JD Power 2021 results

Author
Discussion

smallredball

122 posts

37 months

Monday 22nd February 2021
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Driver101 said:
How cars take part in the US survey?
^ Needs more words.

piquet

613 posts

256 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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lowdrag said:
When was the last time that Jaguar and Land Rover were out of the bottom five? You only have to follow the forums on Facebook to know about all the problems. Having to change a battery every three years for example, because the car is so susceptible to voltage drop. Jesus, I have had three Mercedes in 25 years and have changed one battery in over 400,000 miles. One I bought new in 2001 and sold it with the same battery 250,000 later. I have bought one new Jaguar in all my life and over 10 months it was in the dealers for three of those. Three new sets of wheels because all the lacquer fell off, gearbox showing limp home mode, window sticking down, and front suspension collapsing. All in 10,000 miles. I've spent only £4,000 in repairs on my Mercedes in those last 25 years.
80k in an xj350 xjr never had a problem just the usual consumables
120k in 2 xj351 odd niggle fixed under warranty without the slightest problem, only let me down when i've had a puncture

never needed a battery, never even had a low battery warning

the problem with the internet is it messes peoples perception, have friends with mercs, porsches and bmws who have all spent so much more time being fixed

h0b0

7,559 posts

195 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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talksthetorque said:
JD Power : Porsche : 2 of 34
Warranty Wise : 37 of 40.

So Porsche are fine for the first few years, but break down expensively once they hit the non-franchised used market?



Edited by talksthetorque on Monday 22 February 22:23
It’s more that when a Porsche fails the repair is expensive. I don’t believe JD Power capture the cost hence the difference. Same for Bentley. Tesla are just crap.

For example, the battery on my Cayenne died this weekend and they wanted $1200 to replace it. The battery is a $180 VW part. They wanted $5000 to replace the brakes. An oil change is $800 and a major service will be $2000 once you leave.

I changed the battery and brakes and I use an independent for service.

Lexington59

974 posts

64 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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What a horrible result for Land Rover!

Amusing all the idiots on here trying to criticise the data... laugh I certainly would never buy a Land Rover.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

233 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Oilchange said:
Porsche so high up? Mmmm.
Indeed. Bore scoring,IMS, Kidney bowls etc. Surely.rhey would have impacted things? smile

wormus

14,509 posts

202 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Lexington59 said:
What a horrible result for Land Rover!

Amusing all the idiots on here trying to criticise the data... laugh I certainly would never buy a Land Rover.


What a horrible result for Porsche!

I laugh in the faces of the people who claim their cars are more reliable or have fewer, cheaper warranty claims than they do! I’d never buy a Porsche !!!

This will cheer you up!

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/searc...

rofl



Edited by wormus on Tuesday 23 February 07:59

Lexington59

974 posts

64 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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That warranty direct one looks like old data, the car by car bit only has old models (e.g. the 997).

Plus didn’t think PH was a fan of WD after certain dodgy dealings relating to a BMW M5 claim.

Don’t get me wrong, Porsche at no.2 in the JD Power one surprises me as well.

But I’d still never buy a Land Rover... laugh


AngryPartsBloke

1,436 posts

150 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Lexington59 said:
What a horrible result for Land Rover!

Amusing all the idiots on here trying to criticise the data... laugh I certainly would never buy a Land Rover.
Yet a lot of people buy them and they get a lot of repeat business?

Doofus

25,732 posts

172 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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It appears there's perhaps a correlation between cost and reliability. The more expensive cars seem to be less reliable.

Of course this will be partially down to complexity, but I wonder if it's also partly driven by expectation.

smallredball

122 posts

37 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Doofus said:
It appears there's perhaps a correlation between cost and reliability. The more expensive cars seem to be less reliable.

Of course this will be partially down to complexity, but I wonder if it's also partly driven by expectation.
I think there's some sort of 'automotive Stockholm Syndrome' going on, too.

Newton472

165 posts

41 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Lots of frothing on this thread.

That WD index looks positively ancient judging by some of the cars listed there and the complete absence of anything from 2012(?) on.

Porsche have clearly much improved since the days of the IMS and bore score issues much evident on their earlier cars.

That is an abysmal showing for Land Rover however. They are always near the bottom of most reliability tables despite what some of the more 'misguided' fanboys on here post.

The 'Which' survey give Land Rover their lowest ratings too, one star for 0-3 years old and one star 3-8 years. But even if you don't believe the surveys (the earth is flat etc) just read some of their owners' forums, the sheer volume of issues is simply staggering.

As a couple of posters said above, I'd certainly never buy one. Which is a shame as I do quite like the new Defender after watching the Harry's Garage review.

Still some are clearly status obsessed and will continue to buy any old ste as long as it has the right badge on it, just look at VAG. Utterly ste products and dealer service yet they sell by the bucket load.


TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Lexington59 said:
What a horrible result for Land Rover!

Amusing all the idiots on here trying to criticise the data... laugh I certainly would never buy a Land Rover.
Me neither. I can't believe how many 20 and 70 plate Land Rover made vehicles I see with rear lights not working properly, or blown. The verdict I get from people I know who have had them seems to be "great car (when it's working), but never again"

leef44

4,359 posts

152 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Both JD Power and the Reliability survey from WD are good data sources. However, you do need to understand the context when reading them.

JD Power is data from customers so as a large enough statistical population, it does give a reasonable picture. Faults can be minor or major so many niggly little electrical faults gets a worse rating than one major engine failure. Customers getting poor service from dealers will tend to rate them worse.

For a manufacturer to be near the bottom of the JD Power list, year after year, does tell you something which cannot be ignored.

WD's data will be based on repairs which they were willing to accept and executed, for them to have the cost data. There are a large number of issues which consumers experience which are rejected as valid claims. This is a large part of a warranty company's business (to reject claims). So this is not a complete picture. However, again, if a manufacture is low on that list, then it is saying something which cannot be ignored.

Andeh1

7,107 posts

205 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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gts.981 said:
Andeh1 said:
No they're not.
Yes they are.
Lexington59 said:
What a horrible result for Land Rover!

Amusing all the idiots on here trying to criticise the data... laugh I certainly would never buy a Land Rover.
Data is just that... data. OP is being petty for claiming they're st. The reality is they are not.

They are big, complicated & loaded to the rafters with toys, of course I wouldn't risk my life driving it across the Sahara...but when I am stuck in traffic, I could watch a film (or TV), with massage ventilated seats, with 21 speakers, sitting in supreme comfort on air suspension waiting for the traffic to clear to use 700Nm of torque to out launch 90% of those around me. My wife could sit there & watch what she wants to watch, and the kids have their own films on whilst we wait for the fridge to cool our drinks & lunch and the 4 zone to keep us all at our localised ideal temperatures....should we wish to.

No st vehicle with half the features has half the reliability issues...but where's the fun in that!?





TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Andeh1 said:
Data is just that... data. OP is being petty for claiming they're st. The reality is they are not.

They are big, complicated & loaded to the rafters with toys, of course I wouldn't risk my life driving it across the Sahara...but when I am stuck in traffic, I could watch a film (or TV), with massage ventilated seats, with 21 speakers, sitting in supreme comfort on air suspension waiting for the traffic to clear to use 700Nm of torque to out launch 90% of those around me. My wife could sit there & watch what she wants to watch, and the kids have their own films on whilst we wait for the fridge to cool our drinks & lunch and the 4 zone to keep us all at our localised ideal temperatures....should we wish to.

No st vehicle with half the features has half the reliability issues...but where's the fun in that!?
One of those Lexus SUVs would probably give you all that, yet somehow they manage to finish at the opposite end of the table.

SuperPav

1,074 posts

124 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Having been involved with trying to address JDP scores, and having worked for two of the manufacturers mentioned numerously in this thread I can offer some insight.

JDP is a very well established and quite robust statistical survey in US... there are three surveys:

JDP APPEAL - which as it suggests measures the appeal of a newly purchased vehicle. LR tend to do really well in these.
JDP IQS (initial quality survey) - this measures number of issues within the first 90 days of ownership. LR tend to do really poorly in these.
JDP Dependability study - this measures issues/problems reported at 3 years of age. LR always do poorly here. This last one is what the OP posted.

The sample size of JDP is pretty good for most mainstream brands, so it is generally "representative". There is definitely an expectation bias, specifically, a fault may be something like a door rattle. This does not get scored by most people as an issue in something like a Kia, but WOULD get scored on something like a Bentley. Similarly, the more tech features a car has, the more likely it is that the operation or reliability of one of them would at some point during ownership impact or annoy a customer, and they'd raise it as an issue. Usability is also a strong factor, and manufacturers pay JDP money to consult them on how to improve scores when designing cars. Something simple like a poor control logic/ergonomics (hello mk8 golf) can lead to a lot of points on the survey, even if the vehicle doesn't technically have a manufacturing fault.

The other thing about these surveys is they tend to snowball - if you've had a couple of issues, you'll find and report even more issues, whereas if you're overall very happy with the car and the experience, you'll let stuff fly.

This all explains why Toyota etc. tend to consistently do well, year after year. However, it also shows that it IS possible to cram technology and reliability into a car, which is why Lexus manage to be near the top often enough too. At this age, Porsche are also consistently reliable and have been for years - indeed the 996 topped the ranking during its time, despite all the "common maladies"..


Comparing this with WarrantyWise/WarrantyDirect is neither here nor there. JDP is not concerned with 10-20 year old cars, and the 3rd party Warranty co's will have no data on cars under 3 years old. They are very different subsets and very different coverage of their samples, as the third party warranty surveys can only go off their internal claims data.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Kia - my experience checks out.

Porsche, not so much.

Need a Lexus in my life.

FA57REN

1,013 posts

54 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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colin86 said:
Didn’t think Honda would be as low
Particularly when Acura are so high, being ... a Honda brand.

The Fit, Civic and CR-V are badged as Honda so perhaps indicates an issue with the lower-tier platforms.

Edit: Looks like the Fit was produced in Mexico instead of the joint lines in the USA and has now been dropped from the US market.




Edited by FA57REN on Tuesday 23 February 15:59

gts.981

Original Poster:

136 posts

44 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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Andeh1 said:
gts.981 said:
Andeh1 said:
No they're not.
Yes they are.
Lexington59 said:
What a horrible result for Land Rover!

Amusing all the idiots on here trying to criticise the data... laugh I certainly would never buy a Land Rover.
Data is just that... data. OP is being petty for claiming they're st. The reality is they are not.

They are big, complicated & loaded to the rafters with toys, of course I wouldn't risk my life driving it across the Sahara...but when I am stuck in traffic, I could watch a film (or TV), with massage ventilated seats, with 21 speakers, sitting in supreme comfort on air suspension waiting for the traffic to clear to use 700Nm of torque to out launch 90% of those around me. My wife could sit there & watch what she wants to watch, and the kids have their own films on whilst we wait for the fridge to cool our drinks & lunch and the 4 zone to keep us all at our localised ideal temperatures....should we wish to.

No st vehicle with half the features has half the reliability issues...but where's the fun in that!?
Yeah like whatever....... nuts

Previous

1,434 posts

153 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2021
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I can only assume that being seen to be able to keep a JLR product on the road is as much part of the 'status symbol', in terms of wealth projection, as the actual product!