JD Power 2021 results

[lowdrag]

When running my company we had two particular cars on the fleet which coincidentally had problems one month out of warranty. The Disco's central locking failed, needing new solenoids all round. and a Beemer was found to have a snapped head stud needing a new head. BMW paid in full saying it was obvious that the problem was there while still under warranty, Land Rover mentioned sex and travel. It is these attitudes also that create buying patterns as well as reports like JD.

[eliot]

i assume there was a specific reason all the locks needed changing?

[Andeh1]

gts.981 said:

Andeh1 said:

gts.981 said:

Andeh1 said:

No they're not.

Yes they are.

Lexington59 said:

What a horrible result for Land Rover!

Amusing all the idiots on here trying to criticise the data... I certainly would never buy a Land Rover.

Data is just that... data. OP is being petty for claiming they're st. The reality is they are not.

They are big, complicated & loaded to the rafters with toys, of course I wouldn't risk my life driving it across the Sahara...but when I am stuck in traffic, I could watch a film (or TV), with massage ventilated seats, with 21 speakers, sitting in supreme comfort on air suspension waiting for the traffic to clear to use 700Nm of torque to out launch 90% of those around me. My wife could sit there & watch what she wants to watch, and the kids have their own films on whilst we wait for the fridge to cool our drinks & lunch and the 4 zone to keep us all at our localised ideal temperatures....should we wish to.

No st vehicle with half the features has half the reliability issues...but where's the fun in that!?

Yeah like whatever.......

You wanted a discussion, why turn childish?

[lowdrag]

eliot said:

i assume there was a specific reason all the locks needed changing?

They told us a short circuit had burned out the solenoids and the bill was £600. It was an employees car so I wasn't much involved - except when the bill dropped on the mat.

[lowdrag]

eliot said:

i assume there was a specific reason all the locks needed changing?

They told us a short circuit had burned out the solenoids and the bill was £600. It was an employees car so I wasn't much involved - except when the bill dropped on the mat. We sold the car when the employee left and the purchaser had the team who prepared them for the Camel Trophy look over the car, and they really went through it with a fine tooth comb. One month later the buyer phoned asking for his money back. The gearbox had broken requiring a new one. Not our problem naturally, but glad we got rid of it just the same.

[swisstoni]

If this survey actually mattered to buyers we would all be driving Toyota/Lexus. But we clearly aren’t.

Fortunately for LR and a few other big names, their party trick is making vehicles people want.

[anonymous-user]

Previous said:

I can only assume that being seen to be able to keep a JLR product on the road is as much part of the 'status symbol', in terms of wealth projection, as the actual product!

Landrover’s have achieved legendary status on here for being unreliable, mainly from people who’ve never owned one but knew a mate who’s mate had one. I’ve owned several and so has my Dad since the 1970s and so has my father in law, current one being a D5. The V8 County my Dad owned was a bit of a heap (not a Disco) but apart from that they’ve been fine. Probably 20 of the things between us.

Today, seems the pinnacle of motoring authority for most PHers is a BMW M4 on lease or some sort of VAG white goods POS. There are loads of better cars out there if you can afford to buy and run one.

I’d gladly have another.

[Baldchap]

So Lexus cars suffer 81 problems per 100 vehicles? Meaning less than 1 in 5 is problem free? And they're the absolute best for sale for reliability?

Am I reading the data correctly?

If I am, I'm not sure I believe those numbers. In our last 7 new cars we've had just one that needed warranty work (that was obviously our Tesla ).

[Baldchap]

wormus said:

Landrover’s have achieved legendary status on here for being unreliable, mainly from people who’ve never owned one but knew a mate who’s mate had one. I’ve owned several and so has my Dad since the 1970s and so has my father in law, current one being a D5. The V8 County my Dad owned was a bit of a heap (not a Disco) but apart from that they’ve been fine. Probably 20 of the things between us.

Today, seems the pinnacle of motoring authority for most PHers is a BMW M4 on lease or some sort of VAG white goods POS. There are loads of better cars out there if you can afford to buy and run one.

I’d gladly have another.

There undoubtedly are. They just aren't sold by Tata/JLR.

Your anecdotal evidence isn't better than a study of hundreds of thousands of new cars.

[anonymous-user]

Baldchap said:

There undoubtedly are. They just aren't sold by Tata/JLR.

Your anecdotal evidence isn't better than a study of hundreds of thousands of new cars.

Only in your opinion and to reaffirm your confirmation bias. How many JLR products have you owned, did you have a poor experience?

Besides how is my evidence anecdotal if it’s my lived experience, based on fact?

[john41901]

Hmmm a well known index using a big statistical sample based on actual data that all the manufacturers take note of vs one random guy on the internet's personal experience. Which carries more weight... Hmmm

[swisstoni]

john41901 said:

Hmmm a well known index using a big statistical sample based on actual data that all the manufacturers take note of vs one random guy on the internet's personal experience. Which carries more weight... Hmmm

I wonder how many Alfa Romeos were sold in the US in the year. I doubt it would qualify as a ‘big statistical sample’.
But there they are, plastered at the bottom of the table for all to see.

[anonymous-user]

john41901 said:

Hmmm a well known index using a big statistical sample based on actual data that all the manufacturers take note of vs one random guy on the internet's personal experience. Which carries more weight... Hmmm

My own experience means more to me so I’ll continue buying them, others don’t have to if the guide scares them into buying something else. Based on the data we should all be buying Kias or Chevrolets but we don’t.

What gets my goat is a bunch of randoms on PH proclaiming themselves experts in JLR products when they’ve never even sat in one.

[john41901]

swisstoni said:

john41901 said:

Hmmm a well known index using a big statistical sample based on actual data that all the manufacturers take note of vs one random guy on the internet's personal experience. Which carries more weight... Hmmm

I wonder how many Alfa Romeos were sold in the US in the year. I doubt it would qualify as a ‘big statistical sample’.
But there they are, plastered at the bottom of the table for all to see.

They sold a few...

https://carsalesbase.com/us-alfa-romeo/

Still one better than Land Rover though...

[smallredball]

swisstoni said:

I wonder how many Alfa Romeos were sold in the US in the year. I doubt it would qualify as a ‘big statistical sample’.
But there they are, plastered at the bottom of the table for all to see.

That statistical anomaly can work both ways: they could have been booted up the table by good luck. But they weren't, and they never are (if you were right, you'd expect AR to be all over the place in reliability surveys). It's not an anomaly.

[smallredball]

wormus said:

john41901 said:

Hmmm a well known index using a big statistical sample based on actual data that all the manufacturers take note of vs one random guy on the internet's personal experience. Which carries more weight... Hmmm

My own experience means more to me so I’ll continue buying them, others don’t have to if the guide scares them into buying something else. Based on the data we should all be buying Kias or Chevrolets but we don’t.

What gets my goat is a bunch of randoms on PH proclaiming themselves experts in JLR products when they’ve never even sat in one.

Which is fair enough. But nothing to do with the truth of the matter: JLR products are relatively unreliable.

[300bhp/ton]

Lexington59 said:

What a horrible result for Land Rover!

Amusing all the idiots on here trying to criticise the data... I certainly would never buy a Land Rover.

Then more fool you tbh.

[300bhp/ton]

gts.981 said:

Land Rover they’re st.

Understanding the stats would help here. And as always, stats alone don't really tell you anything unless you know the meaning behind them. But you have clearly not even understood at a base level.


Lexus = 81% of people have an issue with the vehicle.

Industry average = 100% of people have an issue. With another 1/5th having a 2nd issue.

Land Rover = 100% of people have 2 issues and some a 3rd.


81 to 244 might seem like a long way. But it really isn't the vastness it is made out to be. For the majority of the people in the table, the experience is likely to quite similar as almost every make has 1or more issues per 100 cars. And those that don't are very close to 100%.


Also bear in mind that Land Rover build pretty much exclusively 4wd vehicles that are generally complex. With the same component failure rate but having more components would automatically give you a lower score.

e.g.

2wd vehicle has:

• 1 diff
• 2 driveshafts
• maybe 1 propshaft if rwd or none if fwd

4wd vehicle has:

• 3 diffs
• 4 driveshafts
• 2 propshafts

If you had the same failure rate of 1 in 100 and built 10,000 cars. The more complex car by shear numbers would have more failure rates. (N.B. I'm not saying these are the items that fail, just giving an easy to understand example of complexity differences).


The figures support this to some extent, as Jaguar uses largely the same components as Land Rover built in the same places, from the same supply chain. But most Jaguars are less complex than Land Rovers, so they have a lower score.

Jeep are probably the only directly comparable vehicle on the list to Land Rover.

[300bhp/ton]

Baldchap said:

So Lexus cars suffer 81 problems per 100 vehicles? Meaning less than 1 in 5 is problem free? And they're the absolute best for sale for reliability?

Am I reading the data correctly?

If I am, I'm not sure I believe those numbers. In our last 7 new cars we've had just one that needed warranty work (that was obviously our Tesla ).

You are reading it correctly. But this is only an average. Remember you could get 1 car with 12 issues and others with none type of thing.

Also you'd need to delve into the data to see what the reported problems were. Dealer experience also is likely to cloud such figures. You might have a small issue that the dealer solves straight away at no cost. So you might not even mention it in the survey. While another dealer/make might make a real fuss over wanting to solve it or charge through the nose. This is then far more likely to be noted as a problem.

I haven't checked the latest data, but I suspect problems can be accounted from mechanical issues to software glitches.

And of course there is public opinion that might sway things too. It almost seems fashionable to post up if you have an issue with a Land Rover product (even if it is minor or not even really an issue). Yet it seems decidedly unpopular to post up issues about brands such as Lexus or Toyota, either through embarrassment, as your reason for buying may have been based on reliability. Or even from fear of being ridiculed and ripped into on forums such as PH.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

wormus said:

What gets my goat is a bunch of randoms on PH proclaiming themselves experts in JLR products when they’ve never even sat in one.

Of all the people I know who have a downer on Land Rover products, the biggest critics are all previous owners. These people have sat in one, far too often on the hard shoulder waiting for the breakdown van.

In general, they are not reliable vehicles. I'm not sure, based on the wealth of evidence from so many sources, how this can be disputed, even if you've got or had a faultless one.