RE: New Mercedes-AMG C63 confirmed as 650hp hybrid
Discussion
Krikkit said:
T1berious said:
As stated in an earlier post this looks like a use during warranty car and shift before it expires. Honestly, an EV would be less complex.
We knew it was coming and to be fair, in less than a decade new ICE cars will be banned from many countries in Europe, so a hybrid is the way to go.
Still sounds like a borkage nightmare come 6 years old.
Does it? The current 4-pot engine in the A45 is pretty unburstable, hybrid tech is by its very nature pretty hardy. The rest is all proven technology in various forms.We knew it was coming and to be fair, in less than a decade new ICE cars will be banned from many countries in Europe, so a hybrid is the way to go.
Still sounds like a borkage nightmare come 6 years old.
Nothing in this car is completely new technology, and Mercedes have one of the most rigorous powertrain testing standards of all manufacturers, which is why they often get tuned to high heaven.
Fundamentally there is an enormous amount to go wrong here, and when it starts to happen, the very best of luck to you.
Mackofthejungle said:
I don't see much appeal in modern V8s anyway - brash, tuneless things with programmed in character. But these complex hybrids with stressed engines will be in the bin in 10 years. Zero appeal. No chance of them growing old gracefully, or even growing old.
Simple electric cars can't come fast enough, but you can trust the German manufacturers to design them in such a way that the body has to be removed to fix a motor. "We've cast the motor into the same casing as the shock absorber, it improves aerodynamic efficiency at 170mph by 0.003%". f
k off.
All in the name of efficiency right? What efficiency? Passing one irrelevant test?
I’m pretty much with you on all of that, the turbo AMGs seem overwhelmingly tuned to just make noise, even though it’s a very poor imitation of a 60s muscle car. Programmed in ‘character’ as you say. Simple electric cars can't come fast enough, but you can trust the German manufacturers to design them in such a way that the body has to be removed to fix a motor. "We've cast the motor into the same casing as the shock absorber, it improves aerodynamic efficiency at 170mph by 0.003%". f
k off. All in the name of efficiency right? What efficiency? Passing one irrelevant test?
It is in the name of efficiency but driven purely by clumsy legislation.
My only takeaway from all of this, is the fact that Merc can reliably get c.450hp from a 2.0ltr 4-cyl. That's the real engineering achievement. I remember not so long ago, people I knew getting that kind of power from a 2.0l Sub or Lancer engine were essentially juggling a grenade under the bonnet. Something was always going wrong/needing to be upgraded.
Although I must say - I've heard a few things recently about manufacturers looking at moving back towards larger capacity engines as they were able to make them more efficient...I guess Mercedes aren't part of that school of thought.
Although I must say - I've heard a few things recently about manufacturers looking at moving back towards larger capacity engines as they were able to make them more efficient...I guess Mercedes aren't part of that school of thought.
F20CN16 said:
MountainsofSussex said:
What the hell is going on with the packaging of the back axle/inverter/charger? It all looks very last decade and is about twice the size of what you'd see on a model 3 or even an ipace. Not going to be great for fitting dogs and bikes into the estate version!
That's the battery on top of the motor. Also that display is half a car with a mirror down the centre.
Max_Torque said:
unproven? highly debatable?
Are you still in 2003?
A v8 AMG will return about 20mpg in normal road use. Drive this hybrid in the same conditions and it'll do more than 40 mpg.
To get to 40mpg we would need to double the efficiency of an A45 with the hybrid system.Are you still in 2003?
A v8 AMG will return about 20mpg in normal road use. Drive this hybrid in the same conditions and it'll do more than 40 mpg.
Data from Spritmonitor.de (community based fuel consumption) in l/100km for an A45 AMG and C63 both from 2015 onward:
We have an avarage consumption of 10,67 l/100km (22mpg) for the A45 and 13,18 l/100km (18mpg) for the C63. The C63 has ca. +120hp, weighs up to 400kg more than the A-Class and needs 2,5 l/100km extra.
For the new car:
The 4 Cylinder has even more power and it could be 500kgs heavier than an A45, in pure petrol driving it will use just as much fuel as the C63 now. Electric driving could help, but the battery is tiny. Factor in the extra resources needed, the battery and maybe a reduced lifetime things are not so clear anymore.
Maybe my words were a bit over the top but we should at least have a very close look if this new technology is as good as they say.
Edited by ae2006 on Wednesday 31st March 12:12
MountainsofSussex said:
F20CN16 said:
MountainsofSussex said:
What the hell is going on with the packaging of the back axle/inverter/charger? It all looks very last decade and is about twice the size of what you'd see on a model 3 or even an ipace. Not going to be great for fitting dogs and bikes into the estate version!
That's the battery on top of the motor. Also that display is half a car with a mirror down the centre.
The appeal of AMGs used to be all about the driving experience and the character given by brutish, over-the-top powertrains that would happily vapourise the rear tyres at every opportunity. This new model looks set to be just another sterile AWD hybrid (no doubt with those utterly tragic contrived gearchange farts). Yes, AWD will give it massive traction and it'll have a ton of "usable performance" but I'd argue that's actually the last thing we actually need on a road car. - To make it feel anything other than ordinary you're going to have to drive it even faster and harder than previous models, at which point the average owner will be looong out of talent.
Also, if you can afford one of these - the price is certain to be much higher (relative to salaries, which is what matters) than they used to be - what is the cost of the extra petrol a V8 uses to you? Probably pocket change. So you sacrifice the car's character for what? Just so you can still lose a drag race to some IT dork in a Tesla?
Oh well...at least the burglars that break in to your house for it can make a silent getaway, I suppose.
Also, if you can afford one of these - the price is certain to be much higher (relative to salaries, which is what matters) than they used to be - what is the cost of the extra petrol a V8 uses to you? Probably pocket change. So you sacrifice the car's character for what? Just so you can still lose a drag race to some IT dork in a Tesla?
Oh well...at least the burglars that break in to your house for it can make a silent getaway, I suppose.
Edited by Clivey on Wednesday 31st March 12:07
Integrator_Type_R said:
Putting aside the demise of the V8, is there any chance this 4 cylinder could have some kind of offset cross-plane crankshaft ala Yamaha R1 of the last few years, which could give it a slightly more exotic V4 MotoGP kinda sound?
Good point, the old Subaru Impreza was a unique sounding 4 pot as well. Alternatively why not an even lighter 3 pot 2 litre with a characteristic burble?s2000db said:
It’ll also be interesting to know what the performance figures of this car will be with a fully charged battery, and with an empty battery...
Surely after a few miles of spirited hooning (for which this car is supposedly designed for), you’ll be running on petrol alone??
The battery in a plug-in hybrid never gets fully discharged, it always has a bit left to assist the engine. on top of that with a few miles of spirited hooning if it has a decent regeneration system then you'll get something back in the battery. However overall you are right, plug in hybrids tend to perform best when fully charged. Surely after a few miles of spirited hooning (for which this car is supposedly designed for), you’ll be running on petrol alone??
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