ANPR - Have Your Say
Discussion
Volvolover said:
Can they? I'm fairly sure they have to follow a legal process to put you in jail or fine you, and again, if you haven't done anything illegal you aren't going to have a problem.....
Yep, it's not like you're going to get into unnecessary trouble for having a coffee with a mate in the park. Cold said:
Volvolover said:
Can they? I'm fairly sure they have to follow a legal process to put you in jail or fine you, and again, if you haven't done anything illegal you aren't going to have a problem.....
Yep, it's not like you're going to get into unnecessary trouble for having a coffee with a mate in the park. Volvolover said:
Cold said:
Volvolover said:
Can they? I'm fairly sure they have to follow a legal process to put you in jail or fine you, and again, if you haven't done anything illegal you aren't going to have a problem.....
Yep, it's not like you're going to get into unnecessary trouble for having a coffee with a mate in the park. Volvolover said:
Can they? I'm fairly sure they have to follow a legal process to put you in jail or fine you, and again, if you haven't done anything illegal you aren't going to have a problem.....
I take it you've not been watching the news over the last year then? Many, many examples of people being "fined" for things incorrectly. Or prevented from travelling, again incorrectly. Now in some cases, those have made the press and the fine has been removed. There will be many cases where people will have just paid up, not knowing any better. Secondly, in cases where people have been turned away from roadblocks, kicked out of supermarkets etc, even if they weren't fined, they were prevented from going about their daily business.
So your "fairly sure" I'm afraid, is rather destroyed by current events.
Overreach is always a problem, any tool which gets given to government or their enforcers will get used as much as possible, and usually overused on top of that. Again, from recent history, we have local councils employing people to spy on people for putting the wrong bins out, or trying to get into the "wrong" school. It's a fundamentally bad approach, IMO. Don't spend the money on punishing people for tiny transgressions, spend the money and effort making the service better, then no-one will want or need to transgress. Enforcement and restrictions should only be used where absolutely necessary.
Finally, it's the government which gets to set the rules. Which currently, if you hadn't noticed, include making it illegal to see your own family. I must have missed the robust debates in parliament and large public debate which preceded that. If a (presumably benign) government can do it now, there is nothing to stop a malign one doing it in future.
Facebook or Amazon can do none of those things. Saying "facebook has loads of data, therefore it doesn't matter if the government does the same" is to totally gloss over the consequences which each can visit on us.
CrutyRammers said:
Volvolover said:
Can they? I'm fairly sure they have to follow a legal process to put you in jail or fine you, and again, if you haven't done anything illegal you aren't going to have a problem.....
I take it you've not been watching the news over the last year then? Many, many examples of people being "fined" for things incorrectly. Or prevented from travelling, again incorrectly. Now in some cases, those have made the press and the fine has been removed. There will be many cases where people will have just paid up, not knowing any better. Secondly, in cases where people have been turned away from roadblocks, kicked out of supermarkets etc, even if they weren't fined, they were prevented from going about their daily business.
So your "fairly sure" I'm afraid, is rather destroyed by current events.
Overreach is always a problem, any tool which gets given to government or their enforcers will get used as much as possible, and usually overused on top of that. Again, from recent history, we have local councils employing people to spy on people for putting the wrong bins out, or trying to get into the "wrong" school. It's a fundamentally bad approach, IMO. Don't spend the money on punishing people for tiny transgressions, spend the money and effort making the service better, then no-one will want or need to transgress. Enforcement and restrictions should only be used where absolutely necessary.
Finally, it's the government which gets to set the rules. Which currently, if you hadn't noticed, include making it illegal to see your own family. I must have missed the robust debates in parliament and large public debate which preceded that. If a (presumably benign) government can do it now, there is nothing to stop a malign one doing it in future.
Facebook or Amazon can do none of those things. Saying "facebook has loads of data, therefore it doesn't matter if the government does the same" is to totally gloss over the consequences which each can visit on us.
As i keep saying i dont mind if the gvt collects anpr data as if you are legally going about your business it has no impact on my life, several pages later and its still not been demonstrated how it could have any tangible negative effect bar some tenuous guff about poorly applied emergency laws in unprecedented times by some dumb coppers.
youre going to have to do an awful lot better than that to change my mind
ps. the current rules do not make it illegal to see my family in any way shape or form
CrutyRammers said:
Volvolover said:
Can they? I'm fairly sure they have to follow a legal process to put you in jail or fine you, and again, if you haven't done anything illegal you aren't going to have a problem.....
I take it you've not been watching the news over the last year then? Many, many examples of people being "fined" for things incorrectly. Or prevented from travelling, again incorrectly. Now in some cases, those have made the press and the fine has been removed. There will be many cases where people will have just paid up, not knowing any better. Secondly, in cases where people have been turned away from roadblocks, kicked out of supermarkets etc, even if they weren't fined, they were prevented from going about their daily business.
So your "fairly sure" I'm afraid, is rather destroyed by current events.
Overreach is always a problem, any tool which gets given to government or their enforcers will get used as much as possible, and usually overused on top of that. Again, from recent history, we have local councils employing people to spy on people for putting the wrong bins out, or trying to get into the "wrong" school. It's a fundamentally bad approach, IMO. Don't spend the money on punishing people for tiny transgressions, spend the money and effort making the service better, then no-one will want or need to transgress. Enforcement and restrictions should only be used where absolutely necessary.
Finally, it's the government which gets to set the rules. Which currently, if you hadn't noticed, include making it illegal to see your own family. I must have missed the robust debates in parliament and large public debate which preceded that. If a (presumably benign) government can do it now, there is nothing to stop a malign one doing it in future.
Facebook or Amazon can do none of those things. Saying "facebook has loads of data, therefore it doesn't matter if the government does the same" is to totally gloss over the consequences which each can visit on us.
Something you also fail to note is that we have the choice fairly regularly to vote mp's and thr government out of power
Im out of further discusion as you are just clearly blindly anti establishment
Volvolover said:
I can see from the way this is headed that im dealing with schroedigers idiot who simultaneously criticises the governments apparent inability to control covid and also criticises the measures put in place to help them control the speed of the spread of covid.
Something you also fail to note is that we have the choice fairly regularly to vote mp's and thr government out of power
Im out of further discusion as you are just clearly blindly anti establishment
You have to have understanding.Something you also fail to note is that we have the choice fairly regularly to vote mp's and thr government out of power
Im out of further discusion as you are just clearly blindly anti establishment
Having read both sides, as well as the legislation:
- Generally people are pro crime detection and prevention.
- You will (should) be aware of the concept of proportionality to achieve this
- Those against ANPR are concerned about proportionality. There are safeguards in legislation to place controls over what's allowed and disallowed - it helps to understand this and it reduces fear. They could do a better job of communicating this.
- Even with safeguards in law there is genuine fear. This is understandable dependent on personal experience and perspective. Many have seen authority and power abused, and others see equality and fairness only applying to some of society (e.g. the rich / whatever is popular). Many have not - their views and opinions are equally valid.
- There is no black and white issue here, just proportionality and a set of compromises. The law should reflect the mood of the country as a whole, as best it can.
Volvolover said:
Cold said:
Volvolover said:
Can they? I'm fairly sure they have to follow a legal process to put you in jail or fine you, and again, if you haven't done anything illegal you aren't going to have a problem.....
Yep, it's not like you're going to get into unnecessary trouble for having a coffee with a mate in the park. I'm being generous saying it was questionable competence. Let's hope it was nothing more sinister.
Still, at least they weren't a young lad walking to work. He had to prove his innocence too. Innocence of not actually breaking any laws.
And some people want to extend the reach of those who have taken this past year to demonstrate time and time again that they don't understand legislation. But it's ok for this to happen because Amazons knows where you live.
Cold said:
Volvolover said:
Cold said:
Volvolover said:
Can they? I'm fairly sure they have to follow a legal process to put you in jail or fine you, and again, if you haven't done anything illegal you aren't going to have a problem.....
Yep, it's not like you're going to get into unnecessary trouble for having a coffee with a mate in the park. I'm being generous saying it was questionable competence. Let's hope it was nothing more sinister.
Still, at least they weren't a young lad walking to work. He had to prove his innocence too. Innocence of not actually breaking any laws.
And some people want to extend the reach of those who have taken this past year to demonstrate time and time again that they don't understand legislation. But it's ok for this to happen because Amazons knows where you live.
Volvolover said:
I can see from the way this is headed that im dealing with schroedigers idiot who simultaneously criticises the governments apparent inability to control covid and also criticises the measures put in place to help them control the speed of the spread of covid.
Something you also fail to note is that we have the choice fairly regularly to vote mp's and thr government out of power
Im out of further discusion as you are just clearly blindly anti establishment
Well that didn't take long did it? Something you also fail to note is that we have the choice fairly regularly to vote mp's and thr government out of power
Im out of further discusion as you are just clearly blindly anti establishment
Where have I criticised the government for not controlling covid?
Actually, don't bother, just p
s off and learn some manners.cidered77 said:
The thin end of the wedge argument - i get it conceptually, just don't see how A + B necessarily leads to C. There are risks that either well meaning, or *not* well meaning change could see this infrastructure used for nefarious means .. but low risks, and there are clear benefits as well. The view "i do nothing wrong so nothing to fear" may make some angry middle aged men even more angry,but it's how a lot of people see it... me included.
Well, yes it is. The problem is that slippery slope arguments are a logical fallacy when taken in isolation; but history (including very recent history) can give us a rather good guide to what is likely to happen. It's all very well saying "well it doesn't logically follow", but that doesn't mean it's not likely to follow. One is based on formal logic and absolutes, the other on a probabilistic approach. Both can be true. It may not logically follow that a thing will automatically happen, but it can still be highly likely that it will.Given history, it seems highly likely that power gets abused, to the detriment of people.
There are two big problems with "nothing to hide, nothing to fear". The first is when "they" decide that something you don't think was wrong, now is. The second is, that you end up having to prove you've nothing to hide, which is a reversal of the innocent until proven guilty principle.
There are certainly benefits and we should gain from them as best we can, while protecting ourselves from the problems. That means limiting what it can be used for, and by whom.
In the UK we apparently the most watched nation on earth, I don't like this even though I am law abiding!
In regard of speed cameras I don't really have an issue, I obey the limits and generally the car speedometers read low, most police forces are quite reasonable and give you a few mph margin.
ANPR, I pay VED/Roadtax, whilst I think it should just be put straight onto the price of fuel (polluter pays and all that). If someone doesn't pay tax and insurance, I would be fine with them having cameras to catch them, the big problem is the number of cars with cloned plates, so they can do what they like on the roads with no consequence unless they drive like an idiot and so get pulled over.
In regard of speed cameras I don't really have an issue, I obey the limits and generally the car speedometers read low, most police forces are quite reasonable and give you a few mph margin.
ANPR, I pay VED/Roadtax, whilst I think it should just be put straight onto the price of fuel (polluter pays and all that). If someone doesn't pay tax and insurance, I would be fine with them having cameras to catch them, the big problem is the number of cars with cloned plates, so they can do what they like on the roads with no consequence unless they drive like an idiot and so get pulled over.
Volvolover said:
Cold said:
Volvolover said:
Cold said:
Volvolover said:
Can they? I'm fairly sure they have to follow a legal process to put you in jail or fine you, and again, if you haven't done anything illegal you aren't going to have a problem.....
Yep, it's not like you're going to get into unnecessary trouble for having a coffee with a mate in the park. I'm being generous saying it was questionable competence. Let's hope it was nothing more sinister.
Still, at least they weren't a young lad walking to work. He had to prove his innocence too. Innocence of not actually breaking any laws.
And some people want to extend the reach of those who have taken this past year to demonstrate time and time again that they don't understand legislation. But it's ok for this to happen because Amazons knows where you live.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
The way you walk is as unique as your finger print. They are developing software that gets around the problem of people covering their faces to avoid facial recognition.
The software can also detect somebody that is trying to change their natural gait.
It works perfectly at the moment on a one to one basis, but is still being developed for crowded environments. It's currently 84% effective in a crowd, especially the gait adjusters.
Already developed and used in some less desirable countries.The software can also detect somebody that is trying to change their natural gait.
It works perfectly at the moment on a one to one basis, but is still being developed for crowded environments. It's currently 84% effective in a crowd, especially the gait adjusters.
As for the main topic; nah, f
k off944 Man said:
CrutyRammers said:
Well that didn't take long did it?
Where have I criticised the government for not controlling covid?
Actually, don't bother, just ps off and learn some manners.
You should have identified him as a dick and ignored him.Where have I criticised the government for not controlling covid?
Actually, don't bother, just p
s off and learn some manners.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff