RE: New Mercedes-AMG C63 confirmed as 650hp hybrid
Discussion
I don't see much appeal in modern V8s anyway - brash, tuneless things with programmed in character. But these complex hybrids with stressed engines will be in the bin in 10 years. Zero appeal. No chance of them growing old gracefully, or even growing old.
Simple electric cars can't come fast enough, but you can trust the German manufacturers to design them in such a way that the body has to be removed to fix a motor. "We've cast the motor into the same casing as the shock absorber, it improves aerodynamic efficiency at 170mph by 0.003%". f
k off.
All in the name of efficiency right? What efficiency? Passing one irrelevant test?
Simple electric cars can't come fast enough, but you can trust the German manufacturers to design them in such a way that the body has to be removed to fix a motor. "We've cast the motor into the same casing as the shock absorber, it improves aerodynamic efficiency at 170mph by 0.003%". f
k off. All in the name of efficiency right? What efficiency? Passing one irrelevant test?
These will be great cars until the warranty expires, by which time their complex systems will be out dated anyway.
I have no doubt things will change rapidly over the next 5 years which makes me think cars like this will have very little value in the near future.
I'm no Mecedes fan boy, but V8's do sound bloody lovely and it's the real deal too, nothing artificial at all. You either get the V8 thing or you don't .
I have no doubt things will change rapidly over the next 5 years which makes me think cars like this will have very little value in the near future.
I'm no Mecedes fan boy, but V8's do sound bloody lovely and it's the real deal too, nothing artificial at all. You either get the V8 thing or you don't .
Edited by mfp4073 on Wednesday 31st March 10:20
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
s2000db said:
Sad development..
Can someone tell me what’s the point of hybrids? Aside from being able to throw ‘low’ consumption/emission results under test conditions, they don’t really deliver under ‘most’ real-world scenarios.
Surely high efficiency petrol/diesel, or all electric drivetrains are the only practical alternatives currently?
Because many car journeys are short trips, and for short trips when you can basically use exclusively electric power they are more efficient than ICE only, by some margin. Thought everyone knew that?Can someone tell me what’s the point of hybrids? Aside from being able to throw ‘low’ consumption/emission results under test conditions, they don’t really deliver under ‘most’ real-world scenarios.
Surely high efficiency petrol/diesel, or all electric drivetrains are the only practical alternatives currently?
Thanks for the rest of your comments guys...
Filibuster said:
I really fo wonder wether it wouldn‘t have been better if they would have gotten from V8 to fully electric.
The Taycan is a fabulous car and I’d have one over 4 pot Hybrid AMG (says the owner of a 4 pot Hybrid in form of a Volvo V90 T8).
You'll have to wait until at least 2024 for a fully electric C class based upon the MMA platform. Nothing happening before then. The Taycan is a fabulous car and I’d have one over 4 pot Hybrid AMG (says the owner of a 4 pot Hybrid in form of a Volvo V90 T8).
Bright Halo said:
When the glorious 6.2 N/A was replaced with the 4.0 turbo many including myself thought it a sad day but the C63 survived and thrived.
I am sure it will do the same with this new evolution. You hold the tide back although we can still enjoy moaning about it.
Exactly. People adapt to changing times, but some just can't adapt and want everything to stay the same forever. I am sure it will do the same with this new evolution. You hold the tide back although we can still enjoy moaning about it.
Speed1283 said:
Electric assistance aside, part of me does wonder just how much more fuel efficient/emissions friendly a 400bhp 2 cylinder is compared to a V8?
I'm sure on lab tests it will be better though, which is where it counts for the regulations.
Shame they couldn't at least go to a 6 cylinder rather than straight to 4.
Not enough room in new C class for a 6 cylinder, from engine bay dimensions perspective. I'm sure on lab tests it will be better though, which is where it counts for the regulations.
Shame they couldn't at least go to a 6 cylinder rather than straight to 4.
s2000db said:
Sad development..
Can someone tell me what’s the point of hybrids? Aside from being able to throw ‘low’ consumption/emission results under test conditions, they don’t really deliver under ‘most’ real-world scenarios.
Surely high efficiency petrol/diesel, or all electric drivetrains are the only practical alternatives currently?
Weirdly the pandemic has brought about the perfect scenario for our PHEV - when Wales was in it's "stay local" We hardly used up the battery range of our 330e 18-26 (depending on the temps) and even when I take it to work it's now clocking 59.2mpg.Can someone tell me what’s the point of hybrids? Aside from being able to throw ‘low’ consumption/emission results under test conditions, they don’t really deliver under ‘most’ real-world scenarios.
Surely high efficiency petrol/diesel, or all electric drivetrains are the only practical alternatives currently?
Yes of course the main reason it was bought was the BIK incentive but it has worked for us and our fuel costs have dipped by more than double the extra cost has been added to our electricity bill.
For all the shorts tips it's just electricity being used and as long as each long trip has one full charge then the economics of it seem to work out ok - with a charge at each end it just makes it even sweeter, especially if it's one of the free charge points that have cropped up.
I'd also argue that the mid range acceleration 60-100mph is probably quicker in the 330e than it was in the 330d.
Oilchange said:
I wonder if this will come back to bite them. I mean, the engine is a large ‘part’ of a sports car isn’t it?
er, an AMG is a sports car? really? How come i've never seen one getting driven in a sporty manner? I only see them noisly race away from the traffic lights in a straight line in 2nd, and that's it. Far too big and heavy and aloof to be a sports car.......IanJ9375 said:
I'd also argue that the mid range acceleration 60-100mph is probably quicker in the 330e than it was in the 330d.
I'm not sure about that claim. Assistance from the electric motor in the 330e (and a lot of PHEVs) is only up to a certain speed. Once you are at higher motorway speeds, it's just the combustion engine. s2000db said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
s2000db said:
Sad development..
Can someone tell me what’s the point of hybrids? Aside from being able to throw ‘low’ consumption/emission results under test conditions, they don’t really deliver under ‘most’ real-world scenarios.
Surely high efficiency petrol/diesel, or all electric drivetrains are the only practical alternatives currently?
Because many car journeys are short trips, and for short trips when you can basically use exclusively electric power they are more efficient than ICE only, by some margin. Thought everyone knew that?Can someone tell me what’s the point of hybrids? Aside from being able to throw ‘low’ consumption/emission results under test conditions, they don’t really deliver under ‘most’ real-world scenarios.
Surely high efficiency petrol/diesel, or all electric drivetrains are the only practical alternatives currently?
Thanks for the rest of your comments guys...
But all that said, I still have no interest whatsoever in a four cylinder C63!
raspy said:
Exactly. People adapt to changing times, but some just can't adapt and want everything to stay the same forever.
This seems to be the one for all argument in car discussions of the present to prove all critics wrong. Change happens and that is ok, but there still is good and bad change. At the moment all i see is added complexity, added weight and use of resources, the loss of another iconic engine while having an unproven and highly debatable effect on real world CO2 emissions. I want fun cars with less CO2, this change feels like the opposite.
And yes, i have driven SL55s, C63 AMGs and high powered 4 cylinder cars (but no A45) and almost bought a CLK55 just for the V8 (the W209 CLK around it is a horrible thing).
Edited by ae2006 on Wednesday 31st March 10:52
MountainsofSussex said:
What the hell is going on with the packaging of the back axle/inverter/charger? It all looks very last decade and is about twice the size of what you'd see on a model 3 or even an ipace. Not going to be great for fitting dogs and bikes into the estate version!
That's the battery on top of the motor. Also that display is half a car with a mirror down the centre.
MountainsofSussex said:
What the hell is going on with the packaging of the back axle/inverter/charger? It all looks very last decade and is about twice the size of what you'd see on a model 3 or even an ipace. Not going to be great for fitting dogs and bikes into the estate version!
Hybrids are compromise city! An Tesla M3 or Jag iPace are both ground up designed BEVs and that shows. The problem with this merc is that the front is full of ICE, and the back full of battery, inverter and motor. There is no where else in the design space to put those items.
SweptVolume said:
So it's lugging around a gearbox that is illegal to use on UK roads. And they're forced to do this supposedly to help the environmental situation 
er, what? it will change into the higher gear at 87 mph under full load. Under part load it'll be in 2nd all the time.This is no different to say 8th gear in a normal autobox, which will never get selected under WOT, but is used a lot of the time in lower load driving
ae2006 said:
the loss of another iconic engine while having an unproven and highly debatable effect on real world CO2 emissions.
unproven? highly debatable?Are you still in 2003?
A v8 AMG will return about 20mpg in normal road use. Drive this hybrid in the same conditions and it'll do more than 40 mpg.
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