RE: Audi RS e-tron GT | UK Review
Discussion
whp1983 said:
Surely focussing on weight removal is best way to achieve extra range and performance- imagine lopping half a ton of this?!
It obviously has an effect, but the fact EVs can reclaim at least some of their kinetic energy under braking (quite a lot of the braking is gentle) means weight has far less of an effect on an EV's efficiency than an ICE's. If they want to increase the range, EV makers are far better off chasing drag reduction than weight reduction. kambites said:
whp1983 said:
Surely focussing on weight removal is best way to achieve extra range and performance- imagine lopping half a ton of this?!
It obviously has an effect, but the fact EVs can reclaim at least some of their kinetic energy under braking (quite a lot of the braking is gentle) means weight has far less of an effect on an EV's efficiency than an ICE's. If they want to increase the range, EV makers are far better off chasing drag reduction than weight reduction. When is the big question though, EV's work for some folk now, that will be the catalyst for making them viable for a lot more. I think it will happen, I wouldn't bet against it but how long and will they be financially viable for cars that aren't 100 grand or more ?
I think that would bring the weight in line with ICE cars, possibly even undercut as less weight in the battery, can reduce weight elsewhere and less power is used carting the battery round so it doesnt need to be as big. A Model 3 battery is half a ton, take 200 kilos out of that and the car is down around 1500/1600 kilos, same or lighter than a comparable ICE car.
J4CKO said:
When is the big question though, EV's work for some folk now, that will be the catalyst for making them viable for a lot more. I think it will happen, I wouldn't bet against it but how long and will they be financially viable for cars that aren't 100 grand or more ?
I think current battery technoligy is perfectly capable of producing cars which are viable for the huge majority of people as long as public charging infrastructure keeps up with their sales. You can buy a perfectly good family EV which will do at least 100 miles in any conditions and charge at 50kw now for well under £30k, and I'd argue that's viable for the vast majority of people. Not ideal perhaps, but viable. Will mass-produced solid state batteries happen? Probably but I don't see them being the main type of battery until EVs already make up the majority of the market anyway.
There are concerns for me, in terms of weight as a heavy car will wear out roads faster and God knows they don't repair them now.
My second principal concern is actually increased use and filling up the roads. Once EVs proliferate, I can't help thinking that mileage will be less of an issue, the car will become an appliance and the "cheaper" cost of journeys will lead us back to a 1950s mentality where everybody will be out on day trips so more wear on roads, more clogging of roads etc.
High cost may also mean people keep these EVs far longer or perhaps leasing will just become universal.
My second principal concern is actually increased use and filling up the roads. Once EVs proliferate, I can't help thinking that mileage will be less of an issue, the car will become an appliance and the "cheaper" cost of journeys will lead us back to a 1950s mentality where everybody will be out on day trips so more wear on roads, more clogging of roads etc.
High cost may also mean people keep these EVs far longer or perhaps leasing will just become universal.
fblm said:
Proper buttons and switches not stupid frigging screens! Yay! It's a car not a Mac Store.
I'm somewhat surprised this seems to be the only comment on this! It's really really good to see a manufacturer releasing a car in 2021 that has buttons for some things, because for some things buttons really are the best solution.
Other than that, this seems to be a cool car but not so relevant to me. It looks lovely and sleek and I'm sure that range will be more than enough for most owners, so happy days! I'll stick with my Honda e that arrives in the next couple of weeks
LuS1fer said:
My second principal concern is actually increased use and filling up the roads. Once EVs proliferate, I can't help thinking that mileage will be less of an issue, the car will become an appliance and the "cheaper" cost of journeys will lead us back to a 1950s mentality where everybody will be out on day trips so more wear on roads, more clogging of roads etc.
By the time EVs are the dominant form of transport, the price of running them will be at least on a par with the cost of running a petrol car today. Now the government will achieve that is up for debate, but it's got to happen. In terms of purchace price; battery price per unit charge has been roughly halving every 4 years for ages. Assuming that continues, the cost of an EV drivetrain with a ~200 mile range will fall below that of a comparable modern ICE drivetrain (by which I mean the sort of thing you'd find in the same size of car, not of comparable performance) within the next four years.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 3rd March 11:22
runnerbean 14 said:
A lovely car, but still not good enough. Look at the size and weight of the thing! Who wants to be lugging round half a ton extra over the Tesla Model 3, which has similar performance, more range and dimensions suited to to UK roads. Not to mention a better charging infrastructure.
Whilst I could justify a Taycan or one of these, and though I'm far from a Tesla fanboi (much lower build quality) as a device for getting from A to B and also for enjoyment I'd still pick the Model 3. I continue to marvel at the Model 3's packaging, and an incidental benefit is that the Tesla's depreciation will be a fraction of the others - depreciation being the main ownership cost of any electric car.
Your preference for a smaller car doesn't make this Audi bad. It's like saying the BMW 6 series 4-door is rubbish just because you prefer the smaller size and weight of a 340d. And that the depreciation will be lower on the 340d because it's cheaper than the 6 series...Whilst I could justify a Taycan or one of these, and though I'm far from a Tesla fanboi (much lower build quality) as a device for getting from A to B and also for enjoyment I'd still pick the Model 3. I continue to marvel at the Model 3's packaging, and an incidental benefit is that the Tesla's depreciation will be a fraction of the others - depreciation being the main ownership cost of any electric car.
runnerbean 14 said:
A lovely car, but still not good enough. Look at the size and weight of the thing! Who wants to be lugging round half a ton extra over the Tesla Model 3, which has similar performance, more range and dimensions suited to to UK roads. Not to mention a better charging infrastructure.
Whilst I could justify a Taycan or one of these, and though I'm far from a Tesla fanboi (much lower build quality) as a device for getting from A to B and also for enjoyment I'd still pick the Model 3. I continue to marvel at the Model 3's packaging, and an incidental benefit is that the Tesla's depreciation will be a fraction of the others - depreciation being the main ownership cost of any electric car.
The fact that it is NOT a Tesla, will be more than enough for many.Whilst I could justify a Taycan or one of these, and though I'm far from a Tesla fanboi (much lower build quality) as a device for getting from A to B and also for enjoyment I'd still pick the Model 3. I continue to marvel at the Model 3's packaging, and an incidental benefit is that the Tesla's depreciation will be a fraction of the others - depreciation being the main ownership cost of any electric car.
kambites said:
runnerbean 14 said:
Ahonen said:
0.24 is an astonishing drag coefficient for something with such a large frontal area and massive tyres.
I think you may be confusing Cd with CdA.
Frontal area has minimal effect on coefficient of drag. Is weight that big a deal for most of us? This thing is NEVER going to see a track day at the hands of anyone outside of the motoring press and it will sit going up and down motorways at high speed in comfort and silence so lets not get stuck on what it's actually designed for....no one ever complains that a Range Rover is terrible as a track car or a Caterham makes a terrible monster truck.
kambites said:
LuS1fer said:
My second principal concern is actually increased use and filling up the roads. Once EVs proliferate, I can't help thinking that mileage will be less of an issue, the car will become an appliance and the "cheaper" cost of journeys will lead us back to a 1950s mentality where everybody will be out on day trips so more wear on roads, more clogging of roads etc.
By the time EVs are the dominant form of transport, the price of running them will be at least on a par with the cost of running a petrol car today. Now the government will achieve that is up for debate, but it's got to happen. In terms of purchace price; battery price per unit charge has been roughly halving every 4 years for ages. Assuming that continues, the cost of an EV drivetrain with a ~200 mile range will fall below that of a comparable modern ICE drivetrain (by which I mean the sort of thing you'd find in the same size of car, not of comparable performance) within the next four years.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 3rd March 11:22
One of the best looking front ends from an EV I've seen yet. The Mach-E looks gopping like they got to the grill and thought "f
k it, lets just fill it in, no one will notice". The Taycan looks like its got prison tattoos of tears. The Tesla 3 & S are just dull.
It actually looks like they designed something rather than threw on an after thought or didn't bother.
k it, lets just fill it in, no one will notice". The Taycan looks like its got prison tattoos of tears. The Tesla 3 & S are just dull. It actually looks like they designed something rather than threw on an after thought or didn't bother.
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