RE: Mercedes EQS revealed with 478-mile range
Discussion
Yes the paint job is questionable but when it comes to retail and it is available in the usual colour schemes we are used to I can see these doing very well and ultimately it's notmal for Mercedes to introduce their latest tech into the flagship models and then filter it down to the other lower versions.
I haven't been a fan of electric cars particularly so far, Tesla as a brand doesn't do anything for me but seeing what Porsche and now Mercedes are doing is making me very interested, I look forward to seeing the more mainstream (cheaper) versions appearing.
I haven't been a fan of electric cars particularly so far, Tesla as a brand doesn't do anything for me but seeing what Porsche and now Mercedes are doing is making me very interested, I look forward to seeing the more mainstream (cheaper) versions appearing.
AmitG said:
driveontheleft said:
478 miles? Is this why Jag bailed on the electric XJ?
I was thinking similar. This is what the electric XJ would have been competing against.This market will be one where it is difficult to differentiate from a very strong competitor.
Taycan and Audi are covering the 4 door coupe market, Tesla are covering VFM, range and performance, Mercedes are covering luxury. At best you might be able to claim to be second best at everything.
raspy said:
Monkeylegend said:
A quick scan of the Mercedes dedicated forums will show some of the issues they are having here and in the States.
I have had five Mercedes over the last 20 years none of which caused any issues. That all seems to have changed with the introduction of hybrid and adblue technology, and this latest electric technology does not fill me with a great deal of confidence.
Stories on forums are not representative. How many owners of any brand post on forums to say "I just had a month of problem free motoring!"? I have had five Mercedes over the last 20 years none of which caused any issues. That all seems to have changed with the introduction of hybrid and adblue technology, and this latest electric technology does not fill me with a great deal of confidence.
People often post when they have an issue, so you can't extrapolate much from looking at forums. Yes, you can see there are issues, but you can't see the true prevalence of such issues, all you'll end up with is the perceived risk, not the actual risk.
If you know of any hard data that shows what proportion of UK Merc hybrid/BEV cars have problems with the battery, I would love to see that data.
Just hope if you buy one you dont have to replace the battery pack out of warranty because if you do the car will be a financial write off at 6 years old or so.
Monkeylegend said:
Doesn't matter if you believe me or not, the evidence is there if you wish to find it. People didn't believe Mercedes also used cheat devices similar to VW until they discovered they did.
Just hope if you buy one you dont have to replace the battery pack out of warranty because if you do the car will be a financial write off at 6 years old or so.
I'm not saying I don't believe you that some cars have had issues. Just hope if you buy one you dont have to replace the battery pack out of warranty because if you do the car will be a financial write off at 6 years old or so.
I'm just saying that if you're going to make claims about MB hybrid/battery reliability, show me some concrete evidence that is based upon all the MB hybrids/EVs sold in this country, rather than tell me to look for anecdotal evidence somewhere on the internet.
If the data existed that showed something like X% of all MB hybrids/EVs sold in this country to date have had battery problems, you would have shared it, I hope.
If that data hasn't been collected or made public, then the risk of MB hybrid/EV batteries failing hasn't actually been quantified, has it?
raspy said:
Monkeylegend said:
Doesn't matter if you believe me or not, the evidence is there if you wish to find it. People didn't believe Mercedes also used cheat devices similar to VW until they discovered they did.
Just hope if you buy one you dont have to replace the battery pack out of warranty because if you do the car will be a financial write off at 6 years old or so.
I'm not saying I don't believe you that some cars have had issues. Just hope if you buy one you dont have to replace the battery pack out of warranty because if you do the car will be a financial write off at 6 years old or so.
I'm just saying that if you're going to make claims about MB hybrid/battery reliability, show me some concrete evidence that is based upon all the MB hybrids/EVs sold in this country, rather than tell me to look for anecdotal evidence somewhere on the internet.
If the data existed that showed something like X% of all MB hybrids/EVs sold in this country to date have had battery problems, you would have shared it, I hope.
If that data hasn't been collected or made public, then the risk of MB hybrid/EV batteries failing hasn't actually been quantified, has it?
ks which to be fair I usually am I would rather not be one of the guinea pigs on this new one though but hopefully my fears are unfounded.
That drag co-efficiency is genuinely impressive - and achieved with conventional door mirrors too - and I'm sure the implied serenity of a slippery silent BEV will appeal to the luxury market but I'm confused by the generous glass area infront of the setback c-pillar incumbent with such a relentless focus on the Cda; I thought luxury was being able to hide behind c-pillars?
Bencolem said:
That drag co-efficiency is genuinely impressive - and achieved with conventional door mirrors too - and I'm sure the implied serenity of a slippery silent BEV will appeal to the luxury market but I'm confused by the generous glass area infront of the setback c-pillar incumbent with such a relentless focus on the Cda; I thought luxury was being able to hide behind c-pillars?
Third best production car?steveb8189 said:
"46.4GB per second RAM memory bandwidth"
As a bit of a techie this a very strange quote. Sure, it kind of makes sense but it's not a spec you'd ever read on anything! I'm also not quite sure how they achieve it with DDR4-3200 being 25.6GB per second.
DDR5-5800 / 64 lane GDDR5 at 725MHz / some variation of n channel/lane (G)DDRx underclocked to keep the heat down?As a bit of a techie this a very strange quote. Sure, it kind of makes sense but it's not a spec you'd ever read on anything! I'm also not quite sure how they achieve it with DDR4-3200 being 25.6GB per second.
Back to the car: not for me, and I have to observe that the 141cm dash screen is the same width as all of my first car (an original mini).
BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
Pretty impressive statement car. And you can imagine that most of the tech ( and range ) will be in a cheaper e class equivalent in 5 years or so. And that most of the other car manufacturers will have something similar out.
Makes you then wonder how Tesla can be worth more than the top 7 or 8 car makers COMBINED. ( Or whatever it is today ... )
Pretty simple to build the stack up.Makes you then wonder how Tesla can be worth more than the top 7 or 8 car makers COMBINED. ( Or whatever it is today ... )
1: Tesla's EVs still have a performance, range and cost advantage. UK pricing (tariffs, plus RHD, plus demand pricing) gives a false impression of this compared to the relative cost in America or China.
2: Tesla is growing at a rate of 45% a year and all ready has a capacity to produce 1,1000,000 cars. Follow this forward and by 2027 they are the worlds largest car maker by volume, they will be the largest by turnover by 2025.
3. None of the legacy car markers is expanding the supply of EVs at a comparable rate, not least because now nobody else has as much access to capital. Furthermore Tesla is building its factories, faster and cheaper than the rest of the industry.
4: There is a very real chance that the knowledge all new cars will be EVs in 10 years will kill demand for ICE cars in the next 5 years before the rest of the industry can produce those EVs to replace their ICE sales. Tesla will be ready with those EV's, see above for it's much bigger ambitions.
5: The incumbents have their fixed cost, factories, pensions, how well will they handle having to re-tool all their factories while their income is simultaneously cut by a substantial amount. The knowledge that the switch to EVs with hammer a fair proportion of legacy automotive is depressing their share prices.
6: Autonomy, Tesla are getting pretty close to cracking it (see FSB beta) as they have 1.5 million cars out there paying for the privilege of supplying them data. If they crack it first and then licence the software at £1000 per car and capture 80% of the market that business would have a value of ~$2 trillion. See similar valuations for operating an autonomous taxi service.
7: Energy's likely end point is that global electrical energy storage will end up being in the region of 1 days global total energy usage. Tesla will capture a decent percentage of this market, this business would have a value in the region of $1-2 trillion.
8: The flexibility and talent. Tesla is run by it's chief engineer who is also its biggest share holder. This means that it can flex it's strategy, enter new markets (e.g. autonomy they were doing nothing in this field pre 2015) at the drop of a hat. As the most desirable global company (google surveys) for engineers to work at it's not short of talent. One of the wall street analysts now a converted Tesla bull described this element of the business as it bringing a machine gun to a knife fight.
9: As everybody else builds EVs they make EVs acceptable to a whole load more people. Which then leads to many of these people going to buy a Tesla when they check out the performance, tech and charging network
10: Tesla is a moving target, by the time recently announced Tesla competitors are actually in production Tesla will be rolling out the Model S Plaid, a Model 3 with 100KWh and the Cybertruck with a 200KWh battery.
TLDR:
1: It's not a car company, it's an AI and energy company with a 10 year value of up to $5-10 trillion is all its bets pay off, or $2 trillion if only a few do.
2: It is growing exponentially despite now being a large car manufacturer
3: It makes decisions boldly and fast because the CEO is also the chief engineer and the owner
4: VW is copying, as are a few Chinese companies who obviously have the support of the mercantilist Chinese state - everybody else is probably in some amount of trouble.
5: Does the fact that an Android phone is pretty much as good as an IPhone stop Apple having a substantial minority of the market while making a majority of the profit in the smart phone space.
Edited by Talksteer on Friday 16th April 18:40
I think we've found Elon's PH account.
It's been 4.5 years since he proclaimed that a Tesla will do a coast to coast trip sans driver. Robotaxis in 2018,2019,2020?
They might be growing but they rely on Stellaris for profits. Or are they going to make up for it in volume.
It's been 4.5 years since he proclaimed that a Tesla will do a coast to coast trip sans driver. Robotaxis in 2018,2019,2020?
They might be growing but they rely on Stellaris for profits. Or are they going to make up for it in volume.
Talksteer said:
As everybody else builds EVs they make EVs acceptable to a whole load more people. Which then leads to many of these people going to buy a Tesla when they check out the performance, tech and charging network
Once Lexus or Mercedes nail togoether a decent car who is going to buy a Tesla with several shades of paint on the outside?Talksteer said:
Pretty simple to build the stack up.
1: Tesla's EVs still have a performance, range and cost advantage. UK pricing (tariffs, plus RHD, plus demand pricing) gives a false impression of this compared to the relative cost in America or China.
2: Tesla is growing at a rate of 45% a year and all ready has a capacity to produce 1,1000,000 cars. Follow this forward and by 2027 they are the worlds largest car maker by volume, they will be the largest by turnover by 2025.
3. None of the legacy car markers is expanding the supply of EVs at a comparable rate, not least because now nobody else has as much access to capital. Furthermore Tesla is building its factories, faster and cheaper than the rest of the industry.
4: There is a very real chance that the knowledge all new cars will be EVs in 10 years will kill demand for ICE cars in the next 5 years before the rest of the industry can produce those EVs to replace their ICE sales. Tesla will be ready with those EV's, see above for it's much bigger ambitions.
5: The incumbents have their fixed cost, factories, pensions, how well will they handle having to re-tool all their factories while their income is simultaneously cut by a substantial amount. The knowledge that the switch to EVs with hammer a fair proportion of legacy automotive is depressing their share prices.
6: Autonomy, Tesla are getting pretty close to cracking it (see FSB beta) as they have 1.5 million cars out there paying for the privilege of supplying them data. If they crack it first and then licence the software at £1000 per car and capture 80% of the market that business would have a value of ~$2 trillion. See similar valuations for operating an autonomous taxi service.
7: Energy's likely end point is that global electrical energy storage will end up being in the region of 1 days global total energy usage. Tesla will capture a decent percentage of this market, this business would have a value in the region of $1-2 trillion.
8: The flexibility and talent. Tesla is run by it's chief engineer who is also its biggest share holder. This means that it can flex it's strategy, enter new markets (e.g. autonomy they were doing nothing in this field pre 2015) at the drop of a hat. As the most desirable global company (google surveys) for engineers to work at it's not short of talent. One of the wall street analysts now a converted Tesla bull described this element of the business as it bringing a machine gun to a knife fight.
9: As everybody else builds EVs they make EVs acceptable to a whole load more people. Which then leads to many of these people going to buy a Tesla when they check out the performance, tech and charging network
10: Tesla is a moving target, by the time recently announced Tesla competitors are actually in production Tesla will be rolling out the Model S Plaid, a Model 3 with 100KWh and the Cybertruck with a 200KWh battery.
TLDR:
1: It's not a car company, it's an AI and energy company with a 10 year value of up to $5-10 trillion is all its bets pay off, or $2 trillion if only a few do.
2: It is growing exponentially despite now being a large car manufacturer
3: It makes decisions boldly and fast because the CEO is also the chief engineer and the owner
4: VW is copying, as are a few Chinese companies who obviously have the support of the mercantilist Chinese state - everybody else is probably in some amount of trouble.
5: Does the fact that an Android phone is pretty much as good as an IPhone stop Apple having a substantial minority of the market while making a majority of the profit in the smart phone space.
You articulate your points very well, but it's obvious you don't work in the automotive industry, and that you're not familiar with what the traditional OEMs or the new start ups are doing. I'm going to guess that you're an engineer Tesla fanboi who's best friend is Google? 1: Tesla's EVs still have a performance, range and cost advantage. UK pricing (tariffs, plus RHD, plus demand pricing) gives a false impression of this compared to the relative cost in America or China.
2: Tesla is growing at a rate of 45% a year and all ready has a capacity to produce 1,1000,000 cars. Follow this forward and by 2027 they are the worlds largest car maker by volume, they will be the largest by turnover by 2025.
3. None of the legacy car markers is expanding the supply of EVs at a comparable rate, not least because now nobody else has as much access to capital. Furthermore Tesla is building its factories, faster and cheaper than the rest of the industry.
4: There is a very real chance that the knowledge all new cars will be EVs in 10 years will kill demand for ICE cars in the next 5 years before the rest of the industry can produce those EVs to replace their ICE sales. Tesla will be ready with those EV's, see above for it's much bigger ambitions.
5: The incumbents have their fixed cost, factories, pensions, how well will they handle having to re-tool all their factories while their income is simultaneously cut by a substantial amount. The knowledge that the switch to EVs with hammer a fair proportion of legacy automotive is depressing their share prices.
6: Autonomy, Tesla are getting pretty close to cracking it (see FSB beta) as they have 1.5 million cars out there paying for the privilege of supplying them data. If they crack it first and then licence the software at £1000 per car and capture 80% of the market that business would have a value of ~$2 trillion. See similar valuations for operating an autonomous taxi service.
7: Energy's likely end point is that global electrical energy storage will end up being in the region of 1 days global total energy usage. Tesla will capture a decent percentage of this market, this business would have a value in the region of $1-2 trillion.
8: The flexibility and talent. Tesla is run by it's chief engineer who is also its biggest share holder. This means that it can flex it's strategy, enter new markets (e.g. autonomy they were doing nothing in this field pre 2015) at the drop of a hat. As the most desirable global company (google surveys) for engineers to work at it's not short of talent. One of the wall street analysts now a converted Tesla bull described this element of the business as it bringing a machine gun to a knife fight.
9: As everybody else builds EVs they make EVs acceptable to a whole load more people. Which then leads to many of these people going to buy a Tesla when they check out the performance, tech and charging network
10: Tesla is a moving target, by the time recently announced Tesla competitors are actually in production Tesla will be rolling out the Model S Plaid, a Model 3 with 100KWh and the Cybertruck with a 200KWh battery.
TLDR:
1: It's not a car company, it's an AI and energy company with a 10 year value of up to $5-10 trillion is all its bets pay off, or $2 trillion if only a few do.
2: It is growing exponentially despite now being a large car manufacturer
3: It makes decisions boldly and fast because the CEO is also the chief engineer and the owner
4: VW is copying, as are a few Chinese companies who obviously have the support of the mercantilist Chinese state - everybody else is probably in some amount of trouble.
5: Does the fact that an Android phone is pretty much as good as an IPhone stop Apple having a substantial minority of the market while making a majority of the profit in the smart phone space.
Edited by Talksteer on Friday 16th April 18:40
As an Auto consultant, I've been in and out of Fremont since it was the old Toyota/GM facility, and I wouldn't touch anything that Tesla produce there, the production standards are truly shocking.
If it was my money. I'd be betting on those pesky Koreans in Kia/Hyundai.
Schermerhorn said:
The only way Elon Musk is making money these days is manipulating crypto currency prices it seems....
All these new offerings from Mercedes, Porsche et al seem to be smashing anything Tesla offers.
At £100k I completely agree. That's not the key battleground though?All these new offerings from Mercedes, Porsche et al seem to be smashing anything Tesla offers.
Where are the Germans in the £40-60k market they've always dominated? Honest question as I'd happily swap my Tesla for a better built German alternative if they can offer a compelling package.
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