for motorway road works as an example
https://www.bewiser.co.uk/news/driving-laws/highwa...
Truck speed limits (over 7500kg) on single and dual carriageways were raised by 10mph back in 2015 without any adverse effects on safety or emissions. Amusingly they cannot drive at legal limit of 60mph due to 56mph hard limiters. Vans and trucks between 3500kg and 7500kg lose 14mph on motorways because legally they an do 70mph but are hobbled to 56mph.
https://uk.motor1.com/news/433563/hgv-speed-limit-...
These enlightened positive moves must be implemented covertly so that sensitive souls (such as Brake or Green Party) are not provoked into hysteria.
But 60mph through motorway roadworks highlights a glaring anomaly. Why do we tolerate 70mph blanket restriction when 80mph (or more) is accepted across Europe? Maybe that is a step too far for us Brits
But it might also be true to say that traffic densities on UK motorways are generally a lot higher, which might be why UK roads authorities are less inclined to harmonize UK speed limits, with those used on the continent ?
Pan Pan Pan said:
I suspect that quite a few motorists already tend to do 80 on UK motorways anyway.
But it might also be true to say that traffic densities on UK motorways are generally a lot higher, which might be why UK roads authorities are less inclined to harmonize UK speed limits, with those used on the continent ?
11% of motorists travelled at or above 80mph on motorways in 2018. Passing the prolific speed cameras at those speeds would be unwise. From 2022 in a new car, it's likely to be uncomfortable too.But it might also be true to say that traffic densities on UK motorways are generally a lot higher, which might be why UK roads authorities are less inclined to harmonize UK speed limits, with those used on the continent ?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
bigothunter said:
11% of motorists travelled at or above 80mph on motorways in 2018. Passing the prolific speed cameras at those speeds would be unwise. From 2022 in a new car, it's likely to be uncomfortable too.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Did i read that right, only 2.4% of all road accidents were caused by speeding in 2018 ?https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
bigothunter said:
11% of motorists travelled at or above 80mph on motorways in 2018. Passing the prolific speed cameras at those speeds would be unwise. From 2022 in a new car, it's likely to be uncomfortable too.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Did i read that right, only 2.4% of all road accidents were caused by speeding in 2018 ?https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Countdown said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
bigothunter said:
11% of motorists travelled at or above 80mph on motorways in 2018. Passing the prolific speed cameras at those speeds would be unwise. From 2022 in a new car, it's likely to be uncomfortable too.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Did i read that right, only 2.4% of all road accidents were caused by speeding in 2018 ?https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
bigothunter said:
11% of motorists travelled at or above 80mph on motorways in 2018. Passing the prolific speed cameras at those speeds would be unwise. From 2022 in a new car, it's likely to be uncomfortable too.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Did i read that right, only 2.4% of all road accidents were caused by speeding in 2018 ?https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Despite 46% of cars exceeding 70mph motorway limit and 52% breaking the 30mph limit. That's the logic (excuse?) behind speed cameras and strictly enforcing unrealistically low limits.When you can influence a 2.4% causal factor, why bother with the other 97.6% ?
bigothunter said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
bigothunter said:
11% of motorists travelled at or above 80mph on motorways in 2018. Passing the prolific speed cameras at those speeds would be unwise. From 2022 in a new car, it's likely to be uncomfortable too.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Did i read that right, only 2.4% of all road accidents were caused by speeding in 2018 ?https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Despite 46% of cars exceeding 70mph motorway limit and 52% breaking the 30mph limit. That's the logic (excuse?) behind speed cameras and strictly enforcing unrealistically low limits.When you can influence a 2.4% causal factor, why bother with the other 97.6% ?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
vonhosen said:
Strictly enforced?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
Point taken 10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
What are your views on soft speed limiters scheduled for 2022? Some contributors maintain this proposal has been dropped but I can find no evidence of that.
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
Strictly enforced?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
Point taken 10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
What are your views on soft speed limiters scheduled for 2022? Some contributors maintain this proposal has been dropped but I can find no evidence of that.
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
Strictly enforced?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
Point taken 10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
What are your views on soft speed limiters scheduled for 2022? Some contributors maintain this proposal has been dropped but I can find no evidence of that.
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
Strictly enforced?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
Point taken 10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
What are your views on soft speed limiters scheduled for 2022? Some contributors maintain this proposal has been dropped but I can find no evidence of that.
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