ANPR - Have Your Say

ANPR - Have Your Say

Author
Discussion

MikeT66

2,387 posts

89 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
rallycross said:
SuperBaaaad said:
Cold said:
You were 7.5 miles from your home. Here's a covid fine.
Hahahahaha. Brilliant.
this is the future don't doubt it.
That is the problem, I think; we don't know and can't predict how these things will turn out in the future. Currently used to track down uninsured cars/criminal behaviour? Not many would object, I'd have thought. However, fast-forward a few years and the new "Environmental Impact Law" (or whatever it could be called hehe) means that only on one or two days a week are you allowed to drive your car or restricts your movements/mileage.... or Lockdown 18 is implemented and your movement/driving is strictly curtailed. This might not impact certain car registrations, however, and those in 'approved' roles will still be able to drive to Barnard Castle, visit their (now very peaceful) holiday home or see their mistress... all on lovely quiet roads, unimpeded.

As we already have a massive surveillance network, I don't see that we need any more - the balance is already tipped too far one way.

DaveCWK

1,520 posts

139 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Survey filled out from the POV that mass surveillance is bad; especially so if more people than the police/security service have access to it.

MikeT66

2,387 posts

89 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
DaveCWK said:
Survey filled out from the POV that mass surveillance is bad; especially so if more people than the police/security service have access to it.
Indeed - the recent behaviour of the police forces and councils across the country have shown that additional powers/surveillance would not be judiciously used.

Every day a journey

506 posts

3 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Smiljan said:
Every day a journey said:
Back in 2007 my beloved car was stolen.

3 days later it 'pinged' the ANPR camera going into Toddington Services.

The thief paid for pretrol (who the hell fuels up at motorway prices???) and then as he entered the entry slip back onto the M1 he was met with a three car stop.

I got my beloved car back.

He went to prison.

I like ANPR.
He went to prison for stealing a car eek normally get community service or a fine they'll never pay.
Bit more complex than just stealing the car.

He was a member of my bar staff that had a 'live-in' position at the pub.

He burgled the pub, nicked my car (having nicked my keys from my coat pocket which was hanging up in my office).

In the end he was charged with

  • Burglary non-dwelling
  • TWOC
  • Drink driving
  • Driving with no licence/insurance
Got 44 weeks

Halmyre

9,113 posts

104 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Every day a journey said:
A vital tool in the arsenal of all Police Forces (I refuse to call them a Police Service, they are the Police Force).

ANPR has been absolutely crucial in far more serious cases than 'no insurance' etc.

The only people that would be against it have something to hide.
Stop right there with the "innocent have nothing to fear" bks.

swisstoni

10,789 posts

244 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Halmyre said:
Every day a journey said:
A vital tool in the arsenal of all Police Forces (I refuse to call them a Police Service, they are the Police Force).

ANPR has been absolutely crucial in far more serious cases than 'no insurance' etc.

The only people that would be against it have something to hide.
Stop right there with the "innocent have nothing to fear" bks.
It’s too late anyway.
You don’t leave home without a personal tracker on your pocket.

Baldchap

4,179 posts

57 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
If privacy isn't a basic right for all (including the innocent) then post your logins here for everything (social media, email, WhatsApp etc) as you have nothing to hide.

Personally, I think the US approach to policing (not the killing minorities bit, more the bit where they have enough officers) is a better idea than more electronic monitoring.

Baldchap

4,179 posts

57 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Every day a journey said:
The UK has more CCTV cameras per capita than any other country in the world. I could be worng but there is something like six cameras for every single person (children included) in the UK
This statistic, that has become 'fact' over the years and is reported everywhere, was originally extrapolated from a study done on just two London streets (in Putney IIRC).


Every day a journey

506 posts

3 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Baldchap said:
Every day a journey said:
The UK has more CCTV cameras per capita than any other country in the world. I could be worng but there is something like six cameras for every single person (children included) in the UK
This statistic, that has become 'fact' over the years and is reported everywhere, was originally extrapolated from a study done on just two London streets (in Putney IIRC).
I'd be willing to bet that since that 'study' was conducted the number of cameras has increased somewhat. Just look at the amount of homes now with external CCTV?

Toltec

6,480 posts

188 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Baldchap said:
If privacy isn't a basic right for all (including the innocent) then post your logins here for everything (social media, email, WhatsApp etc) as you have nothing to hide.

Personally, I think the US approach to policing (not the killing minorities bit, more the bit where they have enough officers) is a better idea than more electronic monitoring.
That is the key thing isn't it? People are expensive and technology is cheap, as everyone wants to be well paid and to pay as little as possible for everything this is what we get.

rallycross

11,159 posts

202 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
The proper criminals (the ones you’d really want caught) know how anpr works and know how to get round it (very easily as long as they don’t get stopped) so for most crime anpr is not doing much at all.

Dr Jekyll

21,290 posts

226 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Every day a journey said:
I'd be willing to bet that since that 'study' was conducted the number of cameras has increased somewhat. Just look at the amount of homes now with external CCTV?

Every day a journey

506 posts

3 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
Every day a journey said:
I'd be willing to bet that since that 'study' was conducted the number of cameras has increased somewhat. Just look at the amount of homes now with external CCTV?
That's fake

Durzel

9,811 posts

133 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
How long has CCTV and ANPR been around, and how long have people been prophecising Minority Report "thought crime" nonsense? I feel like it's probably been on its way for as long as cameras have existed.

I'm in favour of ANPR if it prevents or assists in solving crimes, which evidence suggests it does.

I do not personally give a toss how often or where I am recorded, as I'm not doing anything illegal and I'm oblivious to it anyway. It has never impacted my life in the slightest.

I don't understand the mindset of people who persist with the whole "thin end of the wedge" argument, like they're actually important, as if the Government cares about them specifically (outwith committing crimes). They don't, but their internal narrative dictates that these entities care about them.

EDIT: I would also add that the Venn diagram of people moaning about their privacy being sacrosanct and living their life online and walking around with a mobile phone that can be triangulated to a location even without GPS is probably close to being a single circle.

Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 16th February 11:50

Evanivitch

9,163 posts

87 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Durzel said:
How long has CCTV and ANPR been around, and how long have people been prophecising Minority Report "thought crime" nonsense? I feel like it's probably been on its way for as long as cameras have existed.
South Wales Police recently lost a court case for using facial recognition software in public places, so clearly the courts agree there's a line to tracking innocent people.

Durzel said:
I'm in favour of ANPR if it prevents or assists in solving crimes, which evidence suggests it does.

I do not personally give a toss how often or where I am recorded, as I'm not doing anything illegal and I'm oblivious to it anyway. It has never impacted my life in the slightest.
Where do you draw the line? A police camera on your street? Your front door? Your living room? Genuine question, how far is too far to prevent crime because you're not a criminal?

Durzel said:
I don't understand the mindset of people who persist with the whole "thin end of the wedge" argument, like they're actually important, as if the Government cares about them specifically (outwith committing crimes). They don't, but their internal narrative dictates that these entities care about them.
My issue is that they refuse to publish the location of ANPR fixed camera sites on the basis it's of value to criminals. That brushes on the wrong side of protecting civil liberties and intrusion IMO.

donteatpeople

608 posts

239 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
Where do you draw the line? A police camera on your street? Your front door? Your living room? Genuine question, how far is too far to prevent crime because you're not a criminal?
I'd draw the line at public places vs private places. I have an expectation of privacy in private places, I don't understand why anyone would have an expectation of privacy while in a public place. On your scale above that translates into no problem with a camera on my street, definitely no camera in my living room, my front door is a grey area.

Evanivitch said:
That brushes on the wrong side of protecting civil liberties and intrusion IMO.
A genuine question back... What civil liberties are affected by CCTV or ANPR? As I understand them liberties are about doing the things you want to do, I've never been prevented from doing anything legal by a camera. If you have a problem with wanting to do something illegal then surely the root cause of your issue is with the law and not with the camera?

LotusOmega375D

5,418 posts

118 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
How many ANPR cameras is enough though? Also do we really think Plod will drop everything and head off in pursuit of a potential criminal pinged on ANPR? I have been witness to criminal activity involving vehicles and immediately provided the registrations to the Police, but they never followed it up.

Speeding fines are computerised, so easy pickings. I get the benefit of using the cameras for investigating and proving historical crimes, but for day-to-day usage, it’s a bit OTT. I don’t feel any safer for their presence.

LunarOne

1,946 posts

102 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
Durzel said:
I don't understand the mindset of people who persist with the whole "thin end of the wedge" argument, like they're actually important, as if the Government cares about them specifically (outwith committing crimes). They don't, but their internal narrative dictates that these entities care about them.
It's a shame that you don't understand our mindset, because it is people that think the way you do who are allowing the government to control every aspect of your life. You don't have to be engaged in criminal activities to be concerned about this. If I am concerned about being tracked by my mobile phone, then I can choose to switch it off. I cannot choose to switch off my car's numberplate to prevent the government tracking me. If you don't understand the why I say it's the thin end of the wedge, consider those living in the 1970s and 1980s. There was no such thing as facial recognition, and so CCTV, where it existed was only to record crime when it actually happened. It could not be used to track individuals. Right now, we are tracked everywhere we go without our consent. We are billed and charged based on where we have been and what we have been doing. Have you dropped a friend off at the airport? That'll be £5. Did you spend more than 10 minutes doing it? Thats £25 thank you. Did you travel between these two points on this road in less than this amount of time? That's £100 thank you.

In the near future, we won't be able to go anywhere or do anything without being billed. It's a tax on being alive that you cannot escape from. I'm sorry if you are so pusillanimous that you're happy to roll over and let this happen to you, but I don't agree with the creeping control that is overtaking our lives and I do not wish to be complicit in allowing it through my own inaction.

ddom

3,727 posts

13 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
I'd rather the money deployed on front line officers, but, it's pretty obvious that's not a priority. Besides, speeding soon will be a thing of the past, all the EV's will be restricted to the local limit, it's going to be brilliant.

deckster

5,867 posts

220 months

Tuesday 16th February
quotequote all
LunarOne said:
It's a shame that you don't understand our mindset, because it is people that think the way you do who are allowing the government to control every aspect of your life.
Hyperbole much? Care to give specific examples of how the government is controlling "every aspect of your life"?

(outside of the current Covid restrictions, which I trust you will allow are exceptional)