Run a car to end of its life
Discussion
The car itself lasts though and it doesn’t really matter how many owners it has in that time.
Arguably those who can afford it buying or leasing EVs means more in the secondhand market down the line, and hence more affordable to most so better all round. How long they last is key, and ultimately we live in a society where labour is quite expensive but secondhand cars are cheap which really limits how long many are kept on the road for. One big fault can be more than buying a newer, fresher example so that’s exactly what people do.
Arguably those who can afford it buying or leasing EVs means more in the secondhand market down the line, and hence more affordable to most so better all round. How long they last is key, and ultimately we live in a society where labour is quite expensive but secondhand cars are cheap which really limits how long many are kept on the road for. One big fault can be more than buying a newer, fresher example so that’s exactly what people do.
I know people who do this. Current record has to be a former colleague (now retired) who still runs the Mini Cooper his dad bought new in the 60s.
One couple I know are not into cars in the slightest, but they like to buy things to last and do a lot of camping, outdoors events etc. So, they bought a Passat 4wd estate thing with the intention they would run it until it couldn't be run any more. It's about 10 years and counting now. They're the sort of people who will start making their own biofuel when you can't buy petrol anymore, so EVs are no threat
One couple I know are not into cars in the slightest, but they like to buy things to last and do a lot of camping, outdoors events etc. So, they bought a Passat 4wd estate thing with the intention they would run it until it couldn't be run any more. It's about 10 years and counting now. They're the sort of people who will start making their own biofuel when you can't buy petrol anymore, so EVs are no threat
Muddle238 said:
The consumer trend to replace a car every three years somewhat narrows that gap between ICE and EV, so much so that I agree, keeping an existing ICE car going for many years is far less damaging than PCPing a brand new EV every three years.
It doesn't need a lot of thinking to realise that this is very true. Unfortunately, business is business and the car industry are never going to encourage us to keep or old cars longer.And most people are more than happy to think the opposite and believe that buying a new more efficient car or indeed an EV will save the planet because its nice to have something new and shiny on the drive.
I have a 2002 Range Rover L322 petrol V8 which I bought in May 2005 - just before it’s third birthday. I’m 60 now so have had it for over a quarter of my life
It’s now on 139,000 and after nearly 16 years of ownership it has presented me with a couple of big bills but nothing that has made me consider ditching it. I fully expect to keep it going until it is only fit for the scrapyard.
It has only let me down once when the alternator went. The RAC came out and the man lent me a new battery, got me going and escorted me to my local indie and swapped the batteries back over again.
It is not worth much now so depreciation per year is pretty well zero percent. I don’t do may miles so fuel costs aren’t very high. I do a lot of basic servicing myself with bigger jobs going to the local indie. There will be a day when it isn’t viable to get it mended anymore but until then I’m sticking with it.
It’s now on 139,000 and after nearly 16 years of ownership it has presented me with a couple of big bills but nothing that has made me consider ditching it. I fully expect to keep it going until it is only fit for the scrapyard.
It has only let me down once when the alternator went. The RAC came out and the man lent me a new battery, got me going and escorted me to my local indie and swapped the batteries back over again.
It is not worth much now so depreciation per year is pretty well zero percent. I don’t do may miles so fuel costs aren’t very high. I do a lot of basic servicing myself with bigger jobs going to the local indie. There will be a day when it isn’t viable to get it mended anymore but until then I’m sticking with it.
I’ve got a 2008 A4 estate, I purchased second hand in 2010 with 30k miles, now has 140k, there’s battle scars from where a flatbed hit the rear quarter and resembles a farm inside (mud, straw, wellies etc) as mrs uses it for stables. It hasn’t be cleaned in nearly a year but we keep on top of maintainance, fluids etc. It’s borderline embarrassing but we don’t have any reason or need to replace it. It owes us nothing and due to covid we’re doing minimal miles.
Not that it is going to kick in immediately, but the looming restrictions on ICE cars might affect how long a person might keep a car.
I would like to keep my ICE car going as long as possible, so that when it does have to be replaced, I just switch to whatever replacement type, has then been determined as being the best.
Whether or not it would actually last that long is another matter, but that would be my sort of loose plan for the future. On the basis that as much as possible was got from it,
The idea of just throwing away any vehicle, that still has a lot of use left in it seems wrong somehow.
I would like to keep my ICE car going as long as possible, so that when it does have to be replaced, I just switch to whatever replacement type, has then been determined as being the best.
Whether or not it would actually last that long is another matter, but that would be my sort of loose plan for the future. On the basis that as much as possible was got from it,
The idea of just throwing away any vehicle, that still has a lot of use left in it seems wrong somehow.
Pan Pan Pan said:
The idea of just throwing away any vehicle, that still has a lot of use left in it seems wrong somehow.
That's exactly what billions of us do across the world, over and over again.Once a car has lost its shiny new appeal and the Qdos that comes with it, we convince ourselves that a new one is needed.
"Its nearly 3 years old, its got 40,000miles on it now. Its going to start costing us a lot of money soon and it won't be reliable anymore." Load of nonsense.
Edited by Lincsls1 on Monday 1st March 12:31
One of my cars was built in November 1950.
It’s currently being restored so it can continue to enjoy life for many many more years.
Although like many cars, it hit a point where it’s value was not to nothing, turned from a Land Rover into a trials car and used for many years in various clubs as a trails car.
Arguably, that’s what kept it from being scrapped.
It’s now being rebuilt so it can continue its trials competitive life but also be road legal as it still has its V5.
It’s currently being restored so it can continue to enjoy life for many many more years.
Although like many cars, it hit a point where it’s value was not to nothing, turned from a Land Rover into a trials car and used for many years in various clubs as a trails car.
Arguably, that’s what kept it from being scrapped.
It’s now being rebuilt so it can continue its trials competitive life but also be road legal as it still has its V5.
Good article about keeping our (electric) vehicles for longer, to help the environment
https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/new-cars/which-c...
Not good for manufacturers though, if people keep cars for longer
https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/new-cars/which-c...
Not good for manufacturers though, if people keep cars for longer
My dad bought his current car 18 years ago, in 2003. A brand new BMW X5. 3.0 petrol, auto. Some toys on it, around £40,000. Went with him to collect it.
Still got it, and it's covered 254,000 miles. It's been everywhere and done everything. It's looking a bit worse for wear now, but still does what it needs to. No point in getting rid of it until the wheels come off.
Still got it, and it's covered 254,000 miles. It's been everywhere and done everything. It's looking a bit worse for wear now, but still does what it needs to. No point in getting rid of it until the wheels come off.
Trouble is, it's not as if cars are completely reliable until one day they suffer catastrophic failure and get scrapped. Unless the car has serious rust, anything is fixable if you are prepared to spend the money.
In my experience more and more things go wrong until you get sick of spending any more money on it and buy something newer. I would say most cars get scrapped after they fail the MOT for lots of small things, or when something major like the clutch or cambelt goes.
Years ago people would have thought nothing of changing a clutch or even rebuilding an engine but people don't really bother now. Most people when told that a clutch on their 15 year old Mondeo costs a grand would just go and trade it in against something else.
I would love to know the amount of people who buy a car new and drive it until it pokes a conrod out of the block.
In my experience more and more things go wrong until you get sick of spending any more money on it and buy something newer. I would say most cars get scrapped after they fail the MOT for lots of small things, or when something major like the clutch or cambelt goes.
Years ago people would have thought nothing of changing a clutch or even rebuilding an engine but people don't really bother now. Most people when told that a clutch on their 15 year old Mondeo costs a grand would just go and trade it in against something else.
I would love to know the amount of people who buy a car new and drive it until it pokes a conrod out of the block.
motorhole said:
Lincsls1 said:
This is entirely correct.
In reality, most ordinary folk get rid of their cars well before genuine end of life. Like decades before.
Most cars, certainly post 2000 can do 250k miles easily with the odd splash of cash as required. Even when that splash of cash turns out to be worth more than the car, the truth is it will be much less than buying another.
And we all know that new and nearly new cars have issues too.
,
Absolutely this. I wonder about that argument 'work worth more than the value of the car'. But if you get a £1k bill on a car worth say £500 (e.g. cambelt service + new brakes & pads all round and a couple tyres)- but you know it's a good car - wtf else are you gonna do with that £1k? Put it towards an unknown £2k shed? Or a deposit for a £20k new car? Or something middle of the road for £10k? Seems to me that the big bill is the most financially sound option. Just a bill that costs more than the value of a car on its own isn't enough reason to move a good car on imo. It's what both the car and the value of the bill are worth to you that matters.In reality, most ordinary folk get rid of their cars well before genuine end of life. Like decades before.
Most cars, certainly post 2000 can do 250k miles easily with the odd splash of cash as required. Even when that splash of cash turns out to be worth more than the car, the truth is it will be much less than buying another.
And we all know that new and nearly new cars have issues too.
,
Now if a car throws 2 or 3 big unexpected bills in a year, that's valid reason to cut losses and move on. I tend to think of what it's costing on average in maintenance and repairs PA to keep a car going and reliable vs. cost of a new car on loan/finance/lease and any associated running costs - plus a plush factor for the benefit of being in something nicer/better equipped too. Basically, if maintenance and repairs start to creep up to £1k+ a year for 2-3 years on the trot (on a fairly mundane motor, not something exotic or special with expensive parts/specialist labour) then it's time to consider something to replace it. And an average of £1k a year is enough to keep most regular hatchbacks/saloons running for a pretty long time.
Noticed 2nd thread poster reports had a Fabia for 14 years. We had ours for 15 going on 16 years, the frequency of faults in the engine bay and dashboard wiring got to the point where I'd got fed up of tracing and fixing faults. Had run it with a number of inconsequential issues, dashboard lights on for a while, then got something that meant not going to pass next test and I was stumped just could not gaffer it. For me to sort it properly would have meant stripping out and replacing the engine bay loom at least, instrument binnacle sent off for reworking and sorting out a number of dry joints, and maybe some of the dashboard loom being replaced, even then no guarantee, plus problem of recoding keys and immobiliser etc. Or put it into a garage at whatever pounds an hour searching for various faults, some intermittent just to add to the complication. All for a car worth maybe 250/350 as it stood but in fine nick both oily bits and body.
It spent time as a project in the corner for the local garage apprentice getting him to figure out what the issues were, and in the end after hours and hours of work is serving its days out as a customer loan car, now 19 years old and counting.
The mighty family Honda Jazz is a candidate for this thread.
New in April 2004, 1 year as a second car, 11 years with my old Mum, then back to us for the recent few years with what were two teenagers who are now in their twenties. Edit: And my old Mum replaced this Jazz with the same again, only auto. It’ll outlast her, I’m sad to say.
The car refuses to die, obviously, ‘cos it’s a Honda. Routine servicing, much neglect and abuse, laughable bodywork and it starts first time after standing for a fortnight. It’s outrageously practical into the bargain.
This car will probably remain with us until it does actually die. Neither of the lads, one of whom has moved out but lives nearby, show any desire to lease themselves something new given there’s a free Jazz available. And this generation seems to not be quite as bothered about cars as mine was.
Epic car.
Our next “keep it til it dies” candidate will probably be the Mrs’ Lexus NX that we got new in 2017. 3.5 hearts in - not a squeak, rattle or niggling fault to be seen.
New in April 2004, 1 year as a second car, 11 years with my old Mum, then back to us for the recent few years with what were two teenagers who are now in their twenties. Edit: And my old Mum replaced this Jazz with the same again, only auto. It’ll outlast her, I’m sad to say.
The car refuses to die, obviously, ‘cos it’s a Honda. Routine servicing, much neglect and abuse, laughable bodywork and it starts first time after standing for a fortnight. It’s outrageously practical into the bargain.
This car will probably remain with us until it does actually die. Neither of the lads, one of whom has moved out but lives nearby, show any desire to lease themselves something new given there’s a free Jazz available. And this generation seems to not be quite as bothered about cars as mine was.
Epic car.
Our next “keep it til it dies” candidate will probably be the Mrs’ Lexus NX that we got new in 2017. 3.5 hearts in - not a squeak, rattle or niggling fault to be seen.
Edited by BikeSausage on Monday 1st March 15:35
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Neighbour of mine has a 1995 Micra K11 that he bought new, to run until the end of it's life. He's 83 now, car has done nearly 400K miles and it still going strong. He says the car has decided to run him to the end of his life!!
That’s some miles per year for a pensioner to be racking up?Lincsls1 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
The idea of just throwing away any vehicle, that still has a lot of use left in it seems wrong somehow.
That's exactly what billions of us do across the world, over and over again.Once a car has lost its shiny new appeal and the Qdos that comes with it, we convince ourselves that a new one is needed.
"Its nearly 3 years old, its got 40,000miles on it now. Its going to start costing us a lot of money soon and it won't be reliable anymore." Load of nonsense.
Edited by Lincsls1 on Monday 1st March 12:31
No, it just goes into the used car market and gets picked up by someone else, rinse and repeat until it's beyond economical repair. Without people buying/leasing new cars there would be no choice for those with reduced budgets.
This virtue signalling by people who run old cars always makes me laugh. If it suits you great, but some of use like the latest tech/safety and rely on our cars to earn a living so like to be covered by a manufacturer's warranty.
Judging by most the replies, it seems to be a trait of a generation older than me to keep cars so long. I do keep cars for some length of time (our VW camper is nine years ownership, Nissan Note eight years).
My Dad used to buy new and run cars into the ground. Unfortunately, this didn't work very well with BL products.
So 1976 was an Austin Allegro Estate.
1986 Austin Maestro 1.6
1994 Rover 214i
Then in 2004, he bought a Honda Civic, which did not die prematurely, but he replaced with a Honda Jazz in 2016. All cars were bought new (or ex-demo) and sold as spares or repair except the Honda's.
My Father in law has a BMW 316i compact which he has owned from new since 1995. I think he has done about 70k in it.
My Dad used to buy new and run cars into the ground. Unfortunately, this didn't work very well with BL products.
So 1976 was an Austin Allegro Estate.
1986 Austin Maestro 1.6
1994 Rover 214i
Then in 2004, he bought a Honda Civic, which did not die prematurely, but he replaced with a Honda Jazz in 2016. All cars were bought new (or ex-demo) and sold as spares or repair except the Honda's.
My Father in law has a BMW 316i compact which he has owned from new since 1995. I think he has done about 70k in it.
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